Pair of killers...

[Curmudgeon]

A closed season on coyotes is asinine. Typical NYS DEC

 

Any coyote season during a period when pelts are not prime is asinine.

 

The underlying assumption is that shooting coyote reduces the population. Please do your homework. We've covered this ground many times.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Curmudgeon

[Trial153]

Any coyote season during a period when pelts are not prime is asinine.

That is absurd. All one has to to do is weight the economic benefits of deer and turkey hunting vs the economics of trapping and or any fur trade in coyote pelts in NY. Even the most mathematically challenged would conclude that there is no upside to a closed coyote season.

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[Curmudgeon]

That is absurd. All one has to to do is weight the economic benefits of deer and turkey hunting vs the economics of trapping and or any fur trade in coyote pelts in NY. Even the most mathematically challenged would conclude that there is no upside to a closed coyote season.

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There is no benefit to turkey or deer populations from killing coyotes. I said do your homework. It isn't about coyotes vs. game. You failed.

 

Coyotes increase their reproduction when persecuted. The science has been done over and over. A stable population limits its size. A disturbed population reproduces rapidly.

[Trial153]

There is no benefit to turkey or deer populations from killing coyotes. I said do your homework. It isn't about coyotes vs. game. You failed.

 

Coyotes increase their reproduction when persecuted. The science has been done over and over. A stable population limits its size. A disturbed population reproduces rapidly

 

you really need to look past the first few google results, the ones flooded with animal rights propaganda...here are few of the moronic  links your been looking at. 

http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/coyotes/tips/against_killing_coyotes.html

http://www.predatordefense.org/coyotes.htm

http://www.coyotesmarts.org/management-tools/

 

 

 

But here are some foot noted  research papers that directly contradict your claims.... 

 

http://texnat.tamu.edu/files/2010/09/014.pdf

http://agrilife.org/texnatwildlife/coyotes/table-of-contents/effects-of-coyote-control-on-their-prey/

https://getd.libs.uga.edu/pdfs/vangilder_cory_l_200808_ms.pdf

http://www.jonesctr.org/research/research_publications/Pdf/Howze_2009_SEAFWA12.pdf

[CFHunter]

They are valuable fur bearers and the season closes when they. Are having pups. Same as squirrels and many other animals. The state looks as them as a resource. As for year round open season, I think in areas it's needed or should be extended to control numbers, the eastern coyote is different as it hunts in packs vs the westers lone hunter.. perhaps from part wolf gene idk.. but do they take game absolutely, same as fisher, Bobcat,and raptors.. most mammal carnivores now have seasons, but raptors do not, although their numbers have rebounded since ddt has been banned, hawks take more pouts and phesant around me than hunters do. But no one talks about them. I've seen many turkeys with just the heads eaten off by owls. Again they are protected,

I guess we have to share our game with everything, same as my hard earned dollars....

 

To extend on what you said, I have had more of my chickens and turkeys I raise on the farm taken from hawks and eagles than coyotes or fishers, and I have a large population of both in my area. The raptors are coming back in force and I feel play a major role in turkey numbers.

[Curmudgeon]

you really need to look past the first few google results, the ones flooded with animal rights propaganda...here are few of the moronic  links your been looking at. 

http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/coyotes/tips/against_killing_coyotes.html

http://www.predatordefense.org/coyotes.htm

http://www.coyotesmarts.org/management-tools/

 

 

 

But here are some foot noted  research papers that directly contradict your claims.... 

 

http://texnat.tamu.edu/files/2010/09/014.pdf

http://agrilife.org/texnatwildlife/coyotes/table-of-contents/effects-of-coyote-control-on-their-prey/

https://getd.libs.uga.edu/pdfs/vangilder_cory_l_200808_ms.pdf

http://www.jonesctr.org/research/research_publications/Pdf/Howze_2009_SEAFWA12.pdf

 

I haven't and didn't bother to read the animal rights stuff. Good luck painting me with that brush. Nothing else you provided is news. Your studies do nothing but confirm what everybody knows: Coyotes kill fawns. So what. Outside the Forest Preserves, this doesn't matter a bit.

 

It is possible to kill enough to increase fawn recruitment. However, you cannot do this in real life. Outside an enclosure, it is impossible. You cannot manage coyotes on a landscape scale. It has been tried for over a century out west. Ask 4 Seasons - the esteemed member of the He-Man Coyote Haters Club - about coyotes. He will tell you of being overrun year after year in spite of relentless killing of coyotes.

 

Your message suggests there is a lack of deer. 55% percent of the deer killed in NYS last fall were not adult males. Why is this? It is by design. The goal is to reduce deer numbers in New York. If you want more deer, convince the DEC and the Deer Management Task Forces across the state. That would have much more impact than killing coyotes.

 

Coyotes are here to stay. They evolved to respond as a population and reproduce quickly when predated by wolves. Nothing you or anyone else does will impact their population across the landscape. For every one you kill there is a young one looking to move in and establish a territory. If you left the dominant adults in place, you would be better off, or at least no worse off.

 

Many things are possible but the cost benefit equation on this one is all screwed up. It would require year-round hunting on a landscape scale, and the removal of something like 40% of the coyotes annually (I don't remember the exact number) to reduce their population. You can find the study if you have time to spend searching.

 

Killing coyotes for anything other than sport or fur is nothing more than an emotional release. Kill the competition - whether it makes any difference or not. You can get the same release working on a heavy bag.

 

 

 

 

 

[Curmudgeon]

To extend on what you said, I have had more of my chickens and turkeys I raise on the farm taken from hawks and eagles than coyotes or fishers, and I have a large population of both in my area. The raptors are coming back in force and I feel play a major role in turkey numbers.

 

You've seen an eagle kill a chicken? Where?

 

[CFHunter]

You've seen an eagle kill a chicken? Where?

 

 

Not a chicken. We had a bald eagle kill one of our turkeys last year. My wife walked up on it feasting on it. At first, she was in awe and thinking how beautiful it was to see the thing so close, then she realized it was eating one of our turkeys. She didn't think it was so cute after that. I live in Chenango Forks. We have a few nesting pairs along the river. They land in our pastures quite a bit.

[CFHunter]

You've seen an eagle kill a chicken? Where?

 

 

That night, I started putting the turkey's in an enclosure when we were not home. It was just a crate with chicken wire around it. Then next day, I came home from work, and caught Baldy back pulling the wing off one of the remaining turkeys thru the fencing. I could not believe an eagle would be that bold.

[Curmudgeon]

That night, I started putting the turkey's in an enclosure when we were not home. It was just a crate with chicken wire around it. Then next day, I came home from work, and caught Baldy back pulling the wing off one of the remaining turkeys thru the fencing. I could not believe an eagle would be that bold.

 

Bald Eagles prefer eating carrion to hunting. I'm not saying it didn't kill a turkey but it would certainly love to feed on one something else had killed. That's why I asked if you saw it kill your bird. I've never heard a report of a Bald Eagle attacking Wild Turkeys. Goldens do but they are so rare as to have any impact become meaningless.

 

I'm not clear on the turkey inside the fence. Was it dead?

 

[CFHunter]

Bald Eagles prefer eating carrion to hunting. I'm not saying it didn't kill a turkey but it would certainly love to feed on one something else had killed. That's why I asked if you saw it kill your bird. I've never heard a report of a Bald Eagle attacking Wild Turkeys. Goldens do but they are so rare as to have any impact become meaningless.

 

I'm not clear on the turkey inside the fence. Was it dead?

 

 

I was out to feed the turkeys two hours before and they were all healthy. When I took the carcass to get rid of it, it was still warm. I cannot say for sure the eagle killed it, but when I saw it the next day ripping the wing off one of my other turkeys through the fencing around the coop they were in, I felt confident it was what killed it. That turkey ended up dying two weeks later, probably due to infection. Once I put a roof over their larger area, they were not bothered again. I think Eagles are smart enough to know when they have a easy opportunity for a meal. I just think it saw these tasty morsels just sitting there and not able to get away.

 

On a side note, while living in Alaska, I saw Bald Eagles take out small mammals a few times. Was pretty cool to see. Of course, up there, they are just like seagulls, all over the place.

[dbHunterNY]

you're talking a Bald Eagle not a turkey vulture.  Obviously if there's a carcass around they'll claim it and accept for anything coyote or bigger not much will mess with it.  a bald eagle hunts, fishes, and scavenges for food.  a domestic turkey that can't fly probably looks like a butterball to them. a wild turkey poult I could see turning into a meal same as a newborn fawn but I'm sure it's not a normal occurrence throughout the country side.

when it comes to coyotes I tend to see more and more often during turkey season and when fawns are dropping.  I've had multiple coyotes stalk me while turkey calling and then have a revelation.  also I've seen turkeys get the sneak attack from yotes.  Most of the time the yote gets close but not close enough.  A couple occasions the turkey wasn't quick enough.  one was in a wide open hay field.  with plenty of food around hammering coyote population is just making them healthier, happier, and more productive.  a healthy population of deer can support both a healthy coyote population and your freezer.  you still have to keep chipping away at the predator population when you can though.  otherwise you'll be dumb, ignorant, and without coyotes only when food (turkey and deer) aren't as prevalent.  any predator only hunts where there's food, us included.... most of the time.