8 Levels of Control

[Mr VJP]

Another member asked me to copy and paste this to the forums for him.  Always glad to help out.

 

8 Levels of Control (this is scary) AND.....TAKE HEED!!!                  

Rules for Radicals, Reveille for Radicals

 

S aul Alinsky died about 43 years ago, but his writings influenced those in political control of our nation today.......   Recall that Hillary did her college thesis on his writings and Obama writes about him in his books.

Died: June 12, 1972, Carmel-by-the-Sea, Ca

Education: University of Chicago

Spouse: Irene Alinsky

Books: Rules for Radicals, Reveille for Radicals

Anyone out there think that this stuff isn't happening today in the U.S.?

All eight rules are currently in play

.  

How to create a social state by Saul Alinsky:

There are eight levels of control that must be obtained before you are able to create a social state. The first is the most important.

1) Healthcare– Control healthcare and you control the people

2) Poverty – Increase the Poverty level as high as possible, poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.

3) Debt – Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.

4) Gun Control– Remove the ability to defend themselves from the Government. That way you are able to create a police state.

5) Welfare – Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Housing, and Income)

6) Education – Take control of what people read and listen to – take control of what children learn in school.

7) Religion – Remove the belief in the God from the Government and schools

 Class Warfare – Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more discontent and it will be easier to take (Tax) the wealthy with the support of the poor.

Does any of this sound like what is happening to the United States ?

Alinsky merely simplified Vladimir Lenin's original scheme for world conquest by communism, under Russian rule.

Stalin described his converts as "Useful Idiots." 

The Useful Idiots have destroyed every nation in which they have seized power and control.

 

It is presently happening at an alarming rate in the U.S.

  If   people   can read this and still say everything is just fine…   they are “useful idiots.

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere."

 

 

[scolopaxmatt]

I wasn't his editor or anything, but I don't think that's what that book is about.  At all. 

[Carbonelement]

silly right wing nut  ...all the government controlling everything is the best thing for this country just ask the local idiots.  

I mean come on look at history every great empire that worked toward this fell, but the Libs here can make it utopia! 

[BellR]

Silly people who think that their opinion typed on a hunting forum will sway complete strangers opinions of the world over the internet, no matter which way you lean. 

[fasteddie]

Silly people who think that their opinion typed on a hunting forum will sway complete strangers opinions of the world over the internet, no matter which way you lean. 

 

That's where Facebook serves a purpose ! 

[greg54]

Liberal "Useful Idiots".....LOL

[Black Bellamy]

I wasn't his editor or anything, but I don't think that's what that book is about.  At all. 

 

No of course not.  The list above posted by our useful idiot VJP comes from another (fake) document called Communist Rules For Revolution which has been circulating since the 1940s.  Someone modified it slightly and slapped Alinsky's name on it and there you go.

 

If you know anything at all about Saul Alinsky is that he would never ever advocate "increasing the poverty level as high as possible" - that's the very antithesis of what he worked to achieve.  The claim that he advocated "controlling health care" is also not plausible, he died long before health care costs were an issue - seems very anachronistic for him to advocate that.

 

Here are the actual thirteen "power tactics" that come from Saul Alinsky's 1971 Rules For Radicals:

 

Always remember the first rule of power tactics: Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have. 

The second rule is: Never go outside the experience of your people. When an action is outside the experience of the people, the result is confusion, fear, and retreat. 

The third rule is: Wherever possible go outside the experience of the enemy. Here you want to cause confusion, fear, and retreat. 

The fourth rule is: Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity. 

The fourth rule carries within it the fifth rule: Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage. 

The sixth rule is: A good tactic is one that your people enjoy. If your people are not having a ball doing it, there is something very wrong with the tactic. 

The seventh rule: A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. Man can sustain militant interest in any issue for only a limited time, after which it becomes a ritualistic commitment, like going to church on Sunday mornings. 

The eighth rule: Keep the pressure on, with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose. 

The ninth rule: The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself. 

The tenth rule: The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign. 

The eleventh rule is: If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside; this is based on the principle that every positive has its negative. 

The twelfth rule: The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative. You cannot risk being trapped by the enemy in his sudden agreement with your demand and saying "You're right — we don't know what to do about this issue. Now you tell us." 

The thirteenth rule: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.

 

 

I'm going to use Saul's fifth rule here:  Hey VJP, do you live in the modern age?  Have you ever heard of the internet?  I hear it has a lot of information on it.   Like if some propagandist posts a bunch of lies in the interest of vilifying others, interested people can go verify that information.   Or debunk it.   Do yourself a favor and do a quick search for the next nonsense you post - if you can find out that it's all a big lie on the first page of search results, chances are others will too ;p

Edited June 24, 2015 by Black Bellamy

[Mr VJP]

Like I said Blackie, I was asked to do a favor for someone and I obliged.  I couldn't care less about it's veracity, nor your post.

 

With all due respect, of course.

 

I would point out that the list actually seems to indicate exactly what Obama has been doing since he's been President.

 

Edited June 24, 2015 by Mr VJP

[Mr VJP]

If you know anything at all about Saul Alinsky is that he would never ever advocate "increasing the poverty level as high as possible" - that's the very antithesis of what he worked to achieve.  The claim that he advocated "controlling health care" is also not plausible, he died long before health care costs were an issue - seems very anachronistic for him to advocate that.  

He Died in 1971.  I think healthcare was already an issue then and his point was having the government control it.

 

From what I can find on the internet Blackie, it's far from being a lie.

 

Rules for Radicals: A Pragmatic Primer for Realistic Radicals is the late work of community organizer Saul D. Alinsky, and his last book, published in 1971 shortly before his death. His goal for the Rules for Radicals was to create a guide for future community organizers to use in uniting low-income communities, or "Have-Nots", in order to empower them to gain social, political, and economic equality by challenging the current agencies that promoted their inequality.^[1] Within it, Alinsky compiled the lessons he had learned throughout his personal experiences of community organizing spanning from 1939-1971 and targeted these lessons at the current, new generation of radicals.^[2]

Divided into ten chapters, each chapter of Rules for Radicals provides a lesson on how a community organizer can accomplish the goal of successfully uniting people into an active organization with the power to effect change on a variety of issues. Though targeted at community organization, these chapters also touch on a myriad of other issues that range from ethics, education, communication, and symbol construction to nonviolence and political philosophy.^[3]

Though published for the new generation of counterculture-era organizers in 1971, Alinsky's principles have been successfully applied over the last four decades by numerous government, labor, community, and congregation-based organizations, and the main themes of his organizational methods that were elucidated upon in Rules for Radicals have been recurring elements in political campaigns in recent years.

 

Rules for Radicals

In 1971, Saul Alinsky wrote an entertaining classic on grassroots organizing titled Rules for Radicals. Those who prefer cooperative tactics describe the book as out-of-date. Nevertheless, it provides some of the best advice on confrontational tactics. Alinsky begins this way: What follows is for those who want to change the world from what it is to what they believe it should be. The Prince was written by Machiavelli for the Haves on how to hold power. Rules for Radicals is written for the Have-Nots on how to take it away.

His “rules” derive from many successful campaigns where he helped poor people fighting power and privilege

For Alinsky, organizing is the process of highlighting what is wrong and convincing people they can actually do something about it. The two are linked. If people feel they don’t have the power to change a bad situation, they stop thinking about it.

According to Alinsky, the organizer — especially a paid organizer from outside — must first overcome suspicion and establish credibility. Next the organizer must begin the task of agitating: rubbing resentments, fanning hostilities, and searching out controversy. This is necessary to get people to participate. An organizer has to attack apathy and disturb the prevailing patterns of complacent community life where people have simply come to accept a bad situation. Alinsky would say, “The first step in community organization is community disorganization.”

Through a process combining hope and resentment, the organizer tries to create a “mass army” that brings in as many recruits as possible from local organizations, churches, services groups, labor unions, corner gangs, and individuals. 

Alinsky provides a collection of rules to guide the process. But he emphasizes these rules must be translated into real-life tactics that are fluid and responsive to the situation at hand.

Rule 1: Power is not only what you have, but what an opponent thinks you have. If your organization is small, hide your numbers in the dark and raise a din that will make everyone think you have many more people than you do.

Rule 2: Never go outside the experience of your people. 

The result is confusion, fear, and retreat. 

Rule 3: Whenever possible, go outside the experience of an opponent. Here you want to cause confusion, fear, and retreat. 

Rule 4: Make opponents live up to their own book of rules. “You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.”

Rule 5: Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. It’s hard to counterattack ridicule, and it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage.

Rule 6: A good tactic is one your people enjoy. “If your people aren’t having a ball doing it, there is something very wrong with the tactic.”

Rule 7: A tactic that drags on for too long becomes a drag. Commitment may become ritualistic as people turn to other issues.

Rule 8: Keep the pressure on. Use different tactics and actions and use all events of the period for your purpose. “The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this that will cause the opposition to react to your advantage.”

Rule 9: The threat is more terrifying than the thing itself. When Alinsky leaked word that large numbers of poor people were going to tie up the washrooms of O’Hare Airport, Chicago city authorities quickly agreed to act on a longstanding commitment to a ghetto organization. They imagined the mayhem as thousands of passengers poured off airplanes to discover every washroom occupied. Then they imagined the international embarrassment and the damage to the city’s reputation.

Rule 10: The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative. Avoid being trapped by an opponent or an interviewer who says, “Okay, what would you do?”

Rule 11: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, polarize it. Don’t try to attack abstract corporations or bureaucracies. Identify a responsible individual. Ignore attempts to shift or spread the blame.

According to Alinsky, the main job of the organizer is to bait an opponent into reacting. “The enemy properly goaded and guided in his reaction will be your major strength.” 

 

 

 

The only conclusion one can come to about adopting these tactics, is overthrow of the current system. These "rules" are currently being used in an attempt to destroy the US Constitution and the Rule of Law.  To me, anyone wishing to overthrow the current Constitutional system of government we are supposed to be living under, is a traitor.

[greg54]

Silly people who think that their opinion typed on a hunting forum will sway complete strangers opinions of the world over the internet, no matter which way you lean. 

The truth hurts , doesn't it?

[growalot]

Here's a tactic:

Spend less time considering what others are thinking and purposing so you can spend more time think for your self and working out what you can from that....

[Black Bellamy]

Like I said Blackie, I was asked to do a favor for someone and I obliged.  I couldn't care less about it's veracity, nor your post.

 

 

If you couldn't care less about my reply, you would not have spent the time to type that.

 

Ergo...you lie, just like your "somebody".

 

However, I do care.  I care about idiots spreading hate and propaganda and other lies.   The only way to fight your speech is with more speech.  So keep posting, and I'll keep calling you out (you don't have to read my posts, I don't mind).

[Mr VJP]

Caring what you post and setting the record straight are different things.

 

A man prone to calling other's liar's is usually the one who practices it most.

 

Call me out whenever you like.  that's what debate is about.  Although intelligent debaters do not stoop to calling their opponents names, unless they are of very low I.Q. and vocabulary.

 

If you care about propaganda and other lies, you really should be quite incensed with Progressives, Liberals, Leftists and Obama.  I don't see any posts from you calling any of them out though.  Perhaps you only care about lies that do not support your political bent.

 

[The_Field_Ager]

  I don't see any posts from you calling any of them out though.  Perhaps you only care about lies that do not support your political bent.

 

Nailed it.

[growalot]

ps..my above post wasn't directed at anyone...just a general statement.

[The_Field_Ager]

Here's a tactic:

Spend less time considering what others are thinking and purposing so you can spend more time think for your self and working out what you can from that....

 

 

I don 't see why we can't do both. And knowing your enemy's motivations have to be a part of any reactive plan. Let me quote Sun Tzu, from his 'art of war'.

 

 

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” 

 

 

And if you think we are not at war in the modern world, I have some sea front property in Iowa I can sell you.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Papist

[growalot]

And if you think we are not at war in the modern world, I have some sea front property in Iowa I can sell you.

 

 

 

Could you please let me know where I ever made any inference to what you stated above..

 

Now as to your quoting "The Art of War" I have to wonder if he spent much time finding the quotes of others or just reasoned out his own thoughts ,so others could find his words to quote.

[The_Field_Ager]

Could you please let me know where I ever made any inference to what you stated above..

 

 

 

 

To be honest, your statement, made in a vacuum, ie not directed at anyone,  was somewhat confusing. It seemed to suggest that we not concern ourselves with the plans others make for us in terms of their desire to order society to their own ends. If I have it wrong, I apologize. But don't be afraid to direct your comments specifically in a given direction. It might save some confusion as to the purpose and intent.

[growalot]

My when have you seen me be afraid to direct my views toward any specific target.....it was just a generalized opinion....and or view the towards the "rules"