Purchasing hunting dogs/family companions

[Salmon_Run]

I'm going to make some sound recommendations to all regarding purchasing canine companions, please take no offense and this is only a recommendation based upon my personal experiences: 

1. only purchase from a established reputable breeder, there is a lot of information on-line, talk to their references and people that have actually purchased and hunted or trained their lines of breeding

2. make sure there is a "health guarantee" most breeder guarantee dogs for a year to be free from genetic defects

3. review the lines from both parents and look for any "titles" or certification listed on the pedigree (this show train ability and hunt worthiness) again on-line for clarifications if needed

4. look for health clearances from both parents (hip dysplasia, PRA, canine eye registry or genetic defects (EIC, myopathy)

5. understand that as an owner one is responsible for veterinary exams and follow ups as well if one requests AKC or other titles and to validate health guarantees. You are responsible for such expenses as hip/elbow x-rays or other exams)

6. picking an canine, volumes could be written and I take hours selecting the canine I wish and have waited several years for a certain breeding, simple rule-don't select the puppy that runs to you and grabs your shoe lace, bites or is aggressive in the litter unless you are an experienced handler, this puppy may be dominate in nature and a handful to train; also don't select the puppy that is overly shy and hides away from the others or you, this puppy may be hard to train and condition to loud noises, crowds or gun fire.

7. training- do yourself and your puppy justice and follow through on basic socialization and training, you'll be glad and your family will be proud of your life long family member....

Hope this helps anyone in their decision making...

Best of luck,

Dan   

[Sambuca]

Good post Salmon.

I'll add a few things.

1) If your getting a bird dog, Brittany, GSP, Pointer Setter etc.  These are high energy dogs and need attention or they will make you miserable.  They need a job and they need to do it regularly.  If your not ready for the puppy commitment, don't do it.

2) Titles are a great thing!  I run Brittanys in horseback field trials.  Mine are definitely not foot hunting dogs until they are old and retired.  That's how they are trained.  However, any dog can be trained to shorten up and hunt at shotgun range.  The titles FC, AFC, SH, MH etc. will tell you they are highly trainable and are, first and foremost, bird dogs.  If they weren't they would never get those titles.  JH (Junior Hunter) means almost nothing.  I could get a collie to do that.  

3) Stay away from show lines if you want to hunt, unless the breeder does both.  Those show titles will be CH etc.  This is especially true in English Pointers and Setters.  The show lines are very different from the field lines.

 

[Sambuca]

I'll add. 

Don't insist on the pick of the litter.  At 7 weeks no one knows what they will become.  People do all kinds of crazy stuff to figure out which will be the best.  It never ends that way.  Grab a puppy, even if it's the ugliest one, take it home and bond with it.  If the genetics and the bond are there you'll most likely be good.

And, find a good trainer in your area who can help you when you need it.  You will likely hit a wall at some point and You'll be amazed what a professional trainer can see that you cant.  

 

[left field]

All solid advice. 

People can get a little emotional when training their own dogs, so I used to remind handlers to train as if it’s a job. Fair but firm is the approach.

There are a lot of training methods out there and some that were acceptable years ago are less so today. Educate yourself and find something that feels right to you, and that you can stick with. 

Dogs are like kids ... they’re dying to learn. Go slow, break it down into small understandable action and rewards, and build from there. 

Train everyday even if something minor on a daily walk. It builds trust. 

I would look further back than sire and dam for health clearances. A couple of generations at least. 

 

[Sambuca]

Biggest mistake I made with my first Brittany was letting it get into too many birds.  We all want to see our puppy point a bird.  After all that's why we got it, right?  Wrong!!  I had a lot of fun with that puppy but he has been a house dog since he turned a year old .  Hunting, he will run off and bust every bird he smells.  No fun chasing a dog around when you want to be hunting over a pointing dog.

Take your time.  Do a couple of birds early (on a check cord) to instill prey drive and then STOP.  If you go too far your dog will be hunting for him/herself and not for the team (you and him/her).  Once the puppy is bird crazy (it doesn't take but a few quail), work on getting it to hunt at the range you want.  For me, a field trialer, I want her in the next field.  For a hunting dog, you might want him/her closer.

And most important, make it listen!!  Teach it commands and then enforce them every time.  eCollars are awesome but only use on commands the dog already knows and obeys 90% of the time.  Those commands are learned with a  check cord attached to the dog.  Patience is the key!  

[Versatile_Hunter]

The German breeding system keeps detailed information on all dogs certified to breed (and on those that fail too).  If you get a dog bred through this system, you can be sure that every antecedent passed a series of temperament and health evaluation.  

[left field]

The SV system is designed to further working dogs. As I recall, if you want to register your litter, the sire and dam needs to be judged at a breed survey for overall conformation, posses a working title, and have health clearances. 

Wouldn't fly here.

[Versatile_Hunter]

4 hours ago, left field said:

The SV system is designed to further working dogs. As I recall, if you want to register your litter, the sire and dam needs to be judged at a breed survey for overall conformation, posses a working title, and have health clearances. 

Wouldn't fly here.

That’s for shepherds and I assume there’s a registered American club (wouldn’t be with AKC of course).  The Germans have a similar testing system for hunting dogs called the JGHV https://www.jgv-usa.org/events/test-descriptions/ and the breed clubs impose additional criteria for breeding certification. These are the North American club pages for the most popular German breeds:

https://www.vdd-gna.org 

https://dkgna.org 

https://www.dl-gna.org

 

[Salmon_Run]

Thanks for adding to my original post, all great things to consider when spending a good chunk of money, buy reputably from a breeder, obtain good health care, socialize and train responsibility. 

I also routinely socialize my pups from a early age into maturity, I have CDs of gun fire that increases in volume slowly, fireworks, and thunder storms that I play. I also sit for hours in the vet's office, walk city streets, find crowds and sit outside Walmart experiencing contact for the puppy. All things that pay great dividends later on.  

Skeet waiting in the driveway, never let a trainable moment pass !!

[Sambuca]

great picture and a beautiful dog!

[left field]

13 hours ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

That’s for shepherds...

Yes. I just used the SV as an example of Germany's overall approach (breed survey + working titles + health clearance) to allowing a dog to be bred or its offspring registered. 

[Versatile_Hunter]

38 minutes ago, left field said:

Yes. I just used the SV as an example of Germany's overall approach (breed survey + working titles + health clearance) to allowing a dog to be bred or its offspring registered. 

Exactly. And the American chapters are plentiful so it’s actually quite easy to find a pup from one of these breedings. It takes a lot of the guesswork out of the equation. 
I had a working line German shepherd (Czech/DDR lines) a long time ago and I dabbled in schutzhund but I never actually tested.  I have my German versatile certified to breed. 

[left field]

One of the hardest dogs I ever took a bite from was a Czech GSD. Tough dog too. What that handler had to do to out him was not for mixed company. 

Another friend wanted a hard dog so he imported a KNPV dog. It took off three of his fingers when he was trying to feed it.

[Versatile_Hunter]

14 minutes ago, left field said:

One of the hardest dogs I ever took a bite from was a Czech GSD. Tough dog too. What that handler had to do to out him was not for mixed company. 

Another friend wanted a hard dog so he imported a KNPV dog. It took off three of his fingers when he was trying to feed it.

Haha, I take it the dog wasn't neutered... 

Yeah, bite work is a different world. These German hunting dogs were originally bred to have some sharpness to them. They've gone 180 on that and any dog that shows aggression towards a human is disqualified from breeding. I actually saw this happen to a really good bitch that growled and snapped at a judge during a dental evaluation. 

[left field]

These weren't dogs you brought around other people unless you wanted them taken out. 

I don't see the value in human aggression in a hunting dog.

[Versatile_Hunter]

30 minutes ago, left field said:

These weren't dogs you brought around other people unless you wanted them taken out. 

I don't see the value in human aggression in a hunting dog.

Agreed.  The challenge is in breeding a dog that isn’t aggressive with people or with other dogs but has the tenacity to dispatch predators with minimal training. Also, one that points, retrieves, swims, tracks, etc, all largely on instinct. I think the JGHV has captured this well. 

[Salmon_Run]

Clarification on titles, for hunting/working dogs I look for hunt or field test titles, this is NOT a show title, these titles show train worthiness and hunt instincts. If both sire and dam have hunt titles it is likely that the offspring will also show great instincts. I firmly believe that basic personality traits are visible at 7 weeks of age, as I described above in watching puppies. Any reputable breeder can assist and guide you with that. I like an early pick as possible for this reason. 

Hope this helps..... I have four "active" working and hunting dogs, they train year around and one has gone South winters to stay in shape and studded several litters professionally....