another question in my li quest

[nyantler]

I have been saying for a good long while now that hunters themselves are huntings worst enemies.  Anti-hunters, government, gun-grabbers haven't done a fraction of the damage that hunters themselves have done.  Of course most hunters will continue to argue how much MORE intelligent and upstanding citizens we are supposed to be than the other  side.  I've got some news for them, I am sorry to say.

I know we don't agree on alot Steve but that I agree with totally...

[finfeathr]

As far as being able to enter onto not posted property, I  do not post my backyard, does that make it legal for somebody to decide to come have a barbeque in my yard?

No....because your land is obviously not "uninhabited."

Complain to your lawmakers, not to those who follow the letter of the law.

I understand letter of the law, but the bottom line is, you know damn well it isn't yours, so why would you not just do the right thing and ask first? The landowner is certainly going to have a crappy outlook on all hunters from that point on..but I guess some of you don't care..you got away with it, and screw the next guy, who cares? After all, all you have to do is drive down the road to a spot where the posted sign blew down, and you're in like Flynn again, right?

I have said it before, and I will say it again: we are our own worst enemies, hunters will eat thier own young.

6 pages later, and not one person that waves the no posted sign flag can answer the question honestly:

Why can't you just do the right, honest, moral, ethical, and most of all, RESPECTFUL thing, and ask permission before entering property that is obviously not your own?

I swear, this thread has taught me one thing, some people get so hung up on a technicality, that they throw common sense out the window...

Be respectful, do the right thing, and show a positive image of your fellow hunters..is that too much to ask?

[Ford]

Posted or not...you dont have permission..you are tresspassing..we have posted land that borders the railroad..i kick people out every yr that walk the trax(illegal to shoot from and hunt)...but that dont stop em..

Wrong.

From DEC website..

Q. Must I post to keep people off my property?

A. No. Trespassing is illegal even on unposted property, unless it is unimproved, apparently unused and unfenced (or not otherwise enclosed to exclude intruders.) Even on vacant land, a written notice delivered in person (or by certified mail with a signed receipt, etc.) to any person, in the name of the landowner or authorized party, containing a description of the premises and a warning of restrictions which apply has the same effect, for that person, as if the land were posted with those restrictions. Likewise, anyone asked to leave the premises, posted or not, by the landowner, occupant or other authorized person, must do so immediately.

[Ford]

Why can't you just do the right, honest, moral, ethical, and most of all, RESPECTFUL thing, and ask permission before entering property that is obviously not your own?

I swear, this thread has taught me one thing, some people get so hung up on a technicality, that they throw common sense out the window...

Be respectful, do the right thing, and show a positive image of your fellow hunters..is that too much to ask?

Most likely because I do not find it a moral or ethical problem at all. I post my property. It was very easy/inexpensive. I did it because I did not want people on it. If I did not care, I would leave it unposted, and would expect it to be hunted...Very simple. I posted it because I know the law, and if I did not, I could expect it to be used.

[Pat Rockets]

Yer missin a part..the property owner may issue a verbal warning..meaning..you get busted and dont leave.. you may be arrested.. your sending the wrong signals..and i gotta ask what your idea of unused and unkept or uninhabited..that sounds like squaters rights

[Pat Rockets]

Im a dumbass..it was in there..but what do you think that means anyway...posted or not..no permission..and you argue about leaving..in any aspect..that doesnt sound like i can go just anywhere..

[finfeathr]

Why can't you just do the right, honest, moral, ethical, and most of all, RESPECTFUL thing, and ask permission before entering property that is obviously not your own?

I swear, this thread has taught me one thing, some people get so hung up on a technicality, that they throw common sense out the window...

Be respectful, do the right thing, and show a positive image of your fellow hunters..is that too much to ask?

Most likely because I do not find it a moral or ethical problem at all. I post my property. It was very easy/inexpensive. I did it because I did not want people on it. If I did not care, I would leave it unposted, and would expect it to be hunted...Very simple. I posted it because I know the law, and if I did not, I could expect it to be used.

And that right there is the problem...YOU didn't see it as an ethical problem, even though it clearly is. It's all about how you justify it.

I also find it interesting how you post your own property to keep others out, but have no qualms about entering another parcel, just because that landowner did not...you are truly a unique individual, and do your fellow sportsmen proud.

You will hold your nose in the air and proclaim to all that will listen that you can go where you want, but you still can't just do the right thing and ask permission first.

We will eat our own young. When your favorite pastime is gone, make sure you clap yourself on the back for your intense efforts to speed it along...

It MIGHT not be gone in your lifetime, but I doubt the kids are going to be able to hunt in the next generation if this is the example you are going to set for them.

[G-Man]

I really don't understand how a lot of hunters think unposted land is huntable? It's very simple if you don't own it someone else does! I think this is why there is so much land posted today! Second so the land is posted unhuntable right? Wrong most landowners just want to know who is on their property and where! this aviods running into each other/shooting in each others direction. third when you do get permission to hunt posted land was it given just to you? if so don't bring along friends this is a really quick way to lose the permission recieved.  I wish nys would go to a system like ohio where you need written permission from the landowner and must be able to present it on demand,if the land is posted or not!

[arrowflinger]

I really don't understand how a lot of hunters think unposted land is huntable? It's very simple if you don't own it someone else does!

I don't know how many actually would condone the practice (I do not), but the law is very clear.

It is legal to hunt on unposted, unfenced, uninhabited land.  If you are told to get out by the landowner (or his representative) you must then treat the land as if it were posted.

Its a stupid law.  But that is the law.

[Pat Rockets]

:oso hunt there till you get  caught?  nice message

Do the right thing: dont be an arrow flinger

[arrowflinger]

:oso hunt there till you get  caught?  nice message

Do the right thing: dont be an arrow flinger

So....the first thing you need to do is stop assuming that just because someone is explaining the loophole in the law to you means that they are exploiting that loophole, or even supporting that loophole.

I am just telling you how it is.  I hunt 2 properties, WITH permission.  One is posted, one is not.

I can not run trespassers out of the unposted property because it is unposted, and not mine. 

It is just a fact of life.

[steve863]

I am just telling you how it is.  I hunt 2 properties, WITH permission.  One is posted, one is not.

I can not run trespassers out of the unposted property because it is unposted, and not mine. 

It is just a fact of life.

Hmmm, I would think that the owner could ask someone to leave his unposted property, couldn't they?  If you have specific permission from the owner to hunt this unposted property I would think you could ask someone to leave also.  That is why this issue is a muddy one and can lead to a lot of trouble.  It's simply best NOT to hunt land that you don't have permission whether it's posted or not.  Using this quirky law as a defense simply won't cut it in the majority of cases in my honest opinion.  It's bound to cause problems and end in a not so nice fashion.

[arrowflinger]

I am just telling you how it is.  I hunt 2 properties, WITH permission.  One is posted, one is not.

I can not run trespassers out of the unposted property because it is unposted, and not mine. 

It is just a fact of life.

Hmmm, I would think that the owner could ask someone to leave his unposted property, couldn't they?  If you have specific permission from the owner to hunt this unposted property I would think you could ask someone to leave also.  That is why this issue is a muddy one and can lead to a lot of trouble.  It's simply best NOT to hunt land that you don't have permission whether it's posted or not.  Using this quirky law as a defense simply won't cut it in the majority of cases in my honest opinion.  It's bound to cause problems and end in a not so nice fashion.

I agree.  The law needs to be changed.

I can't run anyone off because the owner really doesn't care who hunts on it.  He is fine with people walking on and hunting it.

Last year I had a dude walk in with a ladder stand and start setting up 50 yards from me.  I got his attention, and he hollered "Do you have permission to hunt here?"

I said "Yes....Do you?"

He said...."Its not posted." :

[steve863]

I agree.  The law needs to be changed.

I can't run anyone off because the owner really doesn't care who hunts on it.  He is fine with people walking on and hunting it.

Last year I had a dude walk in with a ladder stand and start setting up 50 yards from me.  I got his attention, and he hollered "Do you have permission to hunt here?"

I said "Yes....Do you?"

He said...."Its not posted." :

I guess that would just be another good reason for me NOT to want to hunt this property.  If someone can set-up 50 yards from me on private land, it's not something I want to deal with.  I might as well hunt public land then.

[Pat Rockets]

Sounds fabricated..why would someone come off  a permission question and turn around and give it the its not posted answer...worst tresspasser ever

[Ford]

And that right there is the problem...YOU didn't see it as an ethical problem, even though it clearly is. It's all about how you justify it.

I also find it interesting how you post your own property to keep others out, but have no qualms about entering another parcel, just because that landowner did not...you are truly a unique individual, and do your fellow sportsmen proud.

You will hold your nose in the air and proclaim to all that will listen that you can go where you want, but you still can't just do the right thing and ask permission first.

We will eat our own young. When your favorite pastime is gone, make sure you clap yourself on the back for your intense efforts to speed it along...

It MIGHT not be gone in your lifetime, but I doubt the kids are going to be able to hunt in the next generation if this is the example you are going to set for them.

Man, you are so dramatic.

Thanks for calling me unique.

Listen, I have never, ever been asked to leave a property by a landowner. In fact I have not hunted private land on LI for quite a few years. 20-25 years ago there used to be private land that everyone hunted, it was not posted. I wanted to make sure I was following the rules and asked a police officer. He told me the law and said it was no problem. I hunted it for quail a few years, until it was built upon.

I am setting an example for no one. I am not hurting hunting in any way. That is actually funny. I followed the rules my whole life, even as a kid, as I wanted to be in the Law Enforcement field. I never violated a game law. Ever.

Thats about the size of it. Why would you want to turn this discussion to something personal about me? You do not know me. You were attacking the original poster in the guise of "ethics," without taking into consideration local customs, and the law.

[Pat Rockets]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz......

[finfeathr]

Not a personal attack in any way, but your posts seem to promote behavior that is damaging to hunting's image. Even if you don't do it, if you're telling everyone else it's ok, you are certainly contributing to the problem.

To all that are following this thread....

ALWAYS find out who owns the land and get permission before venturing on....it's the ethical, moral, and respectful thing to do, and you will go a long way to promote POSITIVE  hunter image.

[arrowflinger]

Sounds fabricated..why would someone come off  a permission question and turn around and give it the its not posted answer...worst tresspasser ever

Hence the irony....tough to put one past you, dude. :

[Pat Rockets]

Oh huckleberry

[bellmorekennels]

Into the 7th page now and still same story, I can understand the argument from the guys saying they can hunt legally on unposted property(even though I do not agree with it), but can the same people understand how it is going to kill our sport one day?

Also on hunting unposted property, and lets say 2 guys that do not have permission bump into each other and one claims to know the owner,but has no proof, should the other guy leave, and lets say he does not and an argument happens, and the law or dec gets involved, do you think anybody will ever be allowed to hunt on this property again? On long island this has happened, I am sure. I guess there is unlimited amount of property for us to hunt so it doesnt matter, right?

Please guys, look at both sides of fence, and think of the future of hunting for our kids.

[arrowflinger]

Into the 7th page now and still same story, I can understand the argument from the guys saying they can hunt legally on unposted property(even though I do not agree with it), but can the same people understand how it is going to kill our sport one day?

Also on hunting unposted property, and lets say 2 guys that do not have permission bump into each other and one claims to know the owner,but has no proof, should the other guy leave, and lets say he does not and an argument happens, and the law or dec gets involved, do you think anybody will ever be allowed to hunt on this property again? On long island this has happened, I am sure. I guess there is unlimited amount of property for us to hunt so it doesnt matter, right?

Please guys, look at both sides of fence, and think of the future of hunting for our kids.

I think it is an overstatement to say that it would "kill our sport."

Trespassing on posted property is far more damaging to our image than legally hunting unposted property.  So is road hunting, baiting, etc.  I would bet all of these happen far more than any issues on unposted land, primarily because there is not a lot of unposted land around to begin with.

I think the law needs to be changed to protect landowners' rights.  I agree that it should be illegal to hunt on land without permission.  But I highly doubt it is very damaging to our sport, let alone that it would "kill" it.

[steve863]

Please guys, look at both sides of fence, and think of the future of hunting for our kids.

Really good post!  That has always been my main issue with hunters and gun owners.  Their inability to look at things from the other side.  Without doing so we will most certainly end up on the losing end.

[bellmorekennels]

Thanks steve. Hey arrow I agree that it is legal to hunt on unposted property,we each have our own view on what to do, but not every landowner will post property each year, and if they do not and the signs fall off or hunters or any body removes signs, and we go on that property and have issues with land owners, it Will affect us in a negative way, and any bad publicity we get will add fule to the fire of anti hunters and tree huggers that would like nothing better than to not hunt,escpecially long island.

Hunting or entering onto private property and not having those bad experiences is something we can control, and if may either take a knock on a door or a telephone call to ask permission, I think it is a safer bet than having that land owner just say no to hunters because of bad experiences. Again this is how I see it, and we all have our own opinions.

I used to own 40 acres upstate near liberty, and hunted deer and rabbit on it, I did post it but there was always an area in the back that ended up not having signs, and i told anybody entering just call me before they enter signs or not, and if I was not hunting would let anybody hunt. Guess what, after few months the signs stayed on the trees all year, and didnt fall off like before, when guys were giving me the no sign excuse.

Again these are my experiences.

[finfeathr]

Into the 7th page now and still same story, I can understand the argument from the guys saying they can hunt legally on unposted property(even though I do not agree with it), but can the same people understand how it is going to kill our sport one day?

Also on hunting unposted property, and lets say 2 guys that do not have permission bump into each other and one claims to know the owner,but has no proof, should the other guy leave, and lets say he does not and an argument happens, and the law or dec gets involved, do you think anybody will ever be allowed to hunt on this property again? On long island this has happened, I am sure. I guess there is unlimited amount of property for us to hunt so it doesnt matter, right?

Please guys, look at both sides of fence, and think of the future of hunting for our kids.

I think it is an overstatement to say that it would "kill our sport."

Trespassing on posted property is far more damaging to our image than legally hunting unposted property.  So is road hunting, baiting, etc.  I would bet all of these happen far more than any issues on unposted land, primarily because there is not a lot of unposted land around to begin with.

I think the law needs to be changed to protect landowners' rights.  I agree that it should be illegal to hunt on land without permission.  But I highly doubt it is very damaging to our sport, let alone that it would "kill" it.

You say it's an overstatement that it will kill our sport, because you are from the Finger lakes region, where hunting and guns are still a part of everyday life... On L.I., those are dirty words..the general public has a disdain for all things guns and hunting down here. There are constant attacks on the sport and it's implements on the island. The bambi lovers, bunny huggers, anti hunting, anti gun and tree hugger groups have done significant damage here. They are constantly trying to pass no discharge ordinances, make entire townships [including bat bottoms] illegal to hunt, and close down ranges. I cannot tell you how many times a customer drops off an animal for mounting at my shop, and gets horns blown at them along with cursing and a middle finger salute.

The fear of an end to it all on L.I. is legitimate, I assure you.