Scope options

[Five Seasons]

fwiw,

 

there's no excuse not to be as accurate as possible, but we sometimes forget we're not trying to shoot the fuzz off the bucks nuts. dead on at 100 and an inch high at 50 shouldn't make any difference with a good shot and the crosshairs where you want them. Just look at your thumbnail and ask yourself how big of a deal you think it is.

 

A nice scope is about fov, clarity and light and really nothing much more. My vx3 comes with the option to add the CDS. Custom fitted to the altitude and load I shoot. I can adjust my scope to compensate for distances out to 600 yards. Cool feature. Not really needed in the woods I hunt.

[chas0218]

Here is the best I can do unless someone can tell me how to past a sceenshot direct.

 

 

The vertical axis is distroted to fit 420 yda into the graph.

 

Bullet starts out 1.6" below the LOS (center-line of the sight axis)

 

At 50yds it is 1/10" high

At 100yds is is 2 1/2" high

At 150yds it is 3" high

At 261yds it is ZERO

At 306yds it is 3" low

At 420yds it is 16" low

 

On you r 420 yard shot you would have held about 1/3 the distance from brisket to whithers abive the back of the deer for a center of vitals hit.

Or my 2nd circle in my BDC.

[wildcat junkie]

That was my thought. I am already 1 1/2" high with sighting in at 100 yards.

 

1 /2 " high at 50yds for a zero @ 100yds would be about right for a 22Lr.

 

If your 270 is indeed 1 1/2" high at 50 yds it would be 4" high at 100yds, over 5 1/4" high at 180yds, zeroed at 325.

 

I think you are confusing the distance above the muzzle in a horizontal plane with the LOS which is where you see your crosshairs on the target.

 

Sighted in 2 1/2" high @ 100yds would indeed have the bullet 1.7" above the muzzle in a horizontal plane at 50yds, but the bullet would strike .1" above the LOS.

 

All of this depends on how high your rings are, what you ACTUAL Mv is & what the ballistic coefficient is of your bullet. Y your BDC reticle has no way to take all of those variable into consideration.

 

[wildcat junkie]

Here is the best I can do unless someone can tell me how to past a sceenshot direct.

 

 

The vertical axis is distroted to fit 420 yda into the graph.

 

Bullet starts out 1.6" below the LOS (center-line of the sight axis)

 

At 50yds it is 1/10" high

At 100yds is is 2 1/2" high

At 150yds it is 3" high

At 261yds it is ZERO

At 306yds it is 3" low

At 420yds it is 16" low

 

On you r 420 yard shot you would have held about 1/3 the distance from brisket to whithers abive the back of the deer for a center of vitals hit.

 

 

Or my 2nd circle in my BDC.

 

Maybe so, but you are the guy that says that if you sight your rifle in 2 1/2" high at 100yds you will be 4 1/2" high at 50 yds which is a physical impossibility.

 

[wildcat junkie]

fwiw,

 

there's no excuse not to be as accurate as possible, but we sometimes forget we're not trying to shoot the fuzz off the bucks nuts. dead on at 100 and an inch high at 50 shouldn't make any difference with a good shot and the crosshairs where you want them. Just look at your thumbnail and ask yourself how big of a deal you think it is.

 

A nice scope is about fov, clarity and light and really nothing much more. My vx3 comes with the option to add the CDS. Custom fitted to the altitude and load I shoot. I can adjust my scope to compensate for distances out to 600 yards. Cool feature. Not really needed in the woods I hunt.

 

If you are referring to my "thumbnail" I was merely trying to point out the impossibilty of a 270 that is sighted in @ 2 1/2" high @ 100yd being 4 1/2" high @ 50yds.

 

Sighting in for maximum 3" PBR IS simplifying things. It allow one to hold in the center of the vitals to over 300yds W/something like a .270. There is no need to worry about bullet drop within those ranges & one could still hold on the hair to 400yds sighted in thus.

 

[Five Seasons]

no wildcat, just a general comment when we start splitting hairs.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I don't think Wildcat was splitting hairs. His approach is the most realistic and simplistic for out North East whitetail woods. It doesn't get much easier than point and shoot. 

[wildcat junkie]

no wildcat, just a general comment when we start splitting hairs.

 

Nobody's splitting hairs, just trying clear up some serious misconceptions about bullet trajectory. Since I wasn't getting through explaining the concept, I tried posting a picture.

 

[wildcat junkie]

I don't think Wildcat was splitting hairs. His approach is the most realistic and simplistic for out North East whitetail woods. It doesn't get much easier than point and shoot. 

^^^^Exactly!^^^^

Over the past 16 years I have killed numerous whitetails from 75 to 250 yards, (most of them between 200 & 240yds) all with center of vitals holds. Only one required a 2nd shot when it took step & turned as I squeezed off the 1st shot.

Edited February 5, 2016 by wildcat junkie

[Culvercreek hunt club]

^^^^Exactly!^^^^

Over the past 16 years I have killed numerous whitetails from 75 to 250 yards, (most of them between 200 & 240yds) all with center of vitals holds. Only one required a 2nd shot when it took step & turned as I squeezed off the 1st shot.

I typically set my 06 at 2" high at 100 and never had to hold over

[mac]

I typically set my 06 at 2" high at 100 and never had to hold over

 

an 06 2" high at 100 would be about bullseye/zero at 200 yards? and vice versa., zeroed at 200 yrds would have me about 2" high at 100? with lets say 150gr .just curious

[Five Seasons]

I don't think Wildcat was splitting hairs. His approach is the most realistic and simplistic for out North East whitetail woods. It doesn't get much easier than point and shoot. 

 

still meant i wasn't directing the comment at anyone. just a general comment about the game of inches. Even at 9x on a whitetail at 200 yards you're probably not adjusting 2 inches. The whitetail moves, the hunter is cold and adrenaline pumping, sometimes freehand.

 

Chances are your crosshair is either on or right behind the shoulder. squeeze, bang, flop. In archery adjusting for distance is much more drastic. I don't know of many gun hunters if any that are consciously aiming high or low in the 50 to 200 range.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Belo

[Culvercreek hunt club]

an 06 2" high at 100 would be about bullseye/zero at 200 yards? and vice versa., zeroed at 200 yrds would have me about 2" high at 100? with lets say 150gr .just curious

it really isn't just that simple as the grain weight. Need MV and BC but with my handloads and the Federal Premiums I use to use, that is pretty accurate.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Culvercreek hunt club

[wildcat junkie]

it really isn't just that simple as the grain weight. Need MV and BC but with my handloads and the Federal Premiums I use to use, that is pretty accurate.

 

You also must factor in how high the sights are above the bore axis.

 

[mac]

it really isn't just that simple as the grain weight. Need MV and BC but with my handloads and the Federal Premiums I use to use, that is pretty accurate.

ok thanks for confirming. then if I'm zeroed in at 200 yds with 150gr , shooting 220gr will give me same results? 

[wildcat junkie]

it really isn't just that simple as the grain weight. Need MV and BC but with my handloads and the Federal Premiums I use to use, that is pretty accurate.

 

 

You also must factor in how high the sights are above the bore axis.

 

 All of the factors listed above makes any per-designated "Ballistic Drop Compensator" reticles little more than a feel good option if the user expects any precise POA compensation.

 

And, using factory Mv data won't work either as I have seen Mv vary as much as 200 fps from published stats. That goes for reloading data too.

 

A person using a duplex reticle and a trajectory table for their particular combination coupled W/a range finder will be far more accurate. But now I am splitting hairs.

 

.A mil-dot reticle merely gives one a reference for hold over/windage and is more precise than a duplex, but if you know the subtend distance of the gap between the heavy portions of the duplex one can also use that for the same purposes.

 

The "gap" of most duplex reticles at 9x will cover 5-7" @ 100yds depending on brand. (that same gap @ 3x would be 15-21" @ 100yds) .This can be used to estimate yardages. A  mature WT buck will average about 16-18" from brisket to whithers. If the buck fills the entire gap of the duplex @ 9x the deer is approximatly 300yds + away & some hold over might be needed unless your maximum PBR is that distance.. If the gap only covers part of the distance, just hold for center of the vitals & shoot.

 

As I stated earlier the same gap can be used to judge the relative age/size of the deer if it is antlerless & alone. It takes some practice, but if one is familiar W/the optics, it becomes a second nature.

 

Way back when I started deer hunting the rule was 3" high @ 100yds, but 100yds is not the high point in the trajectory of most medium bore medium power CF rifle cartridges. In most cases that 'high point" is around 150yds. Sighting in 3" high @ 100yds would make the bullet somewhere around 4" high @ 150. That might be a good trajectory for Elk or Moose, but it is a little too much leeway for my liking on smaller animals like deer.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

ok thanks for confirming. then if I'm zeroed in at 200 yds with 150gr , shooting 220gr will give me same results? 

Isn't that easy. I would research what you are actually using. As WCJ said. printed info on the manufactured is seldom correct. but even at that the much heavier bullet won't react the "Same". One I liiked at was 0 at 200, +3.1" at 100 and -13.4 at 300 

Edited February 5, 2016 by Culvercreek hunt club

[wildcat junkie]

ok thanks for confirming. then if I'm zeroed in at 200 yds with 150gr , shooting 220gr will give me same results? 

 

Generally speaking, the 220 will be much slower Mv & will shoot lower than the 150 if the zero settings aren't changed.  Even 2 bullets of the same caliber & weight that have different profiles will shoot differently. A 220gr polymer tipped boat tail bullet will shoot "flatter" than a similar caliber 220gr round nose even if they have the same Mv. Drag (BC factor) will make the RN bullet slow down quicker. The lower the BC, the more drag.

 

If you are referring to the 220 zeroed @ 200yds compared to a 150gr zeroed @ 200yds, the 220 will have a higher POI @ 100yds than the 150 does. t will require more "lob" than the lighter, faster bullet.

 

Edited February 5, 2016 by wildcat junkie

[shawnhu]

still meant i wasn't directing the comment at anyone. just a general comment about the game of inches. Even at 9x on a whitetail at 200 yards you're probably not adjusting 2 inches. The whitetail moves, the hunter is cold and adrenaline pumping, sometimes freehand.

Chances are your crosshair is either on or right behind the shoulder. squeeze, bang, flop. In archery adjusting for distance is much more drastic. I don't know of many gun hunters if any that are consciously aiming high or low in the 50 to 200 range.

I do, all the time. When your kill zone is only an inch or so, and your projectile is traveling under 900 fps, you need to hold-over or under to make the kill-shot or you'll miss or wound.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

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[wildcat junkie]

I do, all the time. When your kill zone is only an inch or so, and your projectile is traveling under 900 fps, you need to hold-over or under to make the kill-shot or you'll miss or wound.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

 

I think the general parameters of the topic being discussed here are medium/big game that will have a vital area of 9" to 12" out to distance of 300yds or a bit more..

 

[shawnhu]

I think the general parameters of the topic being discussed here are medium/big game that will have a vital area of 9" to 12" out to distance of 300yds or a bit more..

All depends what you consider vitals and where you are aiming to hit. The op never specified, neither did Belo.

But if you are implying that all deer hunters don't hold high or low, then I'd also disagree as I hold higher or lower. I imagine a bullseye target on everything I shoot at, and strive to hit the red, every time.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[wildcat junkie]

All depends what you consider vitals and where you are aiming to hit. The op never specified, neither did Belo.

But if you are implying that all deer hunters don't hold high or low, then I'd also disagree as I hold higher or lower. I imagine a bullseye target on everything I shoot at, and strive to hit the red, every time.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

 

Yes deer hunters that don't know how to sight in their weapons for maximum PBR on a 9" vital area hold high or low. I used to do that too.

 

[shawnhu]

Yes deer hunters that don't know how to sight in their weapons for maximum PBR on a 9" vital area hold high or low. I used to do that too.

PBR is on a 9" target out to 300 yards isn't necessary IMO. I'd rather aim small, and miss small.

On a rifle or shooter that shoots 3MOA, you're looking at a 9" spread at 300 yards. There isn't any PBR that could possibly help in these scenarios, unless you're shooting a laser beam.

PBR only works for those who strive for accuracy, and needs to react at a closer range where they don't have the luxury of adjusting turrets or referencing a hold-over chart. When you're after animals greater than 200 yards, and sometimes 100 yards, PBR isn't really necessary.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

[wildcat junkie]

On a rifle or shooter that shoots 3MOA, you're looking at a 9" spread at 300 yards. There isn't any PBR that could possibly help in these scenarios, unless you're shooting a laser beam.

PBR only works for those who strive for accuracy, and needs to react at a closer range where they don't have the luxury of adjusting turrets or referencing a hold-over chart. When you're after animals greater than 200 yards, and sometimes 100 yards, PBR isn't really necessary.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

 

As usual you are confused. A 3" maximum PBR has nothing to do with a "3" MOA spread" The 8X57 Mauser shots a 3" maximum PBR of 270 yds @ a .5 MOA spread. With my .280 that was extended to 310yds.

 

I shot my 1st CF rifle in 1958. How old were you then? I started studying trajectory a few years later after reading some of Jack O'connor's works. Do you know who Jack O'connor is? (without google)

 

"Holdover" requires range estimation and the time involved in such. 3" maximum PBR does not require range estimation unless the target is beyond the PBR. On a deer I can tell if that is the case when the animal fits within the vertical gap of my duplex reticle. Then I can hold over & unless the animal is over 350 yds I can still hold on hair, even farther with the .280. Quite trying to paint maximum PBR as a disadvantage it isn't.

 

And what the hell does aim small miss small have to do with this. I aim for the center of the vitals.

 

How many deer have you shot @ over 200yds in the last 15 years? I would guess that I have shot about 15 but it could be a few more, I have lost track at this point.

 

Edited February 6, 2016 by wildcat junkie

[BizCT]

Just buy a weatherby, site in couples inches high at 100 and your good to go 0-400yds without much thkught

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