Doc

I really am trying to see the difference and not having a lot of luck. Both situations present a conscious decision to leave a mortally wounded animal to die of its wounds with exactly the same results.

This all points out the fact that when people start generalizing about the conditions and situations of an entire state, they are correct only part of the time and full of crap the rest of the time. I am sure there are areas of over-population, but also areas of under population. Furthermore, to blame the demise of habitat primarily on deer probably isn't all that accurate either. I realize that I don't have any kind of title or degree in biology, but I can certainly use my eyes to understand that NYS agriculture has taken a severe hit and small family farms are being turned into maturing forests with a heavy over-story that is raising hob with transition lands of brushlots and grazing/ browsing. Marginal farmlands are now deserted and being split up into segments of near-suburbia, settled by tree-huggers who want to live in places that have the characteristics of old-growth forests. So perhaps instead of looking for reasons to eliminate deer populations, more attention should be placed on human land use.

Pointing out absurdity ..... with absurdity. No, it's never right to falsely identify as someone else to make a point against them. As far as whether those sentiments really are not in the minds of the people of the Brady organization ...... The jury is out. Frankly knowing the extent that these anti-gunners will go in their rabid campaigns to eliminate guns, certainly made that message a more believable representation. So before we get all weepy for the Brady bunch and start sniveling about how they have been mis-represented, let's understand that a message of that sort coming from them might really not be all that far out of character.

Last entry on this thread was April. The anti-gun politicians have us figured out pretty darn well, don't they? A whole lot of noise for a very short while and then ... Poof! .... no more interest. By the time the next election rolls around that involves those creeps that voted for this law, nobody will even remember what all the fuss was all about. It's already forgotten ancient history. Once again the politicians escape totally unscathed and still thumbing their noses at us for the slick way that they have further deprived gun owners of their 2nd amendment rights. I predicted this, but I was hopeful that I would be wrong.

What is it about all that that is so much fun??? I had a great time just looking at the video. I can't imagine just what a great time those people are having. Wish I was there!!!

It's a pretty common practice with gut-shot deer during bow season to simply wait 8 hours or even overnight for the critter to seize up and die. We don't seem to get too bothered by that situation. If it is in as bad a shape as described, it likely won't be living too much longer anyway. I wouldn't criticize anyone regardless of which solution they chose. But then I am not the CO that comes along after hearing the after-hours shot and sees the flashlight bobbing around the edge of the cornfield .... lol. That's why cell phones are a nice piece of hunting equipment. Call the authorities and get advice from them. Apparently the deer isn't going anywhere. And be sure to get the name and rank of the official that you are talking to in case there are any repercussions afterward.

Ha-ha .... I wonder how pissed these guys were when they saw the truck there and thought about the possibility that you may have pushed out their wounded deer. See, there are many ways of looking at the same scenario. Aside from the occasional anti-hunter, there are damn few people out there trying to mess up your hunt. You may get irritated at the bad luck of one these kinds of situations, but there is no need to question the ethics of these guys. They were not there to mess with hunt and were merely doing the responsible thing of trying to recover a wounded deer.

That's not a pleasant picture. I will just wait until after deer season and pull out the .223 and the caller. I guess they get a free pass when I have my deer rifle.

Actually it was more of a comedy depiction of hunting that took place in the middle of a very heavily populated set of neighborhoods. It definitely did not show hunting as most of us experience it, but did show the huge problem of excess deer population in urban/suburban areas. My opinion is that they did offer up a lot of statistics and arguments favorable to hunting. But the area being hunted in created some rather bizarre problems for the "hunters". I have a hard time calling it unethical given the weird places they were trying to hunt. Simple things like blood-trailing an arrowed deer through the back yards (and occasionally front yards) kind of created some sticky situations with neighbors. It's not a show that I miss because it really looked like some rather unpleasant hunting, and had nothing in common with any kind of hunting that I do. In fact even in spite of the attempted humor, it got very boring, very quickly, and I believe that is why it only lasted 1 season.

Actually quite apart from all this garbage from our resident PETA member, I do have a question that is related to the original question. I was wondering the other day about what would happen if I saw a coyote while hunting with my .270. I would like to do something with the hide of one of those critters, but I wonder about what kind of damage might be done. I am shooting a .270 with 150 grain spire point. Am I likely to see some blown apart unusable mess if I take one out with that rifle?

Ha! like you actually worry about fueling the anti-gun crew's argument. All I have heard out of you is anti hunting, anti-hunter comments.

Apparently you seem to have a problem with established and proven principles of game management. Sorry about your ignorance. It appears that your anti-hunting mentality runs far deeper than any logic will ever be able to cut through. And what kind of faulty reading skills ever gave you the impression that I ever said anything close to "all hunters are good guys", I can't even begin to imagine.

I hunt some pretty active state land during bow season, and I can tell you that between the mountain bikers, hikers, joggers (yes people actually jog up our "killer hill"), horseback riders, small game hunters, stray dogs, and other bowhunters, interruptions happen very frequently. But guess what.... I blow off a little steam to anyone that will listen, and then I get over it, and then I go out and get a deer. I think Rob just got to the "blowing off a little steam" phase and hasn't yet gotten to the "getting over it stage" yet. He will. These things only become deal-breakers if you let them. I probably have it worse than most because over the decades (many, many of them) of hunting this same land, most of my hunting here were spent in conditions of never seeing another hunter (or person) during bow season. So all these interruptions are even more dramatic for me because I have experienced much better times. But if nothing else, I am adaptable. .... lol

The DEC probably has some statistically calculated factor for "faked" reports ... lol. You know, one of those things that are based on estimates, and guestimates and other calculated inter-related factors and guessed-at constants that rely on other calculated and guessed-at factors and constants, Sure, they probably throw all that into a pot and stir it all up, chanting some mysterious incantations, and out pops a "Faked Report Factor" to be entered into all the other population statistics.

I guess I must have a different attitude about hunting than most people. I never saw a reason or purpose to turn it all into some kind of arcade game. I try not to let competition of any sort with other hunters enter into my thinking or satisfaction with the activity. I have a competition between myself and the deer and that is sufficient for me. That is one of the reasons why I have never gotten into the antler scoring thing. I couldn't score a deer if I had to. I really don't want my harvests and my fulfillment to be brought down to mere numbers. My hunting is a lot more laid-back than that. That frees me up to simply enjoy the hunt and the things of nature that surround the hunt without having any pressures about how my efforts and results measure up against anybody else. Like I said, mine is a minority view and is based strictly on what I personally want to get out of hunting. That is not a judgment of what others want or do.

Well, you know that we spend a lot of money on the department that supposedly manages our wildlife (Let's not get into a discussion about how well they do that .....lol). They have determined that we need to regulate the populations of deer and that controlling the numbers of females is the most effective way to do that. The antlerless permit is the way that is best done. It is our part as hunters to participate in that thinning of doe numbers. So generally, that's what I do. That's not to say that I always agree with their assessment of the herd size. And when I don't, I have been known to not shoot any does ..... That is a rare year when I make that choice.

Wow! Poor ol' Rob is not having a real good day. Sorry about that Rob, but you have to admit that your original post did leave a lot of confusion. Also criticizing someone who was in the midst of doing the proper thing of following up on a wounded deer, really didn't sit all that well with other members. I'll say this. I have had a lot of hunts busted by a whole lot of different circumstances. And I have never been afraid to do a little whine here on this forum. Some times it helps to blow off a little steam when unfortunate events happen. People understand that. But to try to blame people for an innocent encounter especially where they are doing an honorable and ethical thing of following up on a wounded deer probably was an invite to a bit of abuse. Take a deep breath and understand that people here were simply having a little fun with you. Your post was worded badly, and expressed a sentiment not shared by very many people. Also understand that most people here have more of a problem with those that do an insufficient job of following up after the shot than someone who inadvertently blunders into another hunter's set-up. I understand when things go badly and our hunt is interrupted, That it can be a bit frustrating. But if you relax, sit back and think about it all, you will see that it was simply one of those unavoidable things that are irritating, but not really done with any malicious intent.

There are many reasons for hunting, and eating is just one of them. Leave the condemnation of taking trophies and enjoying the challenge of hunting, or whatever other reasons that people hunt to those who would shut down hunting for any and all reasons. Absolutely there are many anti-hunting folks who try to make it their business to judge and condemn our activity and motives as you are. They do so with an eye toward shutting us down. And every time you join forces with the antis by condemning the motives of other hunters, you serve their purposes and add support to their efforts of doing away with all hunting. I have to say that the tone and content of a couple of your replies certainly looks like you have more than a little commonality with those folks. There is a distinct Disney-like aspect to a couple of your replies which is the hallmark of most anti hunting people. And of course the main point that is flying completely over your head is that the alternatives to any activity that controls the population of any wildlife species is a cyclical catastrophic collapse of their entire population. And that only after the populations endure all manner of anguish and suffering by the ravages of disease and starvation. That is what you are a proponent of when you start talking about the condemnation of harvesting any species.

I believe that anyone who wants to spend every waking hour working at deer hunting and wants to devote huge amounts of their personal resources toward deer management (farming), can in fact, become very successful at harvesting very impressive animals. It's not a real trick and really doesn't require a whole lot of talent ...... just raw effort and unusual dedication. The rest of us do have lives separate from hunting, and a bit more balance in our lives. To me, that would be the quickest way to turn something that I love into a complete drudge of pressure and work. I would never be willing to do that to my favorite pastime. For me, hunting has always ben recreation .... not work. It is not my career, and that fact alone allows me to enjoy it to its fullest.

Sometimes just switching up tactics can put some extra life back into your interest. I have to say that if all I did was to sit in a stand for hour after hour for a couple months, it would get a bit tiresome. Try getting out and putting in some time still-hunting. It is a whole different way of hunting and very productive as well.

The last few years, there seems to have been some kind of covert rut in our area. Rubs and scrapes are few and far between. And yet personal sightings and camera results show that there are plenty of bucks of all sizes around. It doesn't make a lot of sense, but that is what I have been seeing.

This a point that I have been making for several years now, ever since I have been hearing all these people who want AR to be adopted statewide. The point is that not all habitat and population situations are created equal across this state and basically one size regulation does not fit all. I'm not sure what is so difficult to understand about that. I think that hunters are very susceptible to the line of thinking that what they see in their hunting area is the way it is all over the state and can't imagine that there are places that may not have the same opportunities as they do. It's either that or it is an attitude of "I've got mine and the heck with anyone else". But either way, I totally understand that when you severely limit or eliminate DMPs, and then place severe restrictions on what bucks can be taken, you are pretty much telling the hunters of those areas that they can spend the bucks for their license, but it pretty much entitles them to only participate in a "nature walk". Grab your camera and leave the gun at home. And then we wring our hands over the fact that every year brings a smaller and smaller number of hunters.

It's been a lot of years since I have felt the need to impress anyone other than myself with my harvest selections. Buck or doe, it's all venison. As far as challenges go, I will say that the only thing that makes a buck a bigger challenge is the fact that there are fewer of them. As far as I know, there have been no studies that claim that bucks are any more intelligent than does.

So that's how they pull off that disappearing act. They have learned how to shed their antlers for self-protection.

I'm thinking maybe something like www.peta.org might be more in line with his/her interests.