Grumblings 4F, 7M & 7P

[chrisw]

I have hunted the same state land in 7M with a group of 4 guys for the last 15 years or so. I can definitely say that it seems there are less deer there now than before. We would always kill a few deer opening day, now most times noone even lays eyes on one. They do hand out for tags like candy. As far as Hunter numbers go, there are still a fair amount of people there on opening morning, after that it drops off sharply, always has. This year was by far the worst and has us contemplating if we want this tradition to continue or not. I'm sure there are several variables to take into consideration but at the end of the day, there are definitely a lot less deer. Honestly we noticed a steady decline ever since rifles were allowed in Madison county.

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[Curmudgeon]

1 hour ago, chrisw said:

Honestly we noticed a steady decline ever since rifles were allowed in Madison county.

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Correlation, okay. Causation? 

[chrisw]

Correlation, okay. Causation? 

I certainly believe so.

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[Curmudgeon]

2 hours ago, chrisw said:

I certainly believe so.

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I wonder if there are data? There are certainly fewer deer regionally than before the bad winter kills of 00 and 01. That's about the time Otsego County went to rifles. I never drew any connection between population and implements. In the late 90s, herds of >100 could be observed at times. Those numbers made hardwood regeneration impossible. 

This line of thinking leads to a debate about what is the appropriate deer density. Foremost for me is forest health. 

[chrisw]

It would be interesting, the first few years of rifle season there was a lot of shots, a lot of people, a lot of deer being killed. Although year after year all of those things seem to be dwindling. I mean it's no secret you will get more deer killed with rifles, especially in ag type areas. I believe the combination of generous permits and rifles, possibly even the Saturday opener plays a large part?

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[coonhunter]

I hunt a lot in 4F and 7M. I am one of the people that say the Amish have really taken a toll on the deer and fish populations. The law seems unable or incapable of doing anything about it. The farm i hunted my whole life, I don't even bother to hunt anymore because the deer just aren't there anymore. The neighbor that I shared information and sightings with has owned his land for 30+ years, and he is ready to just sell out and move. 

I have found other places to hunt, and I do see plenty of deer and bucks, but the quality I have not been able to find. I went to the Brookfield stateland late in the rifle season and put a couple people on nice 2 year old 8 points, which i can do almost every year because the drivers avoid the spot because of water and thick brush. Luckily, I know a good way in from my coonhunting days.

Guys are getting some nice bucks on lands where they and the neighbors are working together. It just gets tougher every year for the hunters that don't have the money or the desire to pay to hunt. There is certainly a lot fewer hunters, and most of them sit. The deer find the safe places and stay there til dark once the pressure kicks up the opening weekend of rifle.