A new vaccine to stop CWD has been proven to work.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Well if a ranch is righting all there hunts off then they probably should worry more about the IRS than the DEC. You report as income. The ranch will report as income. Those two Alone out weigh the cost of lost out of state licenses for those hunts.

Now I can see the govt not wanting to shut down commerce from infected states for $$$. But that still doesn't shore up the argument as to why the high fences is in the crosshairs. Money just doesn't hold water as an argument

Well when you come up with a better one feel free to speak up. Cant be the CWD itself because its a proven its done nothing and its a proven that they are not doing everything in their powers to stop the spread.

 States are even ok with letting CWD free into their states and introducing possible CWD to place that have never seen a case in the past.

If not cash..Please do tell...

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Really not trying to continue a pissing match but you made the claims about money as a motivator and the loss of license sales. Unless the farmers and high fence operators are all crooks and not reporting income, the math doesn't work. With all the effort your groups have put into this haven't they evaluated possible motivations of those pushing this?

[sampotter]

Nice..I could go back a nit-pick auctions and show you a doe that sold for $250,000 means nothing...High fence is in about every state in the country and every state demands that kind of money. Dairy cattle, Not so much. 150in yearling will bring you 3 grand all day,every day in Ny.  Try that with beef or Dairy. 12 months old.

 

Regardless, I see you dont have any other explanation for the lack of interest on the other CWD home fronts!

 

I guess you know more about dairy farming and purebred cattle than I do.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I guess you know more about dairy farming and purebred cattle than I do.

Nope never said that but i can throw just as many big numbers on animals as you can.  Funny how nobody has the answers to any of the questions about looking in a different direction for CWD...No shocker there.

[sampotter]

There's been enough threads on here where people have posted studies, articles, etc. and every time you discredit them as being biased or driven by a hidden agenda. There's no point in beating a dead horse. You're as stubborn as they come and to you the only correct side of the argument is yours. I just keep replying for fun; I know I'm not going to change your opinion.

 

I would've thought you would have blisters on your fingers by now from all that typing...

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Really not trying to continue a pissing match but you made the claims about money as a motivator and the loss of license sales. Unless the farmers and high fence operators are all crooks and not reporting income, the math doesn't work. With all the effort your groups have put into this haven't they evaluated possible motivations of those pushing this?

Just telling you the facts my friend. Every hunter that high fence needs not buy a tag from the state. That is a fact.  If a person hunts high fence once they will most likely hunt there forever. Deer farms are listed as an ag business with the USDA so we run our farms just like any dairy farm would. The state of Ny Dept of Ag and DEC are 2 different animals.   We know exactly what their motivation is and it has been shown over and over just as you yourself cant answer the questions with any other reasonable answers.

 

So you go right ahead and explain this to me!!!!

 

 

Could reintroduced elk transmit diseases to domestic livestock and native wildlife?

Livestock and wildlife health is critically important to us. We are working very closely with the Missouri Department of Agriculture and State Veterinarian on stringent animal-health protocols to prevent the importation of diseased elk. Our disease protocols for elk restoration are more stringent than any existing disease protocols for livestock or privately imported elk and deer.

We are also working with other states that have successfully restored elk and have used what they have learned to develop our elk restoration plan that is based on research and sound science by wildlife experts.

According the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, no elk reintroduction program in which the RMEF has participated has resulted in spreading disease. We will be working with the RMEF on our elk restoration to southeast Missouri.

As is the case with all wild and domestic animals, elk can serve as hosts for a variety of diseases and parasites. The potential for disease has been minimized in other states where elk restoration has occurred by following strict health protocols and guidelines. As a result, no disease transmission from reintroduced elk to livestock or wildlife has been reported or documented.

Since 2000, there has been significant progress made in our understanding of chronic wasting disease (CWD), including a live-animal test for elk. Our extensive animal health protocols include testing all elk for chronic wasting disease.

Elk relocated into Missouri for the purposes of the elk restoration originate from a CWD-free state and from herds with a history of health surveillance and no evidence of health issues. Imported elk are tested for CWD, brucellosis, blue tongue, anaplasmosis, epizootic hemorrhagic disease, vesicular stomatitis, Johne's disease and bovine tuberculosis prior to shipment to Missouri.

The Missouri Department of Health and Senior Services states that there is no evidence that CWD can infect people. The Missouri Department of Agriculture states that current research shows there is no evidence that CWD can spread from infected deer or elk to livestock, such as sheep or cattle

 

 

Be informed and get involved

MDC has finished its eight public meetings held around the state on Protecting Missouri’s White-tailed Deer. The Department continues to welcome comments on this issue. All comments will be considered as MDC formulates possible regulation changes related to this topic. These regulation changes will be presented to the Missouri Conservation Commission for its consideration in the near future.

Learn more about CWD below and then share your comments on limiting the spread of CWD and other infectious diseases at Protecting Missouri’s White-Tailed Deer below.

CWD kills deer

Chronic wasting disease infects deer and other members of the deer family, called cervids. CWD belongs to a group of diseases known as transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs) which cause degeneration of the brain in cervids. CWD is transmitted through prions, which are abnormal proteins that attack the nervous systems of these species. These prions accumulate in the brain, spinal cord, eyes, spleen, and lymph nodes of infected animals.

CWD is spread both directly from deer to deer and indirectly to deer from infected soil and other surfaces. Animals with signs of CWD show changes in natural behavior and can exhibit extreme weight loss, excessive salivation, stumbling, and tremors. CWD in deer can only be confirmed by laboratory tests of brain stem or lymph tissue from harvested animals.

The disease has no vaccine or cure. CWD is 100-percent fatal. Deer and other cervids can have CWD for several years without showing any symptoms. Once symptoms are visible, infected animals typically die within one or two months.

There is no scientific evidence that white-tailed deer have a genetic immunity to CWD that could be passed on to future generations.

Once well established in an area, CWD is impossible to eradicate. States with CWD must focus on limiting the spread of the disease and preventing its introduction to new areas.

 

So there ya go. Right straight of of this states website. Now if you can try and defend this as not singling out deer farms and showing just what their agenda is then you are clearly on the other team and have their same agenda.

Their animals can be live tested with enough accuracy to not worry about bringing CWD into their state but they have to shut the border to deer farms because there is no test unless they are dead!!!!    Riiiiiiight!!!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

x2.

 

Edited January 3, 2015 by Four Season Whitetails

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Just telling you the facts my friend. Every hunter that high fence needs not buy a tag from the state. That is a fact. If a person hunts high fence once they will most likely hunt there forever. Deer farms are listed as an ag business with the USDA so we run our farms just like any dairy farm would. The state of Ny Dept of Ag and DEC are 2 different animals. We know exactly what their motivation is and it has been shown over and over just as you yourself cant answer the questions with any other reasonable answers.

So you go right ahead and explain this to me!!!!

Could reintroduced elk transmit diseases to domestic livestock and native wildlife?

Livestock and wildlife health is critically important to us. We are working very closely with the Missouri Department of Agriculture and State Veterinarian on stringent animal-health protocols to prevent the importation of diseased elk. Our disease protocols for elk restoration are more stringent than any existing disease protocols for livestock or privately imported elk and deer.

We are also working with other states that have successfully restored elk and have used what they have learned to develop our elk restoration plan that is based on research and sound science by wildlife experts.

According the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, no elk reintroduction program in which the RMEF has participated has resulted in spreading disease. We will be working with the RMEF on our elk restoration to southeast Missouri.

As is the case with all wild and domestic animals, elk can serve as hosts for a variety of diseases and parasites. The potential for disease has been minimized in other states where elk restoration has occurred by following strict health protocols and guidelines. As a result, no disease transmission from reintroduced elk to livestock or wildlife has been reported or documented.

Since 2000, there has been significant progress made in our understanding of chronic wasting disease (CWD), including a live-animal test for elk. Our extensive animal health protocols include testing all elk for chronic wasting disease.

Elk relocated into Missouri for the purposes of the elk restoration originate from a CWD-free state and from herds with a history of health surveillance and no evidence of health issues. Imported elk are tested for CWD, brucellosis, blue tongue, anaplasmosis, epizootic hemorrhagic disease, vesicular stomatitis, Johne's disease and bovine tuberculosis prior to shipment to Missouri.

The Missouri Department of Health and Senior Services states that there is no evidence that CWD can infect people. The Missouri Department of Agriculture states that current research shows there is no evidence that CWD can spread from infected deer or elk to livestock, such as sheep or cattle

Be informed and get involved

MDC has finished its eight public meetings held around the state on Protecting Missouri’s White-tailed Deer. The Department continues to welcome comments on this issue. All comments will be considered as MDC formulates possible regulation changes related to this topic. These regulation changes will be presented to the Missouri Conservation Commission for its consideration in the near future.

Learn more about CWD below and then share your comments on limiting the spread of CWD and other infectious diseases at Protecting Missouri’s White-Tailed Deer below. CWD kills deer

Chronic wasting disease infects deer and other members of the deer family, called cervids. CWD belongs to a group of diseases known as transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs) which cause degeneration of the brain in cervids. CWD is transmitted through prions, which are abnormal proteins that attack the nervous systems of these species. These prions accumulate in the brain, spinal cord, eyes, spleen, and lymph nodes of infected animals.

CWD is spread both directly from deer to deer and indirectly to deer from infected soil and other surfaces. Animals with signs of CWD show changes in natural behavior and can exhibit extreme weight loss, excessive salivation, stumbling, and tremors. CWD in deer can only be confirmed by laboratory tests of brain stem or lymph tissue from harvested animals.

The disease has no vaccine or cure. CWD is 100-percent fatal. Deer and other cervids can have CWD for several years without showing any symptoms. Once symptoms are visible, infected animals typically die within one or two months.

There is no scientific evidence that white-tailed deer have a genetic immunity to CWD that could be passed on to future generations.

Once well established in an area, CWD is impossible to eradicate. States with CWD must focus on limiting the spread of the disease and preventing its introduction to new areas.

So there ya go. Right straight of of this states website. Now if you can try and defend this as not singling out deer farms and showing just what their agenda is then you are clearly on the other team and have their same agenda.

Their animals can be live tested with enough accuracy to not worry about bringing CWD into their state but they have to shut the border to deer farms because there is no test unless they are dead!!!! Riiiiiiight!!!

how much does the average hunt go for?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

how much does the average hunt go for?

All states are different,  but hunts have nothing to do with CWD, If it about the disease.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

They may have in your assertion that it about the money. Since we are in NY. What do they average?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Ny hunts would average in the 4500-5500 range i would have to say. Some cater to the higher class hunts in Ny that average 15,000-25,000 but over all if i were to guess i would use 5 grand.

[jjb4900]

I find it hard to believe that loss of hunting license sales revenue is behind the attack on farm raised deer and penned hunts...if the amount of people purchasing and hunting farm raised deer is as high as stated, the amount of sales tax associated with it would probably balance it out.....a couple thousand dollars is peanuts in this State when it comes down to it.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I find it hard to believe that loss of hunting license sales revenue is behind the attack on farm raised deer and penned hunts...if the amount of people purchasing and hunting farm raised deer is as high as stated, the amount of sales tax associated with it would probably balance it out.....a couple thousand dollars is peanuts in this State when it comes down to it.

Very well could be and any spin one wants to put on it can be added but the facts hold the same. The pen is a mighty weapon!

 

All one has to do is read most write up..Heck they even did it in the Ny Outdoor News...Starts as a CWD write up and with a paragraph or two its all about high dollar hunters killing high scoring whitetails..If that does not set the stage for ya i'm not sure what will.

[Doc]

CASH! Plain and simple.  They know what we make. They see our 80 breeding animals bring 3 million at our auctions.They see we have 6-8 auctions a year that bring in 2-5 million in sale every year that goes to the high fence industry. They see the average guy with a small 4 acre farm making an extra 50 plus grand a year as a hobby.  They see we have the fastest growing industry in the ag business. Believe it or not, I have had 8 calls so far this winter from folks wanting info on startup details and 3 of those folks are off these forums.

 

Doc, You are a smart man. If you can answer any off the Questions above please have at it.  Why are they trying to stop CWD only on the deer farm front? Its in the soil. They dont stop anything there, Its in Corn and Alfalfa, They dont stop sales, They say THEY have a LIVE test for them to repopulate their states with Elk but in the same breath say they have to close the borders to deer farmers moving elk and deer because there is no test good enough and they have to be Dead to test.

 

This is all being done at state levels. If you look at the USDA federal standards on deer farms and see what rules they made for farms you will see that Patty Klein( Who was hired to run this and she comes right off the animal activist leader board, Talk about a fox in the hen house) wrote in the standards that states cane make their own rules above and beyond the federal standards. USDA rules are no where near state rules and this was done to give power to the states to force out farms. Hence Ny closing their borders. Who closed Ny borders? Joe Martens, Who is he? DEC leader. What does deer farms and high fence take from him? Cash! Plain and simple.

 

I really would like to hear your thoughts on the above questions about why nothing is being done on any other CWD front?  We all know CWD has proven itself to do absolutely nothing to any herds anywhere in the country.

But i will say for the record for all to remember...You watch how fast CWD becomes a thing of the past if Canada signs these papers saying they will no longer buy hay or grains out of CWD positive states!!!  Cash! Plain and Simple!

No, I have no more interest in the subject beyond questioning motives for twisting and slanting what. I will leave the causes and cures and assessments of CWD to those biologists trained in the field, and will forgo trying to second guess them or ascribe some kind of conspiracy theory. I simply was curious as to what possible motives the state would have for lying, and trying to drive a business out of the state. I still have not heard one that really makes any sense. I think they have a lot more motive for protecting businesses. They too have a profit motive, and cash does not come from businesses drummed out of the state. 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

No, I have no more interest in the subject beyond questioning motives for twisting and slanting what. I will leave the causes and cures and assessments of CWD to those biologists trained in the field, and will forgo trying to second guess them or ascribe some kind of conspiracy theory. I simply was curious as to what possible motives the state would have for lying, and trying to drive a business out of the state. I still have not heard one that really makes any sense. I think they have a lot more motive for protecting businesses. They too have a profit motive, and cash does not come from businesses drummed out of the state. 

Good save Doc. If you say no words now you will eat no words later!  It pretty simple to see how just the one state above is playing their agenda. We all will be reading those words again except it will be in transcript.

 

You say you believe the state has more motive for protecting business in Ny?  That is a joke and has been discussed in depth on this site,even by yourself and i even bet i could go back and find your words that say.to the effect of..Ny is hell bent on pushing business OUT of Ny!!

[sampotter]

Ny is hell bent on pushing business OUT of Ny!!

 

This makes sense...

[Four Season Whitetail's]

This makes sense...

Yup could do a whole new thread on that subject,but why waste the time. but i am still kinda waiting on your response to the state of Missouri having a live test for their incoming animals to repopulate the herd but need to shut the door on farm animals because there is no live test at this time?

 

Please do tell?????

[sampotter]

This is NY not MO.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

This is NY not MO.

Just what i thought...Clueless.. Dont worry because the lawsuit filed against Ny shutting down or borders and our free trade rights will be strengthened by the facts and lawsuits in other states. When Mo has to answer in the court of law on their actions it will blow back on our Ny lawsuit and Ny will lose the same battle.

 Hence i love when i hear many complain about their rights and the Safe Act and then support the moves the state pulled on Ny farmers.

 The gun rights taken away is the same as our free trade rights taken away.  Enjoy the ride!!!

Edited January 4, 2015 by Four Season Whitetails

[sampotter]

Just what i thought...Clueless.. Dont worry because the lawsuit filed against Ny shutting down or borders and our free trade rights will be strengthened by the facts and lawsuits in other states. When Mo has to answer in the court of law on their actions it will blow back on our Ny lawsuit and Ny will lose the same battle.

 Hence i love when i hear many complain about their rights and the Safe Act and then support the moves the state pulled on Ny farmers.

 The gun rights taken away is the same as our free trade rights taken away.  Enjoy the ride!!!

 

Are you talking about the rectal biopsy test (live animal)?

[wdswtr]

Never mind not worth even one more second of my time on this thread.

Edited January 4, 2015 by wdswtr

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Are you talking about the rectal biopsy test (live animal)?

Thats one of the tests that can be used. Its been about 68% effective but states say thats not good enough numbers but they test for Tb every 3 years with a test that throws out close to those numbers.  Strange to say the least. Seeing that Tb can be introduced into other animals and CWD never has.

[Doc]

Good save Doc. If you say no words now you will eat no words later!  It pretty simple to see how just the one state above is playing their agenda. We all will be reading those words again except it will be in transcript.

 

You say you believe the state has more motive for protecting business in Ny?  That is a joke and has been discussed in depth on this site,even by yourself and i even bet i could go back and find your words that say.to the effect of..Ny is hell bent on pushing business OUT of Ny!!

Ha-ha .... you are welcome to try. Sure the state over taxes, and over regulates, but they do need tax money .....even yours. There are times when you truly sound a bit paranoid. That's not a malicious slam, but simply an observation. I kind of doubt the world really is out to get you......lol..... but maybe in your case and your deer farm they are for some reason making an exception. But I doubt it.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Ha-ha .... you are welcome to try. Sure the state over taxes, and over regulates, but they do need tax money .....even yours. There are times when you truly sound a bit paranoid. That's not a malicious slam, but simply an observation. I kind of doubt the world really is out to get you......lol..... but maybe in your case and your deer farm they are for some reason making an exception. But I doubt it.

So you can say the above post does not show what double standards that state is using? Their animals have a test but farm animals not?  When there are up to 6-8 known vectors of CWD yet they only force one vector and hurt peoples lives and step on the rights?

 

Is this not the same crying we hear about the Safe Act?  Some say disease is the reason..which has proven not to kill every animal,so far. Well they use guns kill people.which is a 100% fact yet many cry foul.  Your guns, My deer, Same rights just one does not affect as many as the other.

There is no paranoia. Its pure facts and truths of over regulations,Double standards and agendas. Pretty simple to see!

[Doc]

Tell you what ..... I have yet to find any constitutional guarantees that place deer farming anywhere near the importance and status of the 2nd Amendment. We have real issues to be concerned about. I can't be concerned about every guy that feels picked on. There simply are not enough hours in a day to worry about your pet peeves for more than maybe 4 and a half minutes or so. Sorry, it just doesn't sit too high on my list of priorities. As a quick glance across the top of this issue, I would say that it is illogical that the government would arbitrarily single out your business for a crusade of harassment. And that quick glance along the top of the issue is much more attention than I ever would have believed I would spend on deer farms.