wolc123

You betcha. That is why I am interesting in gathering more semi-meaningless data from folks with scales. Did you ever measure any of your's ? It would be interesting if we could find even a single case where the deer's dressed weight was lighter than predicted by the PA chest-girth chart. As I have said repeatedly, I don't place a whole lot of value on a deer's dressed weight, since most of it constists of water which has zero nutritional value. A few folks on here seem quite fixated on it however, even offering me a free scale a time or two. "Volume" of venison is what is important to me.

There were a lot of antlerless deer around my in-laws place in WMU 6c this weekend. Saturday morning, I left their house for the woods a little after 7 am. They took pictures of three, eating the birdseed below their back deck, at 9:00 am. All I saw in the woods that morning were lots of tracks. That afternoon, I hunted a bit closer to the house and saw a single antlerless deer walking thru the woods at 3 pm, that never offered me good shot. This morning, I got to my favorite late-season spot up there (about a mile away) at about 7:00 am. Sunrise was 7:23, and at 7:45, I saw a single antlerless deer, moving slowly through the pines. I was standing in a little clump of cover, When she stopped, 60 yards away, I thought I had a clear shot at her front shoulder. I centered the crosshairs on her shoulder blade and fired. I was surprised to see her run out of the plume of smoke, along with two other antlerless deer. I reloaded and walked over to where she had stood, finding no blood or hair. I followed the three sets of tracks a ways, finding no blood in the powdery snow. Returning to the spot where I had fired, I noted a branch in the path of the bullet, with a cut across the top where the bullet must have struck, probably deflecting it away from the intended target. About 15 minutes later, another antlerless deer approached, but never offered an "extremely" clear shot, so I passed. I know this area pretty good, having hunted it for the last 7 years After a couple more hours, I circled around, and still-hunted into the wind, thru the area where they usually bed. I jumped (4) antlerless deer up there (a group of (3) and a single). Each one appeared perfectly healthy, and none offered a good shot. I am fairly certain that the doe I missed was the leader of the group that had been feeding at my in-laws house. That was my last hunt up there for the year. At least the in-laws will still have the entertainment of watching the deer clean up the spilled birdseed below their deck this winter. I will have to try and fill my muzzleloader tag back here in the southern zone next weekend. This was the first of (4) trips up there this season where I did not see any sign of an antlered deer. There were some nice fresh scrapes on my last (3) trips. Surely, with all those doe around, there should be more next year. I have the opposite problem at home, where almost all the deer I see have antlers. Even the one I thought was a doe, turned out to be a bb when I walked up to the carcass to gut it. Fortunately, I will have another tag for "antlered" ones, once ML season opens up here next weekend.

That one seems to underestimate the dressed weights by more than the PA chart (at least for the larger chest girths). Now I see why you use the PA chart. Do you have any of your own numbers that you could share ? I am especially interested in doe numbers. The correlation that Tac's and I got, with WMU 9f bucks, was pretty close to the PA chart.

The two properties that I hunt in the southern zone (on opposite corners of WMU 9F) add up to about 100 acres. I am the only one who hunts them and have been averaging about (2) deer a year for quite a while. Does are getting harder to get the last few years because the a few farmers, located in between, hammer them pretty hard with their nuisance permits before October 1. The buck hunting has been pretty good though. I have seen them on almost every sit since tagging out on opening day of gun. I am eagerly awaiting the opening of ML season, when I will have another buck tag. It has been a while since I killed (3) bucks in a year. That would be doable this year, including the bb that I used a DMP on during archery. I certainly won't pass on a doe, if one gives me a chance, but I don't expect to get any more cracks at one of those this year. As far as your question goes, there really is no "too many" in zone 9F at this time. The state has been struggling with overpopulation here for many years. I have (3) more DMP's in addition to an antlerless and either/or ML/archery tag next week. Even though I have enough venison for our immediate family (a buddy gave me a couple in addition to the two that I killed), I would not hesitate to fill more tags if I get the chances. My brother-in-law makes awesome jerky from half venison, half beef (which he raises). Making venison into jerky, for people to enjoy, beats the heck out of feeding coyotes with it. That is what happens to most of them that fall to those nuisance permits. It also beats having them get hit by cars.

Now we have (4) NY deer that were all heavier than predicted my the PA chart. Different correction factors for each DMU would be nice. Tac's and mine had nearly the same correction factor and they were both 9F's. Also, there should probably be different charts for bucks and does. Does typically carry a lot more weight in their rear ends, especially post-rut. That would explain why Buckmaster's doe was so far off the chart, in addition to his getting it on the scale 2.5 hours after the kill. The faster you get them on the scale, the higher the percentage of the weight is made up of water. I imagine he ain't worried too much about that while watching some play on Broadway.

Happy not sad, especially if he saved the liver. When the Good Lord blesses you with one of those "fatted calves" it is as good as it gets.

You are welcome. That is cool. Maybe I will go back and see if I can find the skull from mine back on the carcass pile. I have some seasoned rough-cut walnut in the barn. My dad could make a nice plaque for it with his planer. Usually the yotes drag them back to their den, so it is probably gone. There may be a den back in our woods though, so I might still find it. I saw a very fat coyote run out of there last Sunday afternoon.

I don't shoot spikes, but button bucks and hen turkeys are yummy. Crossbows are awesome and I don't mind the seasons like they are now.

Have you not noticed that in every case here, where a deer was weighed and chest measured, the weight of the deer was MORE than predicted by the PA chest girth chart ? What "outlandish" numbers might you be talking about ? Do you own a tape measure and a scale ? Why not put up some numbers yourself ? If you are into heavy deer, you might find some 100 pound field-dressed bb's, or 182 pound 2.5's on your ground if you had some better food available for them. White clover and corn makes a great combination. Maybe you also missed the part where I said the weight don't mean much because more than 60 percent of that is made up of water, which has zero nutritional value (no calories). Volume of meat is the important number. The chest girth method makes for a more direct estimate of that. Weight is very much affected by how long it takes to get the deer on the scale. The chest girth stayed the same on the last one I checked throughout the 11 day 33-40 degree F hide-on ageing period.

As far as the crew here goes, I vote for Chef, since he is in the lead on the contest and has saved me more valuable hunting time than any other member. G-man gets second, thanks to his providing that PA chest girth chart that I know and love. I don't know of any bad hunters here, but some are a lot more fun to argue with than others. It gets boring when everyone thinks the same. Trying different things is cool and new ideas are always welcome. Heck, I even threw one up on a scale this year. Now I know better than to do that again.

That is a 1.5 year old spike, not a 6 month old button. It has been about 20 years since I shot one of them. There is no point in shooting one of those, since they taste exactly the same as a 2-1/2 or 3-1/2 year old buck, but have much less meat on them. Within the 1-1/2 year age class, the spikes, threes and fours are usually smaller than the fives, sixes and sevens. It has been almost that long since I killed any with less than three on a side. When it comes to meat quality (especially the liver), a six month old is nearly worth it's weight in gold, as far as my taste buds are concerned. Those of you who have never tried one have not a clue of what you are missing. I would shoot them all at 6 months if I could and my wife and kids would be thrilled if that ever happened. I would consider this my second best crossbow season ever, thanks to the 100 pound plus field-dressed button buck. The 43" chest girth, 3.5 year old behemoth that I nailed last year just barely edges it out. It takes an awful lot of quantity to beat out that much quality. I was pushing hard for full inclusion until that monster button came along this year, the first time I have ever been able to punch a DMP with my crossbow. If we do get a poll going, I might be inclined to vote: "leave the seasons like they are" if that is given as an option, rather than just "for" or "against" full inclusion. I also liked having that extra time for hen-turkey hunting with my shotgun. Those hen turkey drumsticks were almost as tasty as this button buck's liver.

I finished the euro on this one with the power washer (it took longer than usual so I must be loosing some pressure), but I have not made the skull comparison yet. Still leaning towards 3.5 but may be a big-bodied 2.5. The lower jaw cleaned up real good and that did not take long with the washer.

The value of the quick estimate is that normally our entire year's supply of venison comes in during the last week of archery and the first week of gun. That means there is usually multiple deer hanging or in the deer fridge, some tags still available and it makes it easy to see if I should keep shooting or stop. Once I get up near 200 pounds of boned out meat, I can back off a bit and/or be a little more selective in my targets.

Come on man, even I can see that is photo-shopped. His head is way to big (in the picture I mean).

Most of my own "disdain" is because it is illegal. I am sure I will hear: "so is driving 1 mph over the speed-limit". That maybe true, however the accepted standard is driving about 8 mph over the speed limit and keeping up with traffic is safer for all than slowing it down. Keeping people safe trumps following the letter of the law in the case of driving. It also seems stupid to me because I can grow corn cheaper than I can buy it. Why waste the money on "bait" when I can legally plant a food plot. Finally, (sorry about this one FSW), there is the CWD (and other disease) issue. Bait brings deer close together in an unnatural way, promoting the spread of disease. Is it any wonder that the only CWD discovered in NY has been on deer farms? I don't know of anyone who baits. If I did, I would not hesitate to call the DEC about it. I also understand that most folks are too afraid to do that. If any law-breaking, stupid, disease - spreading baiters read this, try thinking a little bit more about what you are doing and if the benefits really outweigh the costs ?

Do you still have one hanging and a type measure handy ? We could use a few more data points for a more accurate NY correction factor.

I agree which is why I don't usually do it. I only did it this last time because I had the buck on the back of the van and the scale was not far out of my way on my way home. I thought it would be a good opportunity to check the accuracy of the PA chart.

I am interested in G-man's numbers also. He is the one who first brought us the chart and has claimed to get pretty good correlation. I think his place is much closer to the PA border than you or I which might explain the better results. Also, all these "experts" who claim to be able to weigh a deer from an internet photo ought to have a tape measure laying around. I wonder why they never post any of their own chest girth numbers ? I finally posted one up on a scale. That did seem to shut a few of them up anyhow.

It sounds like you also missed where I said that weight does not mean that much to me because what you are weighing is more than 60 % water which has no nutritional value and varies a lot depending on how fast you get it on the scale. VOLUME of venison is my primary concern and chest girth provides for a more direct estimate of that. I want to know how many quart-sized freezer bags of meat I get from a deer. I can get all the water I need cheap from the tap. Also, I don't know about the accuracy of those $ 25 "made in China" scales which is why I weighed my buck on a "legal for trade", made in USA butcher's balance.

Thanks for the additional data point. Here is an "average" NY correction factor using our three available data points: 1) SJ's daughter's buck: 40" chest girth, 180 pound actual field-dressed weight, PA chart prediction = 144 pounds (- 20.0 %). 2) My gun buck: 42" chest girth, 182 pound actual field-dressed weight, PA chart prediction = 170 pounds (- 6.59 %). 3) Your doe (congrats by the way): 31" chest girth, 117 pound actual field-dressed weight, PA chart prediction = 74 pounds (- 36.8 %). Giving equal weight to each data points, the average correction would be 21.1 %. For a NY deer, multiply the field dressed weight from the PA chart by 1.21. That would give my 35" girth button buck a field-dressed weight of almost 120 pounds, probably a NY state record for a "wild" six month old. FSW probably has a hard time fattening his tame ones up that much behind his fence. That would also mean that the smaller-antlered, but larger chest girth (43"), that I killed in the same woods with my crossbow last season, had a field dressed weight of 220 pounds. That would be a record for me. My heaviest buck, that I had put on a scale prior to this year (and also my largest rack) was 178 pounds. Like I mentioned before though, weight of a deer don't mean all that much to me since it is always more than 60 % water. Water has no nutritional value. Volume of venison is what I am after, and the chest girth method provides a better estimate of that. In all three cases here, where the deer was put on a scale, the NY deer are heavier than the weights predicted by the PA chart. Maybe you were pulling the tape measure way too tight on your doe (did you use a seamstresses tape or mark a string like G-man). My guess is that you got her on the scale very soon after gutting her. That ends up with a lot of water weight. My buck had hung outside in a tree for about 6 hours prior to weighing and I think SJ put his daughter's buck on a scale the day after gutting. Allowing some time for the carcass to dry out gets rid of some of that water weight. Thanks again for participating in this complicated mathematical experiment. I can give my daughter back her calculator now.

Very good question, family I guess. Otherwise, I should have spent a few years in Ohio. The crossbow has turned out to be far better than I expected. No wounded and lost deer, no misses, no ruined meat, no noise, minimal "practice required", all for $ 250. Definitely the best money I have spent on this sport. I probably would upgrade my entry level crossbow, if full-inclusion ever goes through. As I mentioned in my first post, I am content with the rules as they are now (and with the extra cash to use on better things). As long as the freezer stays full every year, I ain't complaining. I am very thankful to have access to my favorite weapon in the Southern zone at my favorite time to hunt (the rut), and for those three extra "bonus" days a month earlier up in the Northern zone. Hopefully, Heaven will be this good.

Maybe that is why I have not seen any deer on our own farm since dumping the first whitetail butchering scraps in early November. There are four chewed up carcasses on that pile now (fortunately the hunting has been good over at my folk's place on the other corner of the WMU, and at my buddy's cabin in the southern tier). I got a quick look at a fat coyote running out of our woods on Sunday afternoon. It plunged thru a deep ditch at the border of our land to make it's escape, and I could really tell how fat it was with it's fur all wet. It was way too fast for me to get a shot off. Usually I only see them at night under a full (or close to it) moon or right around sunrise at this time of year. That last sighting was at 1:30 in the afternoon.

I guess that explains why you left Mississippi. You don't sound very happy here in NY. Maybe you, Doc and the three or four other NYB members who have chimed in on this thread could get yourselves in a min-van and head out west to Oregon. More than likely, you "heroes" could live out your lives there without having to worry about us weaker and/or less dedicated folks bothering "your" deer. Besides whitetails, they have mule deer, blacktails, elk, moose, and more big game species that are not available to hunt in NY, making that last crossbow-free state a virtual sportsman's paradise. The fishing is very good out there also. The scenery around the Columbia river and Mt Hood rivals that of NY's Adirondacks. I have visited a few times but you would never catch me living in a state where I could not use my favorite weapon on my favorite animal to eat. Speaking of that, besides button bucks and hen turkeys, are you mad about my liking to keep and eat "just barely keeper" bass ? I hope you are blessed with enough venison this season in NY, especially if it is your last.

I appreciate all those baby bucks that you and the other trophy hunters pass on. Some years, they might be all that prevents more store-bought chicken from being served at our house. Keep up the spectacular work and don't let the wanabees get you down.

We stayed at Peaks of Otter in VA a few times. The scenery was great, almost on par with the Adirondacks. There were lots of whitetail deer around there that would eat apples right out of your hands. I think the lodge and motel is still run by Delaware North (headquartered in Buffalo NY). They had taken over ownership just prior to our last stay. Under the previous ownership, they always had a great, all you can eat, seafood buffet. I am not sure if that has continued under Delaware North.