.243 Winchester Hand Loading Thead

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Ok, I guess I can see those points. If I started running near of at the load limits it would be a good investment. I am curious where you guys normally sit in terms of accurate loads. For example. Out of all the loads I have done for the 5 calibers. it seems as though the most accurate seem to be in the 60-75% range between the starting loads and the maximums. Have you guys found any loads at the limits that were the most accurate? And since I never ventured up that high once I hit a good load. is it possible as you increase the charge to have the groups tighten then open up, then tighten up again? I hope that question made sense?

[Lawdwaz]

Ok, I guess I can see those points. If I started running near of at the load limits it would be a good investment. I am curious where you guys normally sit in terms of accurate loads. For example. Out of all the loads I have done for the 5 calibers. it seems as though the most accurate seem to be in the 60-75% range between the starting loads and the maximums. Have you guys found any loads at the limits that were the most accurate? And since I never ventured up that high once I hit a good load. is it possible as you increase the charge to have the groups tighten then open up, then tighten up again? I hope that question made sense?

 

My 223ai was at the upper end and appeared fine.  One day I was hunting chucks and had the gun and ammo sitting in the very hot sun on a scorching day.  I had my buddy lined up to take the next shot and he did..........killing the chuck but also getting some hot gas in his face.  The extreme heat and max loads were to much.  The primer was completely obliterated in the case head.  When I tried to lift the bolt, it wouldn't budge, We finished the night off with the 22-250.  When I got home I gave the bolt a couple wraps and up it came.  Pulled it back and saw that the case was stuck in the bolt face.  I tapped the stuck case on the side of my bench and out it came, along with a small piece of the bolt face.

 

A few calls the next day answered plenty of questions and I was told that if the extractor was OK, I shouldn't worry about the missing chunk-o-bolt.

 

Needless to say I pulled the remaining bullets and powder, recharged them with a half a grain LESS powder.  All is good in Woodchuckville now.

 

Lessons learned and nobody got hurt TOO bad.......

[Pygmy]

Tighten with increase, then open up, then tighten again ? I can't recall ever having that happen, although most anything is possible.

Several rifles that I have worked up loads for grouped the best with loads just as hot as I dared load them. My .280 is a good example. It groups the best loaded right up to the gills. Anything below max in that rifle gives mediocre groups at best.

[shawnhu]

I don't get the whole Chrono thing. The manual is going to give you an approximation of the velocities you will get. As hunters as long as we are putting a round down range with adequate killing power and doing it accurately, why would we care how fast it gets there? lol

Definitely for muzzle velocity and drop chart purposes. I would imagine that because my barrel is only 20", I won't be able to go by Internet approximations or any load data. I'll eventually work up loads for both varmint and medium game so I'll have desperate charts for each bullet type and velocities.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Definitely for muzzle velocity and drop chart purposes. I would imagine that because my barrel is only 20", I won't be able to go by Internet approximations or any load data. I'll eventually work up loads for both varmint and medium game so I'll have desperate charts for each bullet type and velocities.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

So you would have to re sight in when switching quarry and rounds.

[shawnhu]

So you would have to re sight in when switching quarry and rounds.

There will no doubt be a shift in POI between the different projectiles, so I'll have to settle on my go-to round and sight in for that. Then I'll see where the other rounds hit and adjust the turrets for those. If the rounds shoot true each time, and my scope can track well, I shouldn't have any issues switching back and forth without having to re-sight in each time. All that testing will be done on paper of course.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[Lawdwaz]

You may not learn much from this but it's chocked full of good stuff................................

 

http://www.6mmbr.com/243win.html

[shawnhu]

I actually read that in its entirety a few days ago. Great stuff!

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[pistolp71]

How did you determine your seating depth?

[Lawdwaz]

How did you determine your seating depth?

 

I don't know how shawn found his but I use the Hornady tool and technique found here..................

 

http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/lid=16131/GunTechdetail/Determining-Bullet-Seating-Depth-

[shawnhu]

How did you determine your seating depth?

Originally, I set the seating depth to just at the lands, but was advised to give it some jump. I re-seated those to the standard the books recommend.

I determined the seating depths by crimping a fire-formed empty case to give each bullet type a perfect grip so that it can slide back as I push the cartridge into the chamber and close the bolt. I did this several times, each time measuring the OAL. From there, I use the same test cartridge to set my seating die and recheck several times.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[shawnhu]

I don't know how shawn found his but I use the Hornady tool and technique found here..................

http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/lid=16131/GunTechdetail/Determining-Bullet-Seating-Depth-

I don't have any special tools for it, as I'm just starting out. It takes me much longer than if I had a tool for it, but he method described seems to be reliable.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[pistolp71]

Originally, I set the seating depth to just at the lands, but was advised to give it some jump. I re-seated those to the standard the books recommend.

I determined the seating depths by crimping a fire-formed empty case to give each bullet type a perfect grip so that it can slide back as I push the cartridge into the chamber and close the bolt. I did this several times, each time measuring the OAL. From there, I use the same test cartridge to set my seating die and recheck several times.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

 

Yup, that will work. The only problem with that is, the way you are doing it, you are actually jamming the bullet into the lands. You don't want a hard jam, especially with a hunting rifle. You want to just barely touch the lands, as that usually yields best accuracy. Take a sharpie and mark the ogive of the bullet and keep seating it down till you don't see or barely see the rifling marks. I use tools similar to Lawdwaz which makes life easier, but it can be done without.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I determined the seating depths by crimping a fire-formed empty case

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

Go easy on the crimp. just enough to hold it. you want it to move a bit. Like Pistol said. you don't want a bunch of force involved

[shawnhu]

Go easy on the crimp. just enough to hold it. you want it to move a bit. Like Pistol said. you don't want a bunch of force involved

I'm able to slide the bullet by hand. Not a hard crimp at all.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[Lawdwaz]

Stick one in the lands yet? 

 

Tap 'er out with the cleaning rod and do it again.............

[pistolp71]

Stick one in the lands yet? 

 

Tap 'er out with the cleaning rod and do it again.............

How about doing that with a loaded round. Nice chamber full of powder. That's why a hard jam is not recommended in a hunting rifle.

[Lawdwaz]

How about doing that with a loaded round. Nice chamber full of powder. That's why a hard jam is not recommended in a hunting rifle.

 

Who said anything about a hard jam?  Plenty of guys will touch or "kiss" the lands and it isn't a problem if you know what you're doing.

[pistolp71]

When you take a bullet and seat it long in a empty case, and chamber it. You are jamming the bullet into the lands to seat it. That is a hard jam. If you load a round like that and need to eject a unfired round, the bullet can get stuck in the lands on the eject, resulting in a chamber full of powder.

 

Just touching is a different story. That is what I recommended.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

When you take a bullet and seat it long in a empty case, and chamber it. You are jamming the bullet into the lands to seat it. That is a hard jam.

As Shawn confirmed. It is very lightly crimped so even hand pressure on the bullet would slide it back. It is a very acceptable process but I don't know where you are getting the powder in the chamber part from his posts?

[pistolp71]

Oh boy. This is why I don't like to post much. Trying to help the guy but with the internet postings things get confused.

 

The way he is doing it, the lands are pushing the bullet into the case when he chambers a EMPTY case. If he were to keep that long OAL and LOAD a LIVE round, the lands could grip the bullet and on extraction and leave the chamber full of powder with the bullet stuck in the lands.

 

I really hate posting, talking is much more understandable.

[shawnhu]

Oh boy. This is why I don't like to post much. Trying to help the guy but with the internet postings things get confused.

The way he is doing it, the lands are pushing the bullet into the case when he chambers a EMPTY case. If he were to keep that long OAL and LOAD a LIVE round, the lands could grip the bullet and on extraction and leave the chamber full of powder with the bullet stuck in the lands.

I really hate posting, talking is much more understandable.

I understand what you're trying to say, and it sure is a possibility if I made a mistake in my measurements.

I ONLY measure with EMPTY loads, no powder no primer.

I did have to pop it back out with a cleaning rod the first couple times because it was jammed when pushing in with my figures. Swapped to a looser crimp and that fixed that. I may have been able to use the bolt to extract, but I didn't want to Jane it in an further to damage the bullet.

I would think that the friction required to move the bullet back into the case would still be there when extracting the bullet from the hard jam, allowing a safe extraction of case and bullet. Has this type of thing happened before where the bullet is left in the chamber and powder spilt all over?

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[Pygmy]

I have always done it the way Shawn did it, including marking the bullet with a sharpie.

However, I was never confident enough in my measurments to kiss the lands..Always afraid I'd be jamming it a little too tight. That's why I back off .010" or so at least at the beginning.

Now that I am using Barnes bullets for all of my hunting loads, it's not as much of a big deal, since they seem to shoot fine with a little "jump start".

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I understand what you're trying to say, and it sure is a possibility if I made a mistake in my measurements.

I ONLY measure with EMPTY loads, no powder no primer.

I did have to pop it back out with a cleaning rod the first couple times because it was jammed when pushing in with my figures. Swapped to a looser crimp and that fixed that. I may have been able to use the bolt to extract, but I didn't want to Jane it in an further to damage the bullet.

I would think that the friction required to move the bullet back into the case would still be there when extracting the bullet from the hard jam, allowing a safe extraction of case and bullet. Has this type of thing happened before where the bullet is left in the chamber and powder spilt all over?

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

It can happen if you aren't using that factory crimp and trying to load right at the lands. Everybody I have talked to back off a bit on the OAL once they establish the measurement.

[pistolp71]

Shawnhu, yes of course that has happened before, to many people, including myself before I knew any better.

 

The bottom line is, don't have your COAL so long that the bullet is into the rifling.