NY DEC pushing to ban lead ammo again.

[Grouse]

 

NYS Hunters Only

Tony Giaconelli  

 

 

Pay attention, first paragraph, where is the proof??

For example, let’s say if an eagle eats a rat or mouse that ate rat poison and the eagle dies, when they test the eagle for cause of death and they find a tiny bit of lead in its system, guess what? The eagle died from lead poisoning!!

SOUNDS LIKE COVID STATISTICS DOESN’T IT???

The DEC is asking for cooperation from anyone with trail cam photos from gut piles or carcasses showing eagles etc. DO NOT send any photos of protected wildlife feeding on these piles. They will use this against us in the name of saving the Eagles!!

They WANT TO BAN LEAD AMMUNITION!!!

Wake up!

Are coyotes, fishers and other predators dying from lead poisoning??? No, they aren’t. Eagles will get more public attention. That’s what they will use against the hunting community.

Paragraph two, who is working at these organizations??

College grads who maybe (maybe) never hunted a day in their lives.

Read it!!! Don’t buy into the rebate BS to get the rebate for non-lead ammo. If you do, you are helping them in their goal to ban lead bullets!!

If they get zero cooperation, their research is inconclusive!

I am a lifelong hunter and conservationist, retired NYS Hunting and Fishing guide. I have never seen so many Bald Eagles in all my years, and I enjoy the fact that there are so many around these days.

DDT was the Eagles enemy years ago; they addressed the problem, and the eagles came back strong!!

Lead bullets are not killing the eagles.

There is strength in numbers, we must stick together.

Open your eyes, spread the word,

I’ll probably be on the radar now, but I’m a passionate when it comes to hunting and wildlife and play by the rules.

Happy and safe hunting to all.

 

 

[Curmudgeon]

Grouse is talking nonsense. Up is down. Black is white. DEC is a partner in a Multi-Year study. Hopefully what will be developed from that study will be a defensible mitigation method to compensate for eagle kills in NYS. It is being funded by millions of dollars from Bluestone Wind  - a project that never should have been built because of its impact on eagles. The project is in prime Golden Eagle wintering and migratory habitat. 

In New York there are ways to mitigate wind impacts on Bald Eagles because they nest here. The same is not true for Golden Eagles. In the west they retrofit power poles to prevent electrocution. That doesn't work in a place with countless perches.

 If Grouse's fear came to pass, if lead were banned, the study would end up meaningless. There would remain no viable way to compensate for the deaths of Golden Eagles. 

Hunters in the study area should get a DMP and some free ammo.

[Grouse]

If you look again, you will see this is not coming from me.  Take it up with Mr. Giaconelli.

Personally, I do not see your point here.  A windmill farm was allowed and is killing Golden Eagles, so the DEC wants to push a study on lead ammo used by deer hunters?  How do you connect those two?

Aside from that, we all know lead ammo is on the radar for all anti-hunting groups across the nation and NY has been pushing a ban on lead ammo in the NYC watershed areas, even on private land.  The nonsense being discussed is not coming from hunters who fear DEC oppression that is ineffective and meaningless regarding Golden Eagles.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Grouse

[Curmudgeon]

A wind project that is expected to kill eagles must have a Net Conservation Benefit Plan.  That means, they must take action to save more eagles (that would have died from other causes) than the project is expected to kill. It doesn't matter how they end up with a net increase in each eagle species. It can be by protecting nests, retrofitting power poles. However, it needs to be acceptable to federal and state wildlife agencies. So far, the agencies have not been willing to accept lead abatement because there hasn't been enough research. 

That eagles die from eating lead contaminated meat and gut piles is not in doubt. What isn't known is how a non-lead ammunition distribution program will impact eagle survival. The study will attempt to quantify that in an area with a lot of deer and a lot of eagles. 

If lead ammo is banned for hunting, this possible mitigation method no longer exists. With no other possibilities, DEC cannot (legally) approve projects that would kill Golden Eagles. 

Sorry I didn't get that it wasn't your text but you did pass on bad information. 

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Curmudgeon

[Doc]

I have to wonder how any eagles even exist at all today. How many centuries have we been using lead ammo, and all of a sudden, eagles are endangered my lead ammo? Also, it seems that the eagle population is thriving these days in spite of the continued use of lead ammo. 

[Grouse]

Sounds to me like they are saying if they prove lead ammo kills eagles, they will ban it to allow eagles to be killed by windmills.  They will call it a wash and it will be approved.  No eagles will be saved, just the way they are killed will be regulated.

[airedale]

More libtard back door hogwash, as for copper bullets for hunting, way overrated and over priced.

You only have to look at California to see what traditional ammo bans have done for the hunting and shooting sports.

Al

[Grouse]

Does the Golden Eagle migration coincide with the firearm deer seasons?  If not, hunting deer with normal ammo shouldn't be an issue.

Also, how many states do they migrate through?  Will all of the states be doing this study?  Will they all ban lead ammo if a ban is proposed?

Personally I'm all for not approving windmill farms and leaving hunters alone.  But the one's with the deepest pockets usually triumph.  The science doesn't matter.  In fact, the scientific surveys often produce the results preferred by those who have paid for them.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Grouse

[Grouse]

Lead ammo banners are looking for any way they can ban lead ammo.

https://www.nrahlf.org/articles/2023/8/1/minnesota-dnr-bans-lead-ammo-on-some-public-hunting-areas-federal-ammo-issues-letter-supporting-hunters/?utm_source=newsletter

[Grouse]

The Honorable Sarah Strommen
Commissioner
Minnesota Department of Natural Resources
500 Lafayette Road
Saint Paul, MN 55155

Re: DNR Order Banning Lead Ammunition on Some State Lands

Dear Commissioner Strommen:

Federal Ammunition has been in Anoka, MN for more than 100 years. We are the world leader in ammunition design and manufacturing, and we proudly employ more than 1,500 Minnesotans. These are high quality local jobs. The city, county and neighbors have historically supported what we do because of the social, economic, and philanthropic benefits we bring to the region.

We are astonished by the recent Minnesota Department of Natural Resources (DNR) order banning the use of traditional ammunition on 56 Scientific and Natural Areas (SNAs) across the state. The order will affect thousands of hunters who pursue game within these SNAs each year, and greatly harms one of Minnesota’s economic engines; the firearms and ammunition industries.

Federal's position on the use of lead ammunition is driven by science, therefore it must be concrete, not theoretic. We support science driven decisions by professional wildlife managers, which in this case is the consumer’s choice. Those same professionals have a responsibility to implement regulations backed by the integrity of facts. Wildlife managers who fail to follow the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation undermine the foundation of the most successful wildlife management paradigms.

Minnesota DNR policy should focus on maintaining and growing hunting opportunities for all, not catering to the opinions of the extremes. This DNR decision was made in isolation – no alternative viewpoints or stakeholder perspectives considered. An issue as important as this should have full transparency as well as stakeholder input and should be determined through the legislative process and not via agency directives. Constituents have no recourse and therefore cannot hold anyone accountable at the ballot box.

This action builds barriers to resident and non-resident enjoyment of our hunting heritage and the great outdoors. It will contribute to a price spike for Minnesota ammunition consumers. Alternative hunting ammunition (made of copper, tungsten, or bismuth) is significantly more expensive to manufacture and to purchase than traditional counterparts.

It is our belief the action taken was done based on theoretic claims of population harm while Bald Eagles and other raptors flourish. In fact, the MN DNR states the eagle recovery is a “conservation success story” and that the population has exceeded its recovery goal and continues to grow by over 30 nesting pairs per year.

There are significant negative environmental and economic consequences that follow this short-sighted policy. Traditional lead ammunition is almost entirely composed of recycled materials sourced here in Minnesota whereas alternative types of ammunition require mining or resource extraction imported from overseas or other states. Sourcing and employing locally is the right thing for Minnesota’s environment and economy.

We are consistently the largest contributor in the nation to the Pittman-Robertson Wildlife Restoration Trust Fund (WRTF). We are an important stakeholder in Minnesota’s management of wildlife and wild places. We are proud to support conservation through the federal excise tax, an 11% excise tax on every ammunition purchase. In 2022, the firearms and ammunition businesses combined to generate more than $3.6 billion in economic output throughout the nation, putting Minnesota in the Top 10 for jobs, economic activity, and excise tax contributions. This policy undermines that support and dismisses industry input and ironically will hurt the very population it is intended to help. With less ammunition sold, there will be less money funding conservation through the Pittman-Robertson federal excise tax program.

In summary, this decision is made in contradiction to the science as it creates no measurable wildlife benefit. It dismisses strong Minnesotan/American jobs while promoting unnecessary and intensive resource extraction. This is yet another razor’s cut at an outright ban of traditional ammunition, and ultimately, hunting as a scientific management tool.

We respectfully request that this rule be withdrawn and request a meeting with you, your staff, and the Governor. This order did not include a legislative process, public comment period or industry dialogue and the only certain result is harming hunters, Minnesota’s work force, and the future of wildlife management funding in Minnesota.

Sincerely,

Jason Vanderbrink
President and Chief Executive Officer
Sporting Products, Vista Outdoor
CCI, Federal, Hevi-Shot, Remington, Speer Ammunition

Edited August 10, 2023 by Grouse

[Grouse]

More govt attempts to ban lead ammo: