Where can i Waterfowl hunt in NY?

[Ricpac]

I am new to hunting and would love to try waterfowl hunting. Being in the Bronx doesn't help with the hunting much but i would like to know where can i get some good hunting maybe about 2 hours away?

[virgil]

I hunt with a buddy of mine out of Point Lookout in western Nassau.  Loads of brandt as well as occasional mallards, blacks, geese, broadbill, buffleheads, mergansers.  You'd definitely need a boat. 

[mike rossi]

For me, only being down there a handful of times, its hard to grasp the concept of 2 hours from any point down there, but I think I can give you some generic info.

 

Navigable waters and the Atlantic Ocean are public areas. Local Police might know this, or deny it even if they do, but its in the statues. The second you step on land or in some cases drop an anchor, the rules may change depending on where you are. In NY, if you are hunting waterfowl, over water, and only shooting over the water, the 500 foot setback does not apply. That doesn't overrule or supercede ordinances banning gun discharge, but it is an exception to the environmental conservation law. 500 feet really isn't very far at all anyway and I don't recommend you take advantage of that exception, but it prevents he said she said pissing contests with hobliophobes and animal lovers as well as over zealous cops.  

 

You can also take waterfowl over harvested crop fields, but that would require you get permission from the landowner. I heard there are some farms on LI. Farmers usually allow hunting, but I heard that in places like New Jersey they don't, I would imagine LI to be similar.  

 

You can hunt on a variety of public lands or private lands without navigable waters as well. If you are asking here  for specific locations, forget it, nobody reveals their spots. Waterfowling requires more exploring and dedication than any other form of hunting - plan on at least one scouting mission for every actual hunt. . A suprising number of people think waterfowl are easy because they only think of the birds they see when fishing or at the parks in the summer when they are flightless due to molting. Some of those birds actually are tame, but many of them know its a different ballgame in the fall and away from their summer camps. if you think that's what you will be hunting, your in for an awaking.

 

Even when you learn to pattern some birds where you can legally hunt, new challenges will arise. You may need a boat. You may need decoys. You may need a dog. It may be to hard to wade or set decoys or collect your decoys.  There may be no cover to hide. The list goes on and on and you will see waterfowling presents challenges which are just too much for most hunters. Those who can handle it often find everything else unchallenging. I try not to puff my chest out, but this is a simple reality here, waterfowling is tough to participate in and much harder to succeed in. You have your one time wonders, your videos of guides who cheat and bait on private leases, and the deer guys who hunt only on opening days who are aware of those rare spots that hold niave opening day birds every year. But that's not everyday waterfowling.  Expect a long learning curve, and you may not need much equipment, but you may need to experiment to find out what you do need and what is worthless for the areas you have available to hunt. Another thought, if you do hunt tide water, you need to learn who the tides influence the patterns of the birds. In non tidal areas crop harvest, flooding water, and receding water, as well as freezing and migration, change the game overnight. Before you even start you need to learn your ducks - there are species and sex specific bag limits and you cant comply with the law if you don't know your birds. What can I say other than good luck....

 

 

[greybeard]

If you hunt waterfowl on Long Island be sure to check  ordinances..For example, there is NO waterfowl hunting in the Town of Huntington...

Some local municipalities have ordinances against discharge of firearms too.

 

I never used a guide on LI because I had my spots, but I know guys that do and are happy with the guided hunts.. Guides have decoys, boat, etc. I don't know what they charge..

 

There  is a  Waterfowl Identification Course, which I took and recommend..Check with the DEC about that.

 

There is a waterfowl hunting club on Long Island called.. South Shore Waterfowlers..They have a website and have a waterfowl festival not far from Jones Beach in late October, or so. You can go on their site and read about what they do. I took my ID course through them.

 

There are some parks on LI that have waterfowling for a fee...

 

I'm not recommending them, just passing it on..

 

One is South Haven Park, and the other is Cedar Park...

 

South Haven is off Rt. 27 near William Floyd Parkway. I did it once.. It's a lottery, which I did not like. Look it up on line and read about it , or call them and see if you like what you hear. It may have changed since I was there. I got lucky and got a blind, but if there are too many people you may not get a blind and that's the end of that. I had other spots out east so I didn't worry about it. I would hate to drive out there and get shut out. It's not opened everyday and sessions are 1/2 day.

 

Cedar is on Eastern LI somewhere, you can find it on line. It's for Sea Ducks I don't know how it works, but I think it's from blinds on a beach.. It might be worth a look if you want to try for Sea Ducks. It may be a little further then you want to drive, and I don't know how it works, or how good it is.

 

Study the rules, know the seasons , you will get checked.... also learn to call , it's fun

[shawnhu]

One reason why I haven't gotten into waterfowl is because there are so many damn rules!

But Stewart has some areas for waterfowl. Good luck fellow Boogy Downer.

[greybeard]

Shawn.. I felt the same way, and although I was surrounded by waterfowl areas growing up, I did not start waterfowl hunting until I was over 50.I didn't want to make mistakes. The year before I started, I learned to call, found  legal spots and learned the rules by reading and asking. I even called some of the Town Law Enforcement Officials to check the laws in their jurisdiction which can be stricter then the State.

 

The duck ID caused me angst, so until I got good at it, because of the way the limits are, I did not shoot at any brown colored ducks. The colorful ones were easier for me to positively identify. Maybe an over reaction, but it worked for me.

 

In one spot, we were checked almost everyday by the DEC and although they were really good people, and I was glad that they were around, I knew that they had to, and would, enforce the laws.

 

So you are right in being cautious.

 

 

[virgil]

If not for being lucky enough to have a very experienced friend to learn from, I never would have been able to start duck hunting on the Island.

[greybeard]

Virgil.. I hunted Long Island since the mid 60's , so I did know about some places and even saw blinds on occasion . I agree that knowing someone is a better way. That is the reason that I mentioned the waterfowl club., it might be a good place to make contacts for him, if he's interested.

Also, if he likes the idea of the parks, it gives him an exact spot to hunt because they even give you the blind to hunt in. In addition, if they still do it, South Haven gave you decoys to use.

 

I don't know if coming from the Bronx is that convenient to long Island. Bridge toll and traffic would be too much for me, but figured I'd just pass it on.

 

 

[virgil]

I agree, it's not that too convenient.  But, the Bronx to Point Lookout is not too far- it's actually a lot shorter drive than from where I come from. 

[greybeard]

Yeah, I didn't think of that. I wasn't thinking of Nassau, I was only thinking of Suffolk.

I had some good spots in Nassau, but I needed my kayak in those.

[Ricpac]

thank you greybeard for your first long post. I got in touch with south shore waterfowlers and one of the main guys was very nice on the phone and told me to call back closer to season time as to register for the waterfowl ID classes. the meeting place for them is only one hour away from where i am in the bronx. I used to live in queens in howard beach, which wouldve been extremely closer but for just a 1 hour ride to south shore, it doesn't sound too bad. I can also find something near sullivan county, maybe bashakill park?? how did you do it out of your kayak and not get thrown over from recoil? lol

[greybeard]

Ricpac

 

I'm glad that the Southshore club was helpful, I met some very nice guys there. I am not a club guy so I didn't join, but if I had a different personality I would have. I got some good info from them. I went to their festivals a few times too.

You mentioned Bashakill, I never hunted there, but did check it out.  In fact, it was one of the Southshore guys who told me about it. I hope that they give you the paperback, "Ducks at a Distance" at the ID class.

 

I hunted from my kayak a lot, I almost flipped out of it once as I shot a Canada goose which passed to my left. , I never shot that way again. I mainly used it to get to spots in the bays and then beach it and sometimes shoot from it while it was beached.  I carried a chair and blind material to set up on shore too. I'm pretty short , so I used a kids camp chair. The kayak cheaper then a dog for retrieving too.

 

I did have a system for shooting Brant in the shallows from it, but that's another story.

 

I'm not familiar with waterfowling in Westchester, or Putnam, but it may be worth your while to check it out. I hunted in Putnam quite a bit , but never waterfowling. Maybe someone on this site can help you with that..

 

 

[mike rossi]

A couple of comments. Unless the migration is happening in real time and the location is fairly prime, permanent blinds burn out fast. Day in day out waterfowling depends on mobility. Fixture blinds can sometimes be productive for short windows of time, but they are not dependable throughout the season.

 

As far as a boat Versus a dog, the dog wins. You will never cover a concoction of water, mud, and vegetation as quickly as a dog and their ability to mark and remember falls, and if need be smell and hear the slightest things, is priceless. I would use a boat as a conveyance to reach locations but for the retrieving a dog can be out & back with speed, ease, and stealth. It takes a while to train a dog, and in the mean time using a boat to fetch birds is fine, but don't downplay the usefulness of a dog. Owning, training, handling, and hunting with a retriever is an integral part of waterfowling.

Edited July 13, 2013 by mike rossi

[greybeard]

A good dog is a wonderful thing, and I would never downplay using a dog. In my case, I don't have the time, or interest  at this stage of my life to train,  or care for,  a retriever. ( I was a hound man anyway)

 

For most of the type of waterfowling that I did, the kayak was perfect, but we all have our thing. If someone prefers a dog then that's the way to go for him(her).

 

I mostly hunted over open saltwater bays, so losing a bird in timber, or vegetation was not an issue.  I never had a problem with that, and launching to retrieve a downed, even wounded bird was a bunt.

 

That being said, the few times where I hunted in timber, or marshes I would have sold my soul for a good retriever.

[mike rossi]

In those areas, I am concerned about my dogs in the early season, especially at high tide, because of sharks. So I wouldn't use a dog.

 

I think if he wants to hunt there for scaup or something, he certainly can use a boat for a layout near a "pass" or decoy them in the shallows especially when low tide coincides with sunrise. I have done it (Raritan, Barnegat, Chesapeake) and it may not be a purist way but big spreads of divers aren't absolutely needed, scaup , buffleheads, etc.. will come into a half dozen mallard blocks.

[jjb4900]

In those areas, I am concerned about my dogs in the early season, especially at high tide, because of sharks. So I wouldn't use a dog.

 

I think if he wants to hunt there for scaup or something, he certainly can use a boat for a layout near a "pass" or decoy them in the shallows especially when low tide coincides with sunrise. I have done it (Raritan, Barnegat, Chesapeake) and it may not be a purist way but big spreads of divers aren't absolutely needed, scaup , buffleheads, etc.. will come into a half dozen mallard blocks.

sharks in the winter? was there ever a person attacked by a shark at any of NY beaches even in the summer?

[mike rossi]

I really don't know the migratory habits of sharks, but I guess I am a liberal because I agree with Al Gore that things are warming up and I don't recall hunting before November back in the day, but these days waterfowl seasons have an early first split. I think there probably is many more sharks then we know about, especially bull sharks - which have more testosterone than any animal and are known to forage in tidal creeks and have been found in the Mississippi and Missouri rivers before they were dammed, as far inland as illionois  or one of those states. Plus waterfowl hunting might be done in more quiet, mucky areas and at sunrise- who knows what lurks there & then? I also believe I heard sharks are more likely to attack dogs than people. Too much uncertainty for me.

[jjb4900]

I really don't know the migratory habits of sharks, but I guess I am a liberal because I agree with Al Gore that things are warming up and I don't recall hunting before November back in the day, but these days waterfowl seasons have an early first split. I think there probably is many more sharks then we know about, especially bull sharks - which have more testosterone than any animal and are known to forage in tidal creeks and have been found in the Mississippi and Missouri rivers before they were dammed, as far inland as illionois  or one of those states. Plus waterfowl hunting might be done in more quiet, mucky areas and at sunrise- who knows what lurks there & then? I also believe I heard sharks are more likely to attack dogs than people. Too much uncertainty for me.

just wondering, if it's true, I got 2 dogs I'd like to take for a swim........LOL

[mike rossi]

Dude, I don't really know for sure how risky sharks are. Algae blooms do kill many dogs and the conditions we are having right now , of heat and sun for days on weeks creates blooms. Even if the algae is across the pond - the toxin might drift. So right now, Im keeping my dogs away from water. Besides, ducks & geese have young and the adults are flightless due to molting, so its a good conservation practice to keep dogs away anyway. Even if your dog doesn't catch any they are using energy and attracting the attention of predators when they flee domestic dogs.

[jjb4900]

Dude, I don't really know for sure how risky sharks are. Algae blooms do kill many dogs and the conditions we are having right now , of heat and sun for days on weeks creates blooms. Even if the algae is across the pond - the toxin might drift. So right now, Im keeping my dogs away from water. Besides, ducks & geese have young and the adults are flightless due to molting, so its a good conservation practice to keep dogs away anyway. Even if your dog doesn't catch any they are using energy and attracting the attention of predators when they flee domestic dogs.

my last post was a joke........I agree that bacteria is a big concern, more so than any shark attack...........when I had retrievers, more than once, they've had the sh*ts for days after spending time in the water during the summer.............I don't think any of those things are a real concern during the winter months.

[mike rossi]

What I am talking about is more serious than stomach problems. The blue-green algae and cyanobacteria is worse, it almost always kills the dog. They don't even have to ingest it, it can be fatal if they absorb it through their skin. I think it is similar to what is called "red tides".  The cyanobacteria, which produces the toxin when it metabolizes the algae, gets its name from the poison cyanide.

[greybeard]

Mike Rossi.. Many times I would hunt near the Channel and when that current came ripping through it would take a dog pretty far away.

[greybeard]

Sorry, I sent the last before I finished.

 

As far as sharks ( I'm not including sand sharks because we got lots of them) :

 

I've had seals swim by me  during the regular waterfowl season, but never saw a shark. But as far as September, when the early goose season is on, I'd say yes they're here.

 

I saw one last year, in the fall, . It came in thru the inlet, while I was fishing.  It swam in from the ocean into the bay.It was swimming on top with it's dorsal fin and tail out of the water.

 

Also, one September I watched a pretty big brown shark swimming in the back bay of the South Shore. I contacted a DEC guy and he's the one that said that it was probably a brown shark.They are reportedly common here.  I didn't measure it, but I'll bet it was every bit of 7 to 8 feet... So they are around, even in the bay, and I don't know when they leave. Of course, along the ocean beaches, sharks are occasionally seen . Some beaches  more then others.

I don't fish for them ,so I'm not familiar with shark's movements.

 

As far as that Algae you described, can that  be here in September ?? Can the bacteria be in waterfowl meat ?

 

Like everywhere, I guess, we got tons of resident geese and they create a smelly mess in ponds and even in some salt areas. I used to fish for largemouth in a pond and it smelled and looked like a toilet for geese. I always wondered how much bad bacteria was in the water. Of course, I stupidly still fished there because it was a good spot. I did stop crabbing in some canals because of the goose stink, and presumed bacteria.

 

Thank you for that information, I will pass it on. Maybe it'll save a retriever.

 

 

 

[mike rossi]

I don't see why it couldn't bloom in September. The most favorable conditions for the bloom as I said are a lot of sun in un-shaded areas, clear water, and heat for consecutive days. Another thing that favors a bloom is a high nutrient load, like sewerage or fertilizer. Those are optimum conditions, and I don't think that optimum means absolutely required. Besides, heat, sun, clear water, and nutrient abundance can occur in September.

I don't want to get into the life cycle of this plant, I need to learn about it myself. But you apparently are a little confused. It is an algae plant that under certain conditions overpopulates. A kind of bacteria either feeds on it, decomposes it when the plant dies, or has some symbiotic relationship with it - I don't remember which, but whatever it is, there is a toxin that is produced as an end product of metabolism. So it is the combination of an over population of blue-green algae and this specific kind of bacteria. I also think there are other similar events with different plants with or with out a bacteria, some in fresh water and some in salt water. I really am not the person to ask about this. What concerns me the most, is that this stuff is called blue-green algae, but if you do a google search, you can see it sometimes looks brown, red, or like foam. Sometimes it looks like another plant that is harmless... This is why I just play it safe, during those favorable conditions and a week or so afterward, I just avoid water.

As far as I know, the toxin doesn't persist very long, but it has been suggested it drifts around. Its like cooking meat - you can easily kill the bacteria, but the toxin produced by the bacteria isn't effected by the cooking. You probably know that the DEC closes shell-fishing around the fourth of july because the fireworks attracts boaters who flush their toilets off LI. That works its way into shellfish and perhaps causes algae blooms. The season doesn't stay closed forever, it cleans out & the dec reopens the season before the summers end. Disgusting, but when some so-called tree huggers inevitably suggested that fireworks weren't a good idea, Im sure they caught fire for it...

I also need to learn about shark migration. As a waterfowler you already know the birds don't migrate the same in recent years. Biologists have documented the same thing hunters are seeing in not just migratory game birds but all migrant birds. Studies have also been done on fish and marine animals, but I haven't read them. Without knowing, the prospect of sharks makes me uneasy... By the way, the investigators (researchers) blame the altered migration on climate change, in case your interested...

[mike rossi]

I forgot about your question if the bacteria can be in waterfowl meat. I think it is possible that if its on the feathers the live bacteria or its toxin can be transferred to the meat when you dress the birds, why not? I would guess that if so, that washing and cooking might remove it but who knows?

I don't know if it can taint the meat if the bird eats or drinks it or absorbs it through it the feathers and skin. I certaintly wouldn't eat the livers because that is the organ that warehouses toxins strained from the bloodstream.

Those are good questions for the board of health and the DEC might be able to tell you if the birds avoid algae blooms in the first place... If you find anything out, let us know!