At the range...

[22Plinker]

I noticed my scope mounts were slowly creeping back so when I cleaned my 795 the other day I lock-tited the bolt threads.  I figured while I was taking it to the range to get a -fresh zero I would do my son's as well as he has missed a dozen shots in a row. 

 

WOW!  I don't know if he dropped his rifle or what but it went from being dead-nuts accurate at 50 yards to nearly 18 inches off.  So after remounting his scope and sighting it in I finally got these results at 50 yards.  Left to right... 1 shot, 1 shot, 4 shot group.

 

 

So after getting the kids rifle all set, I figured I would do mine.  Surprising how much just moving the rings back 1/5 of an inch will make a difference.  At the end of the day I ended up with these results.  Left to Right 1 shot, 2, 3, 4, 10 shot groups.

 

 

It looks like the difference between an 18 inch barrel (mine) and a 22 inch barrel (the kids) is VERY significant!  The kid has challenged me to hit a dime at 100 yards so we are going back to the range in the morning... and then out to put a few more squirrels and rabbits in the freezer.

 

Anyone interested in hitting up Three Rivers tomorrow and / or Sunday with me?

[shawnhu]

I noticed my scope mounts were slowly creeping back so when I cleaned my 795 the other day I lock-tited the bolt threads. I figured while I was taking it to the range to get a -fresh zero I would do my son's as well as he has missed a dozen shots in a row.

WOW! I don't know if he dropped his rifle or what but it went from being dead-nuts accurate at 50 yards to nearly 18 inches off. So after remounting his scope and sighting it in I finally got these results at 50 yards. Left to right... 1 shot, 1 shot, 4 shot group.

IMG_1999.JPG

So after getting the kids rifle all set, I figured I would do mine. Surprising how much just moving the rings back 1/5 of an inch will make a difference. At the end of the day I ended up with these results. Left to Right 1 shot, 2, 3, 4, 10 shot groups.

IMG_2001.JPG

It looks like the difference between an 18 inch barrel (mine) and a 22 inch barrel (the kids) is VERY significant! The kid has challenged me to hit a dime at 100 yards so we are going back to the range in the morning... and then out to put a few more squirrels and rabbits in the freezer.

Anyone interested in hitting up Three Rivers tomorrow and / or Sunday with me?

I don't think your gun likes the ammo it's shooting. Has very little to do with barrel length. The shorter, the better for consistency, usually.

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[turkeyfeathers]

I don't think your gun likes the ammo it's shooting. Has very little to do with barrel length. The shorter, the better for consistency, usually.

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isn't it the other way around ?! Longer barrel more consistently?

[shawnhu]

isn't it the other way around ?! Longer barrel more consistently?

No. Longer barrels are more whippy, and are not as stable as shorter barrels. Thicker barrels are also less prone to wide swings in barrel harmonics vs thinner.

Short thin barrels are generally most accurate, but the loss in velocity is generally not favorable to the weight savings.

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[turkeyfeathers]

Guess I'm lost then. What's the advantage of a heavy bull barrel? Toted as very accurate . Or handgun vs long gun ? Not being smart. Trying to learn

[22Plinker]

My sons gun I used Federal Champion HP for the 4 shot group and CCI mini mag for the single shots.

 

My gun I used CCI mini mag for all the shots.  The Federal Champion in my gun opens the groupings by 50%.

 

I'll have to buy a few boxes of different brands to do a accuracy test.

[shawnhu]

Guess I'm lost then. What's the advantage of a heavy bull barrel? Toted as very accurate . Or handgun vs long gun ? Not being smart. Trying to learn

Bull barrels are thicker, which is what I said earlier. Thicker is generally stiffer and will resist the barrel harmonics better than a thin barrel. Longer barrels are desired for a complete burn of the powder, which will give maximum efficiency in terms of muzzle velocity. This length is generally 24", depending on the cartridge. This is mainly internal ballistics.

Hand-guns vs rifles are a totally different animal in terms of long range accuracy, not because of the barrel length and harmonics, but because of stability, design of the bullets and lack of range. This is mainly external ballistics.

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[shawnhu]

My sons gun I used Federal Champion HP for the 4 shot group and CCI mini mag for the single shots.

My gun I used CCI mini mag for all the shots. The Federal Champion in my gun opens the groupings by 50%.

I'll have to buy a few boxes of different brands to do a accuracy test.

Have you tried cleaning the barrel on your gun to see if that might help? How's the action screws and scope mount screws looking on yours?

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[22Plinker]

Have you tried cleaning the barrel on your gun to see if that might help? How's the action screws and scope mount screws looking on yours?

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Cleaned the barrel with a bore snake and ran patches through until they came through clean.  Looking down the barrel with a light it looks clean with no deposits.

 

The action screws are tight and there doesn't appear to be any movement.  The scope rings to rail are snug with the screws on the left side.  I put blue thread lock on them this time to make sure they don't back out.  The clamps holding the scope to the rings are even on both sides and tightened to snug with a little extra.  made sure to not over-tighten them.

 

I used a silver sharpie to mark both the ring mount to the rail and the scope to the clamp.  After 150 rounds neither moved at all.  I think the reason it moved the first time was because the ring to rail bolt loosened a little.

[shawnhu]

Cleaned the barrel with a bore snake and ran patches through until they came through clean. Looking down the barrel with a light it looks clean with no deposits.

The action screws are tight and there doesn't appear to be any movement. The scope rings to rail are snug with the screws on the left side. I put blue thread lock on them this time to make sure they don't back out. The clamps holding the scope to the rings are even on both sides and tightened to snug with a little extra. made sure to not over-tighten them.

I used a silver sharpie to mark both the ring mount to the rail and the scope to the clamp. After 150 rounds neither moved at all. I think the reason it moved the first time was because the ring to rail bolt loosened a little.

What kind of solvent? Color on the patches?

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[Lawdwaz]

Copper fouling.

[22Plinker]

What kind of solvent? Color on the patches?

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Hoppe's # 9 kit.  The bottle says its good for lead and copper.  It took about 8 patches to get it so there was no visible residue.  Ran a patch through with barrel oil last and it came out clean.

 

Copper fouling.

 

I wondered that myself since I have run nothing but copper plated ammo since the first 500 rounds of lead ammo.  After i broke it down and cleaned it I looked through the barrel with a soft white light at the end.  It looks amazingly clear.  Thats not to say there isn't spots I can't see, but nothing like what I've seen on youtube videos.

[shawnhu]

Hoppe's # 9 kit. The bottle says its good for lead and copper. It took about 8 patches to get it so there was no visible residue. Ran a patch through with barrel oil last and it came out clean.

I wondered that myself since I have run nothing but copper plated ammo since the first 500 rounds of lead ammo. After i broke it down and cleaned it I looked through the barrel with a soft white light at the end. It looks amazingly clear. Thats not to say there isn't spots I can't see, but nothing like what I've seen on youtube videos.

Although Hoppe's will clean copper, it's more of a carbon solvent than it is for copper. If you've shot over 500 rounds and only took 8 patches to clean, you either have a really good barrel, or didn't clean it enough.

Try soaking a patch with solvent and leave it there for 10-15 mins, and then run a dry patch and see what the color is. Hoppe's a very mild solvent and take its time to do its work.

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Edited February 7, 2016 by shawnhu

[22Plinker]

Although Hoppe's will clean copper, it's more of a carbon solvent than it is for copper. If you've shot over 500 rounds and only took 8 patches to clean, you either have a really good barrel, or didn't clean it enough.

Try soaking a patch with solvent and leave it there for 10-15 mins, and then run a dry patch and see what the color is. Hoppe's a very mild solvent and take its time to do its work.

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Next time I break it down to clean it i will leave a soaked patch in there for a couple minutes.  Normally after I get everything torn down i spray the Hoppe's 9 down the barrel (each end) and let it sit while I clean and oil the action.  Then I run the brush down the barrel and then two patches to get the heavy gunk out.  Then I spray the front part of the bore snake (before the wires) with Hoppe's and run that through three times.  Then I run lightly sprayed patches through until they come out clean (which this time was 6 patches so 8 total).  Then one patch with barrel oil.  That last patch was very clean, especially compared to the first two. 

 

I'll try to find time to break it down and clean it this week and I'll post pics of the progress, and final patch and one after the final that is soaked and allowed to sit for 5 minutes.

 

EDIT:

 

Before I started using the boresnake (wire brush only) it would take 15-20 patches to get it clean.  The boresnake does a great job.

Edited February 7, 2016 by 22Plinker

[shawnhu]

Next time I break it down to clean it i will leave a soaked patch in there for a couple minutes. Normally after I get everything torn down i spray the Hoppe's 9 down the barrel (each end) and let it sit while I clean and oil the action. Then I run the brush down the barrel and then two patches to get the heavy gunk out. Then I spray the front part of the bore snake (before the wires) with Hoppe's and run that through three times. Then I run lightly sprayed patches through until they come out clean (which this time was 6 patches so 8 total). Then one patch with barrel oil. That last patch was very clean, especially compared to the first two.

I'll try to find time to break it down and clean it this week and I'll post pics of the progress, and final patch and one after the final that is soaked and allowed to sit for 5 minutes.

EDIT:

Before I started using the boresnake (wire brush only) it would take 15-20 patches to get it clean. The boresnake does a great job.

When you say spray, you are referring to the solvent, or Hoppe's oil? I have the bottle version and I dip my patches. You should see greenish blue if you're getting copper out.

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[22Plinker]

When you say spray, you are referring to the solvent, or Hoppe's oil? I have the bottle version and I dip my patches. You should see greenish blue if you're getting copper out.

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the Hoppe's kit came with a small spray bottle of solvent and a small bottle with a drop tip.  I use the spray bottle in the barrel and to coat the action....and the other bottle to soak patches and the bore snake.

[shawnhu]

the Hoppe's kit came with a small spray bottle of solvent and a small bottle with a drop tip. I use the spray bottle in the barrel and to coat the action....and the other bottle to soak patches and the bore snake.

Do you recognize any of these bottles? Which do you wet patches with and let it soak in the barrel?

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[Tacti_Steve]

I didn't read all of these posts but wanted to add my tips from my 795. Yes clean your gun correctly. For some reason the 795 is more picky about ammo than the model 60 is. I had to send mine in because after a couple of mags it wouldn't fire. They polished the bolt and it's an amazing gun. Shoots smooth tight groups now! Especially if you have a newer 795 made by Remington I would recommend polishing the bolt. The type of ammo you shoot is going to make a world of difference in any 22. Cheap Remington rounds are going to float all over the place. I hunt with norma tac-22 high performance rounds. Even though they are lead slugs they come coated in bore butter. They will drill tacks at 100+ yards. Most importantly the powder burns clean. That in my opinion is the biggest impactor with any semi-auto 22. Keep the inside clear of powder so the bolt can reseat properly and they will fire so much better. I love these Marlins. I've owned them for the past 20 years. I have a 99, 2 60's, 70, and 795. all different years. You can spend a full day at the range or shooting woodchucks with them without a problem if you run good rounds out of them. Put cheap dirty bullets in them and they'll jam every mag and shoot like crap. IMO CCI's are the most cost effective balance for a full day of shooting. The powder is clean enough and they are a copper round that seems to leave the micro grooved barrel clean enough. Good luck and have fun!

[22Plinker]

Do you recognize any of these bottles? Which do you wet patches with and let it soak in the barrel?

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I have both of those, but the one on the right, dark brown bottle has a tip on it similar to the oil top.  It has a little spout.  I also have another bottle a little thinner but taller than the right bottle with a spray nozzle on it

 

 

Just realized the label says Hoppe's Elite and not Hoppe's #9.  Sorry if that added to the confusion.

 

[22Plinker]

I didn't read all of these posts but wanted to add my tips from my 795. Yes clean your gun correctly. For some reason the 795 is more picky about ammo than the model 60 is. I had to send mine in because after a couple of mags it wouldn't fire. They polished the bolt and it's an amazing gun. Shoots smooth tight groups now! Especially if you have a newer 795 made by Remington I would recommend polishing the bolt. The type of ammo you shoot is going to make a world of difference in any 22. Cheap Remington rounds are going to float all over the place. I hunt with norma tac-22 high performance rounds. Even though they are lead slugs they come coated in bore butter. They will drill tacks at 100+ yards. Most importantly the powder burns clean. That in my opinion is the biggest impactor with any semi-auto 22. Keep the inside clear of powder so the bolt can reseat properly and they will fire so much better. I love these Marlins. I've owned them for the past 20 years. I have a 99, 2 60's, 70, and 795. all different years. You can spend a full day at the range or shooting woodchucks with them without a problem if you run good rounds out of them. Put cheap dirty bullets in them and they'll jam every mag and shoot like crap. IMO CCI's are the most cost effective balance for a full day of shooting. The powder is clean enough and they are a copper round that seems to leave the micro grooved barrel clean enough. Good luck and have fun!

 

When I first got the Marlin (my son got his the same day) we picked up 2 bulk boxes of 525 Federal Champion. We split them and fired roughly an equal amount.  Then we picked up a few boxes of Thunderbolt.  OMFG it was horrible!  I only fired 2 rounds because it was just the dirtiest crap i had ever seen.  First shot flashed hot powder on my leading hand when it failed to eject properly.  The second shot caused the gun to not fire another round because all the grit that was inside the action.

 

I had one of the guys at the gun club take the action completely apart.  Come to find out it was carbon build up and grit on one of the pins that resets the hammer.  It was a mess.  So the guy at the gun club showed me how to clean it thoroughly and oil everything... it shot like a dream after.

 

Since then I sold the boxes of Thunderbolt and stick with the CCI and Federal.  There is little difference in those.  Not so much at 50 yards and under but shooting at 100 yards the difference between CCI and Federal become very obvious.  One of the members at the club gave me a handful of remingtom golden from the bucket of bullets... fired 1 magazine worth and was not very impressed.  I couldn't hit a 2 inch group at 50 yards.  I'll have to see if i can find the target but i believe it was a 2.1 inch group with two shots that were barely on the 8inch target.

 

 

[airedale]

Your problem can be linked to either your scope or ammo and maybe a combo of both. When a gun starts shooting off all of a sudden more than likely the scope has moved either by banging it or the mounting has somehow loosened. All guns will have an ammo preference from both accuracy and in the case of autoloaders functioning reliably. In most cases a good brand of standard velocity ammo will give the best accuracy.

 

A 22 rimfire barrel rarely becomes fouled enough to cause any drastic loss in accuracy unless it has damage in side like bad pitting or rough rifling that peels the bullet as it travels down the barrel. Rimfire barrels like to be seasoned, on some of my guns I have fired several thousand rounds between cleanings with zero effect on accuracy. In fact after a good cleaning it will usually take a couple of hundred rounds to get it back to where it was. With autoloaders the action and chamber will have to be cleaned from a function standpoint. 

 

One more thing for optimum accuracy a scope for a 22 needs to either be a dedicated rimfire scope or a scope that has the ability to adjust for parallax at the shorter ranges they are generally shot.

 

Al

Edited February 7, 2016 by airedale

[shawnhu]

I have both of those, but the one on the right, dark brown bottle has a tip on it similar to the oil top. It has a little spout. I also have another bottle a little thinner but taller than the right bottle with a spray nozzle on it

IMG_2004.JPG

Just realized the label says Hoppe's Elite and not Hoppe's #9. Sorry if that added to the confusion.

Either the one on the right, or the spray bottle you have is ok as a solution to clean the barrel. After you feel you're done cleaning, run a patch with the oil on the left to coat the barrel to prevent oxidation followed by a dry patch to remove excess oil.

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[22Plinker]

Your problem can be linked to either your scope or ammo and maybe a combo of both. When a gun starts shooting off all of a sudden more than likely the scope has moved either by banging it or the mounting has somehow loosened. All guns will have an ammo preference from both accuracy and in the case of autoloaders functioning reliably. In most cases a good brand of standard velocity ammo will give the best accuracy.

 

A 22 rimfire barrel rarely becomes fouled enough to cause any drastic loss in accuracy unless it has damage in side like bad pitting or rough rifling that peels the bullet as it travels down the barrel. Rimfire barrels like to be seasoned, on some of my guns I have fired several thousand rounds between cleanings with zero effect on accuracy. In fact after a good cleaning it will usually take a couple of hundred rounds to get it back to where it was. With autoloaders the action and chamber will have to be cleaned from a function standpoint. 

 

One more thing for optimum accuracy a scope for a 22 needs to either be a dedicated rimfire scope or a scope that has the ability to adjust for parallax at the shorter ranges they are generally shot.

 

Al

 

Yeah my initial problem was the rings sliding back on the rail.  I've fired 120 rounds through it since the cleaning and its staying consistent and the rings aren't moving.  I really think that part was just the locking bolt loosened up.  Now with the thread lock on them they don't seem to be moving.

 

I read an article about rifle accuracy being decreased immediately following cleaning but didn't really give it much thought.

 

The scope is a BSA Sweet 22.  Not the most expensive scope but it works well for an inexpensive gun.

 

[airedale]

The BSA "sweet 22" should work fine for your rifle.

 

Al

[22Plinker]

I have officially fired 106 rounds through the gun since its last cleaning.  During the breakdown I put a small LED light at the end and looked down the barrel.  Nothing appeared obviously outright as fowling.

 

I did my normally cleaning.  Sprayed the hoppes and used the wire brush, then ran soaked patches through it and got these results.

 

 

After this i sprayed more hoppes down the barrel and let it soak while i cleaned and oiled the rest of the parts.  I then ran a soaked path half way down the barrel and let it sit while i made a sandwich... came back and it was very white with only a very small spot of dark gray (looked like carbon).  I didn't get a pic of it but it was cleaner than the bottom (last) patch in the above photo.

 

With the kid off from school this week and much nicer weather ahead I am going to try to get out to the outdoor range and double check my zero at 50 and 100 yards.  I'll post the results.

 

I want to thank everyone so much for all the advice and help.  You have been wonderful.  This is exactly why I joined this site.

Edited February 15, 2016 by 22Plinker