.243 Winchester Hand Loading Thead

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Discovered a problem with my Lee Collet Neck Sizing die. It won't resize the neck properly.

I called Lee to see if we can find a solution, but they insist its good and asked me to send the die in along with some casings. Turn around time is more than I want for a brand new toy I'm exciting in using.

Before calling, I researched this issue, and most say its the mandrel that's responsible. So I removed the mandrel and used the die and it worked. Sized the necks down to .242, and a couple down to .237 by accident, whoops!

I'm convinced that either the mandrel size of .240 is too thick, or the center of the die cap is not machined deep enough and the mandrel is bottoming out on the case flash holes.

Anyone with experience with this problem?

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

Are you sure everything is adjusted  per the directions? I have never had an issue with their dies.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Culvercreek hunt club

[shawnhu]

Yes, I've read the instructions several times and made adjustments even outside the instructions, no go. I am only able to neck size if I remove the mandrel.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Here is a thought. remove the decapping rod and check the width with your micrometer. the neck is stretched out to dimension on the withdrawl. Also, are you lubricating the inside of the necks? I have heard it can cause some problems if it drawn back out dry. If you are using the Lee Lubricant you should only need to lube inside on  about every 10 cases.

[shawnhu]

I just did a test, and ruled out the cap as the problem. So I'll focus on the mandrel.

As for lube, no, not currently lubing the neck sizing. Lee said it wasn't necessary, but I can try it.

The mandrel diameter is .240, in spec according to Lee. Many have turned this down and has solved the problem. Some have ordered smaller mandrels from Lee to solve this problem.

I'm only left with the thought that maybe the spring back properties of metal is causing this problem. The .240 size of the mandrel is just not small enough to allow the collet to squeeze down enough to allow the necks to be at a rested position of .242. By reducing the diameter of the mandrel, the collet would be allowed to squeeze to say, 237, and allow the neck to spring back to 242, my guess.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Shawn, The actual sizing for the neck with the Lee Dies takes place as it is withdrawn. I read the sell smaller rods undersized by.002". If it was me I would just load in a drill chuck and use a very fine honing stone or emery cloth. You would only have to do this on the wide shoulder of the rod

[shawnhu]

Shawn, The actual sizing for the neck with the Lee Dies takes place as it is withdrawn. I read the sell smaller rods undersized by.002". If it was me I would just load in a drill chuck and use a very fine honing stone or emery cloth. You would only have to do this on the wide shoulder of the rod

The mandrel in its entirety measures .240. I think the sizing actually happens as the case goes up the press, and the ram is pushed on the collet and forced into the collar cylinder. This does happen as the press handle goes down.

When pulling the case back down(out), the friction should flare the inside of the neck out if its too small, which should never happen because the entire mandrel is the same size. I can see it happening if the top portion is smaller than the bottom though.

Chucking the mandrel in the drill is probably the best option as recommended by a few guys I've read.

But I am very curious as to what your mandrel measures and the actual resized ID of your necks. Would you have thy info handy Bob?

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

Edited January 27, 2014 by shawnhu

[Lawdwaz]

Did you get neck and FL dies with your set?    I only do FL resizing and all my friends are the same.  My bench rest (big time) friend also is FL only.  I say that but my dies are set to JUST barely bump the shoulder back.

 

I'm not at all familiar with Lee stuff some can't add anything to your plight.  

 

Are you (shawn) using mixed brass or is it all from the same manufacturer, same amount of firings etc. as that can only confuse things.  How good is your micrometer?  (another place you don't need to skimp!)  Measuring correctly is an art.  I can mic the same case 5 times and get 6 freaking numbers...................

 

Reloading can get awfully complicated or be simple as heck.............KEEP IT SIMPLE!!

[shawnhu]

I have the Hornady micrometer. It's inexpensive, but IMO accurate enough. I usually measure things 4-5 times and it'll be off by .0005 at most. Well within MY tolerance.

As for the brass, this is happening with all my brass. Winchester, federal, Herter's, as well as JJB's brass from R-P, Federal, and WW Super.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I can check when I get home. It will be for other calibers though. I don't do 243. The top of the lee dies squeeze the neck in both FL and neck sizing. The decapping rod in My sets is not straight. As the rod is removed, after which ever sizing operation you are doing the wide shoulder part of the rod widens the case mouth out to proper dimensions. If the rod measures .243 then you would do better with a smaller rod. I wouldn't take issue with any of mine if that was the case because I factory crimp all my calibers. It isn't an issue then.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Culvercreek hunt club

[shawnhu]

Thanks Bob, appreciate it.

I had pretty good results with both the neck sized(.242) and the crimped. I did find that even on a crimped round, I had play on the bullet. On the .242 sized neck, I wasn't able to move that bullet at all.

I might not be crimping it hard enough, but I'd like to at least start off on the right foot by having the neck sized to .243 or smaller.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[Culvercreek hunt club]

This is what mine look like

Edited January 27, 2014 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Lawdwaz]

When you say "crimp" you're referring to necking down the case neck, not really crimping the case are you?

[thphm]

If you have a 6" dial caliper Measure the Wall Thickness. of the Cases , most brass cases are not uniform in thickness, They are mass produced.And the wall thickness varies.And from brand to brand they are not the same thickness and that will give you different a OD on the cases.Even with the better brands as Lapu and Norma.

On a 6mm / .243 bullet there is no reason to use smaller  then a .241 ID of the case.I do not use the button type expanders that come with most Dies.I use Wilson dies and expanders for that and I use Redding or RCBS bushing type dies without the buttons to form the neck OD.

Another thing to remember most if not all factory barrels are reamed with a .247 neck Dia. so all factory loaded ammo will fit in all factory firearms.They do not use Tight Neck or custom sizes for general sales.

Welcome To The World of Reloading. It's a Learning Curve.

[Pygmy]

I've never got involved in turning necks, nor many of the intricasies of loading for one hole 100 yard groups..

I load hunting loads, and I'm happy to get consistent 100 yard groups of 1.5" or thereabouts. If I get consistent groups under an inch, I am tickled s***less, but for hunting purposes, a half inch group is no better than a two inch group, at least at the ranges at which I am comfortable shooting game animals.

To expect to get 1/2 inch groups with relatively inexpensive out of the box rifles and loading equipment is unrealistic, in my opinion. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. It might happen...But you're LUCKY if it does.

[Lawdwaz]

I load hunting loads, and I'm happy to get consistent 100 yard groups of 1.5" or thereabouts. If I get consistent groups under an inch, I am tickled s***less, but for hunting purposes, a half inch group is no better than a two inch group, at least at the ranges at which I am comfortable shooting game animals.

To expect to get 1/2 inch groups with relatively inexpensive out of the box rifles and loading equipment is unrealistic, in my opinion. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. It might happen...But you're LUCKY if it does.

 

Well put and good goals for hunting loads.

 

 

I do turn necks for two guns, my 223ai with a tight neck chambering job and my 7mm-08 that I use necked down 308 Lapua brass. (Lapua brass in the 223ai also)

 

I use the Lapua 243 brass in my 243 also but don't turn necks for it. 

 

I enjoyed turning the necks for those guns, it was something that interested me at the time and I got decent results for both guns but DON'T recommend it...............

 

When you REALLY want to get frustrated, run your hot, flashy new reloads across a concentricity gauge.  That'll make your head spin and force you to buy all kinds of neat things......................................  

[thphm]

And the Original .243 cases were made from Necked Downed .308 cases.

[Lawdwaz]

And the Original .243 cases were made from Necked Downed .308 cases.

 

That dirty little mutha' .308 sure spawned some beauties.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Lawdwaz

[shawnhu]

This is what mine look like

That's totally cool! And not what I have. If I had that, my problems would be solved.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[shawnhu]

When you say "crimp" you're referring to necking down the case neck, not really crimping the case are you?

Yes, neck down.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[shawnhu]

I've never got involved in turning necks, nor many of the intricasies of loading for one hole 100 yard groups..

I load hunting loads, and I'm happy to get consistent 100 yard groups of 1.5" or thereabouts. If I get consistent groups under an inch, I am tickled s***less, but for hunting purposes, a half inch group is no better than a two inch group, at least at the ranges at which I am comfortable shooting game animals.

To expect to get 1/2 inch groups with relatively inexpensive out of the box rifles and loading equipment is unrealistic, in my opinion. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. It might happen...But you're LUCKY if it does.

My expectations were 1.5" groups or better, and I think I have achieved that. Now everything under is bonus, and I'm trying to see just how lucky I am.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[Lawdwaz]

Yes, neck down.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

 

Good.  Don't confuse it with crimping........................................

[Pygmy]

 

My expectations were 1.5" groups or better, and I think I have achieved that. Now everything under is bonus, and I'm trying to see just how lucky I am.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

 

Nothing wrong with that...

Those sub 1" groups with a HUNTING rifle are cool, and add to the fun and satisfaction of handloading.

Actually, 2 of the three rifles that I use for most of my my big game hunting will do that with selected loads, and one of them does it with 250 grain bullets.

However, the third one works hard day in and day out to stay under 2", and despite that, it is a killing machine. I've used it to kill everything from woodchucks to moose, from point blank to 400+ yards.. Just goes to show you don't need benchrest accuracy to have an effective hunting rifle.

[shawnhu]

Nothing wrong with that...

Those sub 1" groups with a HUNTING rifle are cool, and add to the fun and satisfaction of handloading.

Actually, 2 of the three rifles that I use for most of my my big game hunting will do that with selected loads, and one of them does it with 250 grain bullets.

However, the third one works hard day in and day out to stay under 2", and despite that, it is a killing machine. I've used it to kill everything from woodchucks to moose, from point blank to 400+ yards.. Just goes to show you don't need benchrest accuracy to have an effective hunting rifle.

It's my belief that a good hunter either uses an accurate implement, or a great bullet to match the game they intend to take. A great one uses both.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[shawnhu]

This is what mine look like

After doing some digging, I realized this style pin is from the full length die. Do you do neck sizing? Is that how that pin looks like as well?

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[Culvercreek hunt club]

After doing some digging, I realized this style pin is from the full length die. Do you do neck sizing? Is that how that pin looks like as well?

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

I will check the ,06 dies. I neck size them. I looked at the 270 that I FL size.