Posting Land

[Bowtoons]

This discussion came up at my in-laws yesterday. My wife's uncle leases a crap load of land for hunting. He was telling me for the property to be legally posted. Each sign has to be attached to it's own stake and not on a tree. I never heard of this and wanted to know if anyone knows for sure what the law on this is?

[cdmckane]

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/8371.html

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[Pav2704]

This should help...

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/8371.html

[Pav2704]

Just saw it was already posted...

[Bowtoons]

I have already read through this and I'm not seeing anything about what the sign must be attached to.

[cdmckane]

Exactly. Land doesn't need to be posted. You can still press charges if you have trespassers.

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[Bowtoons]

Sooo....He's full of crap? pretty much what I thought.

[Paula]

Exactly. Land doesn't need to be posted. You can still press charges if you have trespassers.

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how do they know they are trespassing if it isn't posted?

[Pav2704]

There's a section that talks about unimproved land that isn't posted... Is that still trespassing?

[bubba]

If land is not posted for public hunting aka state land the inference is ti it owned by someone.  No posters does not mean free gratis.

[cdmckane]

how do they know they are trespassing if it isn't posted?

If you don't own it, someone else does. If that person isnt NYS, it's private property and youre trespassing if you go there. It's YOUR responsibility to be legal.

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[bluecoupe]

Yep, it's your job to know where you can go and where you can't. If you don't explicitly have permission from the owner or if it's not state/fed land that allows access - they you aren't welcome. Pretty straight forward.

 

One other common misconception by landowners is that if someone gets hurt on their property that they can be sued.  wrong, Wrong, WRONG. (unless they get $ for access) (( but try and get them to believe that even with a link))

 

 

Q. Is posting required to protect landowners from liability?

A. No. Whether the property is posted or not, the General Obligations Law protects landowners from liability for non-paying recreationalists on their property. Because of this protection, recreational liability lawsuits against rural landowners are uncommon. Recreational activities covered include: hunting; fishing; organized gleaning (picking); canoeing; boating; trapping; hiking; cross-country skiing; tobogganing; sledding; speleological (caving) activities; horseback riding; bicycle riding; hang gliding; motorized vehicle operation for recreation; snowmobiling; non-commercial wood cutting or gathering; and dog training. This protection does not apply in cases of willful or malicious failure to guard or warn against dangers.

 

Q. May the owner or lessee charge for hunting, fishing, or trapping on the posted property?

A. Yes, but charging for access removes the liability protection granted to the landowner by the General Obligations Law. To learn more about landowner liability see the link for Cornell University's publication "Recreational Access and Owner Liability" under Links Leaving DEC's Website in the right hand column at the top of this page."

Edited November 29, 2013 by SteveC

[Pav2704]

Another question... Do all state and county land spots have numbered parking spots on Long Island?

[jrm]

This discussion came up at my in-laws yesterday. My wife's uncle leases a crap load of land for hunting. He was telling me for the property to be legally posted. Each sign has to be attached to it's own stake and not on a tree. I never heard of this and wanted to know if anyone knows for sure what the law on this is?

I took a hunter safety course earlier this year and the instructors were claiming things along these lines. They explained that there are so many specific rules to properly post a property that no one is able to get it right. They were definitely implying that the "hunter" doesn't need to worry about it because you can get away with trespass due to the technicalities.

I questioned them on this, asking for the source of their claims. They tried to brush me off and eventually said it is not a state level thing but all found in local town codes.

I call BS on that. All I could find anywhere was what'sis shown on the DEC site. Conspicuous signs, posted minimum distances, etc. I think all this "can't be on a tree" talk is urban legend and wishful thinking.

I welcome any legit references showing otherwise.

As noted on the DEC site, all land is owned by someone. If you are not on public land, you are on private land. If on private land without permission, you are trespassing - whether or not there is a sign.

[wooly]

If it's not posted properly you can't press trespassing charges to a first time violator who happens across the unmarked imaginary line.

After that you'll at least need to issue written warning(certified letter) clearly stating the property boundaries to the "offender" to make future intrusions illegal trespass whether you decide to post it or not.

I know nothing about the liability  aspect of how it's posted.

Edited November 29, 2013 by wooly

[ncountry]

I hunt a few areas, large tracts of woods and swamps that are unimproved. Many of them are unposted with very little to no old fence lines,tree rows, etc.. I do my best with tax maps or even get the owners to walk the lines( many times they don't know exactly where they are) to stay within the are that I have permission for. It would be pretty easy though to be a 100 feet or more into the wrong piece. In my experience though if its not posted and you haven't walked blatently into their piece everyone is understanding. If they are real worried about you being ten feet over the line they would post it.

[Paula]

I understand if you don't own then more than likely you might be trespassing. I was thinking more of just not knowing you crossed line without knowing. I have done it before, honest mistake but to press charges when it's not posted seems wrong. I like a warning first then get me if I come back

[cdmckane]

I have a few posted signs around and I know it's easy to cross the line without seeing them. I handle trespassers on a case by case basis depending on how deep they are, if they've shot a deer, are tracking, if they have permission to be on neighbor property etc.....

If you're on your land, you should know where the lines are. If you're hunting private property that's not yours, you should ask the owner to walk you along the lines so you know exactly where you are.

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[ncountry]

I understand if you don't own then more than likely you might be trespassing. I was thinking more of just not knowing you crossed line without knowing. I have done it before, honest mistake but to press charges when it's not posted seems wrong. I like a warning first then get me if I come back

Exactly, I am not sure what the exact law interpretation is, but with no posted signs and lack of any other delineating features I would think it difficult to enforce a traspassing charge.

[bubba]

That I agree with. I was more thinking finding a piece that seems to be no one around and just set up shop to hunt. 

[ncountry]

That I agree with. I was more thinking finding a piece that seems to be no one around and just set up shop to hunt.

Lmao..lol...would he cheaper than buying or leasing!!

[ncountry]

Lol...Not advocating tresspassing ..just saying it can happen easily in some cases without intent..

[wooly]

I understand if you don't own then more than likely you might be trespassing. I was thinking more of just not knowing you crossed line without knowing. I have done it before, honest mistake but to press charges when it's not posted seems wrong. I like a warning first then get me if I come back

 

That is the way it is.

I know a lot of guys would like to believe it "should be another way"...but it's not.

First hand experience here with a neighbor that didn't post properly and called me and several others in for it.

DEC officer came out and no ticket issued due to impropper posting. He doesn't have to post it now for me or everyone else he has issued letters to... but if someone new happens to come along and do the same thing, he's right back where he started and can't do anything untill the boundaries are made aware of. 

Knucklehead still hasn't posted anything and I hear he continues to have problems with new comers. Good I say....

[Paula]

I do know that wooly, that's the reason people rip the posted signs down.

I put mine up with a step ladder on painted boards and have 3 different a signs.

Mine can be seen and case there will be any confusion I will be adding more in the spring

[ncountry]

I am always picking on one of my best friends.the only way you make it onto his property without knowing it is because you shielded your eyes from the glare from all the signs and stumbled past.