Doc

Why do people just shrug there shoulders and take this crap from our public servants. This guy answers to somebody. Go up the line until you get somebody's attention. I can't guarantee that you will always have success, but an attempt is better than just knuckling under to somebody's incompetence.

Look, When I go to the town clerk for my license, she asks me what WMU I want my antlerless permit for. She then puts that into the computer. It doesn't seem to really be that much of a problem. So if she were to ask me whether I am for or against ARs, I doubt it would be that much more of a problem would it? And she could just as easily check a "yes" box or a "No" box couldn't she? Then let the damned computer do what computers were meant to do. No analyzing. No big expensive Cornell survey and resulting over-blown study. No need for touchy-feely investigations into your background and what makes you answer the way you did. You know what the question is, so ask the damned question and be done with it. Man, it seems as though everyone wants to take the long (expensive) way around to get a simple opinion. Further, if more complex surveys are required, how about actually using up-to-date methods and technology. U.S. mail is about as archaic a way as possible and really stretches the credibility of any survey organization that is claiming to be using the latest most current technology. My gosh, this is the electronic age. I wouldn't think that postage, and manual submission, and paying someone to manually input the data into computers is really the most effective way to gather information. The DEC has a web site. There are many forms of cheat-proof survey software available. What the heck, you want to know hunters opinions, survey them there ...... for free, or for whatever the software might cost to use. No you won't get 100%, but you probably will beat the 7000 number by a bunch and save a pile of money in the process. This worship of the Cornell statisticians is getting a bit silly. We sit here and complain about every decision that comes out of the DEC when in fact most of that crap is based on studies by the supposed wizards at Cornell.

This is the one that gets me. The old "hiding in line with game" game. Twice I have encountered guys dressed completely in camo including face paint on state land on opening day of gun. What on earth were they thinking? These two incidents were different in that fortunately there didn't happen to be any shot opportunities but similar in potential consequences. No there was no deer between us, but there could have been. I never saw either one until they moved. Now that speaks very well for the quality of their camo, but doesn't say much for the quality of their mental processes. But those two episodes were just additional situations that proved to me the value of blaze orange, or more specifically the foolishness of not wearing it. The idea of hiding from other hunters is simply ridiculousness and makes a good basis for becoming another horrible statistic. How much is a deer worth?

Here is what is starting to bug me about all this stuff. Even without the crossbow, I am already hearing some of these complaints about how the bowhunters are making big dents in the buck population before the gunners even get a crack at them. There is already growing resentment among the gun hunters, and I'm not even sure that they aren't correct. Back in the early days of bowhunting our success rates weren't really all that significant, and our numbers were really quite small and we didn't even offer a blip on anyone's radar. Now, primarily because of technology and equipment improvements, we are starting to receive some unwanted scrutiny by those in hunting who hold the majority position as far as numbers. And scattered throughout that article are references to exactly this same problem in PA. Apparently the addition of crossbows into bow seasons has caused some serious spikes in bow season harvests that are catching the full attention and concern of their gun hunters. That is not a real good problem to have developing. We already have way to much of that sort of thing and don't even have the crossbow entry into bow season yet. I am primarily a bow hunter and really cannot sympathize all that much with their concerns, but I do have to be concerned about the unhappiness of this majority of hunters with our impact on their season. That cannot be a good thing. At any rate, I though the article was interesting to say the least. It does provide a little more food for thought to add into the issue.

I got my info from an article in the latest NY Outdoor News.

I think I have finally realized just how political our game management really is. I think that from a biological standpoint, the DEC has concluded that there is no significant need for AR. And I believe I have seen DEC quotes to that effect. I also believe that they are viewing AR as a "social" issue and not something of biological significance. And that probably explains the "social" approach to the problem. I don't know. That is simply what I am surmising from some of the quotes that I have seen. And it is true, the majority opinion is not always the correct one (Obamacare is a good example). But perhaps establishing which opinion really is in the majority might stop some of this eye poking that seems to go on with this issue. Everyone thinks their opinion represents the majority opinion. Maybe this will clarify that and calm some of these people down a bit.

Actually, ATVs have extended the hunting years for many. I know that cardiac hill behind the house has already claimed a neighbor. And at my age, I sometimes figure it is a bit smarter to take the ATV to the top of the hill. I park it just under the crest of the hill and walk to wherever I feel I have to go. I don't always do it. Sometimes I like a good slow steady still-hunt up the hill. And there are times when it just isn't safe to take the ATV up such as when there is significant snow on the hill. It was only a few years ago that I foolishly dragged two pretty good-sized does off the hill at once. Thankfully that was all downhill. And then the year before last I pulled a huge 10 point from the other side of the hill over the top and down to the house. At my age that probably was not one of my more brilliant moves. So, since I use the ATV for work around the homestead and use it to plow out our driveway, and will always have a need to have one around, I see no reason why I shouldn't use it to perhaps extend my life a bit by helping me get to the top of that man-killer hill .... lol. To me it just seems like the smart thing to do.

I see the benefits every year. I can't say how many times I have spotted that flash of orange even before I could tell there was a hunter out there. Even when the lighting isn't all that great that blaze orange catches attention. I am always hoping that when that other guy is swinging his scope across the woods intent on settling it in on a deer maybe it will be that little flash of orange that I'm wearing that will stop him from pulling that trigger. I know that it has stopped some petty unsafe stand set-ups from happening. It's not all that rare that I have had to move to another stand because I spotted that orange of another hunter posted in the area. Yeah, I'm a believer ..... pretty much fanatical about it.

Well, I guess the issue is not dead as far as the DEC is concerned. There is another survey being conducted by Cornell University's Human Dimension Research Unit on behalf of the DEC to once and for all get at the true attitudes of hunters toward ARs. 7000 randomly selected big game license holders will be surveyed to kind of take the temperature of big game hunters on this issue. It sounds like this survey may actually impact some regulations changes for 2015. It will be interesting to see how it all comes out. By the way, I have to ask why Cornell keeps getting all this survey money when it would be real simple to include a survey question at the time of license purchase that would reach ALL license purchasers. It seems to me that in this age of electronic license purchases and databases, the damned computers could wack this thing out without any mailings or postage or fees going off to Cornell. Simple question at time of license purchase ..... "you for it or against it". Town clerk or whoever checks the appropriate box and there you are. Push the button at the DEC headquarter's computers and out pops the answer. Why isn't it that simple and that cheap?

http://www.outdoornews.com/October-2013/Some-fret-about-high-crossbow-harvest/

Casinos are just another form of entertainment. Frankly I don't see it as an earth shattering issue.

Interesting article in the latest NYS Outdoor News on the beginnings of some debate in Pennsylvania on the impact of crossbows during bow season. I won't be commenting on it, but it is an interesting read.

I haven't found any consistent rule regarding escape. I think their first thought is just to get the heck out of there. I would say that a majority of the time they turn and go back in the direction of where they came from. But even that I have seen exceptions to. As far as uphill or down, I have seen them do either. I tracked a wounded deer across the valley once. He started out going down hill, hit the valley floor and walked on level ground, got to other side and went straight up the hill. Uphill .... downhill .... across the hill .... on the flat ..... that one didn't seem to have any real preference.

If there is any kind of gun season for deer going on, I wear lots of blaze orange. That is regardless of whether it is public or private land. By the way, with today's trespassing problems, and the frequent reports of hunting partners shooting each other, I don't see any difference between public and private land on that score.

Actually, I am happy that hunting still draws out he passions of people that still have enough interest to hold an opinion on some of the hot-button issues of our time. That demonstrates that hunting is still a deeply personal and invested activity. When you can get 3 pages of discussion about something as simple as a bow rest, it shows me that the sport of bowhunting is still alive and well and bowhunters are truly "involved". No, I don't think that we can all agree on every aspect of hunting. And I really don't believe that we should ever expect to do so. Great God a-mighty, thank heavens for opinion and free expression of those opinions .... lol.

Wow ... great video. Doesn't relate to any of the kind of deer hunting that we have around here, but I've got to say that the scenery set up a lot of views that made me wish I was there. Montana has to be one of the most beautiful states in the country. Thanks for the link.

Kind of brings on visions of those two and three foot dumps with the howling winds, and that great feeling when your car breaks traction and does that little whoopty-do in the middle of the road. Or that wonderful white knuckle ride home as those brake lights suddenly come into view through the snow. All these great images come to mind whenever someone mentions snow. And here we are just coming into that wonderful season. Isn't that just a thrilling thought ..... lol.

I guess I'm out of this discussion. I don't have a WB or a drop-away. Funny how the arrow still goes where I want it .... lol.

I hate wind. It really does suppress daylight deer movement and those that are moving are on super full alert. However, I'm not real crazy about those dead calm days either when the deer can hear every crinkle of clothing, and any sound that your bow can make on drawing. And for those that use treestands, there is always that little telltale squeak as you shift your weight to set up. I also find that on those calm days, the scent seems to meander around covering every direction evenly. But one thing is for sure. We can't control the wind, so we have to just put up with whatever Ma Nature sends at us.

I like to get on stand about 30 minutes before sunrise. It's going to be a lot later this morning. Right now it's pouring out there, and the wind is howling a bit. I may not get out this morning at all.

From what I have seen with the trimmer, I have no doubt that the DR folks have a firm commitment to quality. I'm sure that ethic runs through anything that they market. At least that will be my opinion until shown otherwise.

One thing you can never change is the fact that hunters are people too. We all have opinions. We all have different backgrounds, traditions, up-bringing, and different values and ethics handed down from parents, friends and family members. And while it may seem at times like we are constantly at each other's throats and trying to force our opinions and beliefs of everyone around us, The fact is that it is precisely these diverse opinions and the resulting discussions (sometimes heated) that is our strength. It all keeps us from marching too far off into one extreme or the other. The constant discussion from every viewpoint is what settles out the middle ground and keeps our over-all core opinions fairly unified. If anyone doubts that, just check out the reactions of the whole hunting community when outsiders (the antis) start up their campaigns against any segment of us. Our disagreements are all superficial and the antis have more than once been shocked at our actual unity when tested.

So Grow ...... How do you like that DR Trimmer. I have two of them now. The first one had a battle with a heavy deer-proof welded-wire cage around an elderberry bush down next to the driveway. I cracked the bearing casting on the rotating housing. I rebuilt that one and it is now just about as good as new. In the meantime, I had to buy another one because I rely on it so much for mowing both sides of our 1000' driveway and ditches. So now I have two. Both are the most reliable implements I have ever owned. Two pulls max and it is starting (first thing in the spring, never fails). The first one is about 9 years old now and has seen some super heavy-duty use. I don't baby these things. They are meant to work, and that's exactly what they do. They did change from a cast body to a heavy gauge sheet metal one for the new one, but it still looks super rugged.

Well, I seem to be having a bit of a problem git'n-er-done this year. There's an awful lot of "almosts", but no deer down yet. So this thread has brought to mind the most perfect excuse for my failure so far this year and I believe I am about to join in and use it this year. My official position right now (and current excuse for failure at this point of the season) is that "I will shoot no deer before it's time". I am holding out for a book buck, Oh let's say a minimum of 150 or 160. Oh sure there were a lot of "lesser" deer that I could have shot but due to my superior hunting prowess, I cannot lower my standards to shoot anything less than 4.5 years old. I want to see that severe sway in the back and a toothless, nearly blind buck that is stumbling through the woods suffering from old-age. A man has to have his standards ....right? There, how does that sound? Pretty convincing eh? Heck I can justify years of going scoreless with that line ..... lol. What the heck .... when the going gets tough, just raise your standards to the point where you can easily and believably justify failure.... Sorry couldn't help myself ..... The devil made me do it! I have noted some great examples of "implied bragging" (well some of it goes beyond implied .... lol), and I think it is all pretty funny. But I am beginning to see the usefulness of it all now.

That's all a part of hunting. There has to be a cut-off point somewhere to start and end the day. Sunrise and sunset are as good as any.