Doc

I wonder what would have happened if the guy was a bit slow in getting the treats to the bear? He probably would have had the hula-hoop wrapped around his neck .... lol.

Turnpike Lodge Guns & Gear on routes 5&20 between Canandaigua and Geneva had them for $7.00

How the heck did he ever train that critter to use the hula-hoop? I never did get to the point where I could use those things .... lol.

Personally, my opposition was never about an interruption of bow season. I simply think that the wrong problem is being addressed and in the wrong way, and that special seasons mis-represent and short-change the hunting experience for kids for all the reasons that I stated above.

It doesn't matter which version of sign you choose. The point is that it's time to put our money where our mouth is and show these guys that we haven't "gone away".

And that is the one part of the recruitment problem that no one is addressing. We came up with this special season, and now walk away patting ourselves on the back claiming "problem solved".

Of course, being a SCOPE member, I am in favor of getting the signs from that organization. That is not the cheapest place you will find them, but it does also serve as a donation to one of our more active gun advocacy organizations. However, I will say that there are many other places that these signs are for sale, and at many different prices as well. I have heard prices as low as $5. I would suggest that you call or stop into any independent firearms dealer, and there is a good chance that they will have a supply on sale. Regardless of where you decide to purchase them from, it is important to blanket the state with these things and let the politicians know that they have poked at a hornet's nest. The time for legislators to be thumbing their noses at us has to stop, and this is one small way that you can each help with that. I want to see those creeps shake in their shoes everytime they go down any road in NYS and see those signs.

If we are concerned with giving the new hunters the best chance of seeing deer, we really should be talking about opening day of gun season. Statistically that is the best opportunity for any hunters old or young. Coupled with those additional success odds is the fact that in many cases opening day exposes kids to the deer camp atmosphere which is a definite plus in recruitment. Add to that the fact that there are already potential mentors out there participating in hunting rather than having to talk someone into taking them out at some odd time. Add to that also, the fact that using opening day as an introduction to hunting also includes all family members and family friends which is an important add to the experience. My question is that now that we have this "special youth hunt", what is actually being done to promote it. If the new hunters cannot find a mentor with free time to spend with them when the season is in progress, where are these "mentors" supposed to be coming from for a special youth hunt. Oh, and that problem is made even worse by picking a time when many potential mentors are planning on bow hunting instead (that was a brilliant move). Another question is have we just established a youth hunt and then wiped our hands clean of the fundamental components of the recruitment problems? Has there been any kind of campaign begun to encourage adult hunters to bring in new hunters? Or do we just now assume that since a special season has been created that all is now well in the world? I hear a lot of talk about the problem being solved with a special season and absolutely nothing about encouraging the adult hunting population to volunteer their time. No one is trying to convince the adult hunter population that they have to become a part of the solution. It's as though just coming up with a season is somehow going to create mentors where we previously had none. I am of the opinion that when you try to brings kids into the sport by depriving them of the actual experience of hunting, i.e. deer camp and the camaraderie of the "whole experience" of hunting with friends and family, something is lost and mis-represented. But it has been decided that incoming hunters should be pulled out of the mainstream and shoved off into some isolated situation outside of hunting season like that is really some kind of solution. Simply make them fend for themselves as far as finding someone to take special time to arrange a mentorship and a separate hunt. I don't know, but to me it all seems to be a rather anemic, half-hearted, attempt rather than a well thought out recruitment plan.

Pretty meager crop in our area.

All I have heard so far was one shot, and that sounded like a .22 and likely was a small game hunter. I'll be taking a break from bowhunting for the next couple of days. I need it ..... lol.

Be careful about giving these scrapes (or even the area) too much attention. Keep your observations and scouting at a long distance until the day you decide to pop in there and hunt.

Being a believer in blaze orange for safety, I would recommend that if you're out bow hunting, be sure to have some B/O on. It may not occur to everyone, but you might want to mention that to anyone you can think of. Let's keep it safe.

Heck, deer use my driveway and quad trails. They don't care. They are all about looking for the easy way to travel from one spot to another. A cow path provides that very well.

Generally when discussing hunting with youngsters (and others) and trying to introduce and excite them about hunting, I usually stress the tradition and heritage of the activity. That is the sort of sales point that the antis cannot combat. I don't waste a lot of time discussing what pieces of equipment will make hunting less of a challenge. They already have plenty of places to learn about how to "tech-up" the activity. I have found that kids are really quite interested in some of the history and reasons for hunting if someone just takes the time to talk about that sort of thing. It probably is not doing much for the sport or the participants to convince them that they can "buy" hunting success, or have some engineer invent it for them. Between the marketing forces in hunting, and the TV shows, hunting can be entered into with the same mentality as going to the store looking for the latest gizmo from Apple. It doesn't do any harm to point out that there is a difference between taking on the challenge of hunting, and going to the store to make a random technological purchase. Sometime people have to have that explained to them. Does technology have a place in hunting? .... absolutely. Even the pioneers understood that. But as has been pointed out, the world is a rapidly changing place, and things are being invented that we couldn't even conjure up in our imaginations before. We do have to guard against technology swallowing up and burying the basic reasons why we hunt. We have to be careful that we don't start regarding hunting as merely buying the easiest way to kill animals. I'm not talking about extremes and fanaticism. I am simply talking about keeping some perspective as to why we are out there in the first place. Where are the lines drawn? That is a personal decision. It is one of those things that fall under the category of "you'll know it when you see it". But that will only happen if you are looking for it.

I generally continue on with my original plans (just stubbornness). I have to say that I have never had any luck at a stand that I have spooked a deer out of. Unfortunately I usually am in a position where there is not enough time to change locations, and I refuse to simply give up and head home (although that would probably be the smarter thing to do ... lol).

It is hard to tell just how big around that tree is, but I believe it is not a rub. Deer usually rub on trees that they can get their antlers around. I frequently see these scratching marks on the bases of some large trees and have come to believe that it is something that squirrels or some other small-game critters do.

This time of year it is almost impossible to keep up with all the activities of putting summer away for the year. When you combine all that with my bow hunting and all the prep work that goes with that, trying to find things to pass the time really is not a problem.

Quite a few years ago, we gave up on the wood heat. We are surrounded by a woods so the fuel was basically free, but there were some things that eventually caused us to discontinue using the stove for heat. First of all, there was a constant fight with creosote. The stove pipe was a very short run to outside, and the drastic change from inside temperature to sub-freezing outside temperatures occurred so fast that the condensation of gases caused a creosote build-up in a very short period of time. So the tear-down, scrubbing and reassembling was a frequent pain-in-the-butt, filthy and time-consuming job. Second, there always seemed to be a film of dust on everything. Almost impossible to stay ahead of. Third there was the obvious work involved in cutting, splitting and stacking the firewood every year..... So many other things that I would rather be doing ... lol. Also lugging that stuff into the house and up the stairs was not something that was super convenient to do. Fourth, we occasionally would bring in some multi-legged wood munching critters that rode in on the wood. Wood eating insects are not really something that I wanted to be introducing to my wood framed house. Fifth, there was always the fun job of disposing of the ash. That always found a way of becoming a mess somewhere along its path down the stairs and out the door. Sixth, and the final problem that caused the stove to be shut down for the last time, was the time we were sitting watching TV and heard a loud "Thump". Walked over to investigate and found the floor littered with hot burning embers. I have no idea what the heck actually happened. I assumed that there was some kind of gas build-up that basically caused some sort of explosion. As near as I could tell, the embers blew out the air intake damper and onto the floor. I could only wonder what would have happened if we had not been home, or if we had been in bed sleeping. That little episode finally did it and the wood burning activity ceased. I do understand that stoves may be built differently these days, there are also alternate fuels (wood pellets, corn, etc.), and we did have a unique arrangement where the stovepipe length was extremely short. But the whole experience (about 5 years worth) just finally forced me to believe that it simply was not worth it. It all drove home the reason for the invention of forced air petro fueled heating systems. I decided that we were not so poor that we had to resort to that method of saving money. Also, if I counted my time for anything at all, I'm not so sure that it really was so cheap anyways. Certainly, if it had burnt the house down, the money saved wouldn't have meant a whole lot.

Just curious ..... does that include extreme canned hunting? Had they not made internet hunting illegal would that had been ok too? I understand that such things could happen and theoretically we are not impacted by them because we choose how we are going to hunt. But there is a universal truth that the sport that we are all a part of is impacted by the acts of others. That's why we get all upset when some hunter shows up in the headlines as doing something incredibly stupid or illegal. Our sport is constantly under scrutiny and judgment from the outside that can eventually move public opinion against us. So, It is good to have an opinion on things beyond simply whether it is legal or not. At least that is the way I see these kinds of discussions. I think it is good that people constantly evaluate and ponder ethics and other right and wrong judgments. I think it is what eventually establishes reasonable rules of conduct and in the long haul makes hunting stronger.

And of course that line of thinking would have everyone using only rifles for hunting deer. Does this concern about not taking advantage of technology mean that we should halt all archery seasons for ethical reasons? The fact is that a lot of hunting is done for the challenge. That's what started bow season in the first place. Some of us do still want to keep that element of challenge in our hunting. Others are content to let some engineer in a cubicle somewhere determine our hunting results. Most of us have found some middle ground between hunting with clubs, and hunting with 500 yard weapons. It's a personal choice, but I also get a bit of an odd feeling about those that would get their harvest at any cost, which seems to be the growing mindset in hunting these days.

Damn .... How do you pin that back-tag on ......Ouch!

Wow. Nice thread Early. Unlike everyone else here, I think it is a great debate to have every so often. I too believe there should be some kind of limits involved. We may not always agree on what those limits should be, but I think it's healthy to bring the subject up once in a while, and thanks for doing that. So, how far are we all willing to go in terms of applying technology to hunting? Remember that old "internet hunting" scheme that they tried to get off the ground? Remember how you would log on to their site and operate the remote camera/gun and collect your critter. Was it wrong to stop that in it's tracks? Is there no limit that we should have? Do the philosophies of fair chase have any part to play in your hunting? Sure it's hard to relate trail cameras to issues of fair chase, but there are other things that come to mind that I find a bit offensive along those lines. Do you people really have no personal limits to what you would call legitimate hunting? Does it bother anyone that your success may be more of a reflection of how well some unknown engineer did his job, than how well you did yours?

Regarding this video, I have to say that I was getting a headache from that damned music. I will never understand why these guys think that blaring rock music has anything to do with hunting. It certainly was annoying. Fasteddie ..... they all do that whispering after the shot routine. I even saw a video where the guy was doing his "interview thing" with his hands on the deer and he was still whispering. It's pretty funny.

I have to admit that I believe that there are some excesses of technology, but I do use trail cams and other forms of technologically advanced weaponry. But I do understand the thoughts that say we are taking hunting farther and farther away from our own hands and skills and making our hunting results more of a reflection of the skills of some engineer in a cubicle some where. I also recognize that there is such a thing as going too far with it all. Where the line is drawn is a personal decision but I do hope it is something that everyone thinks of once in awhile. Otherwise we will have things like the internet hunting that tried to become established a bunch of years ago.

Yet another in a long list of government waste. It all makes you wonder just what kind of tax situation we might have if just a fraction of all this crap were eliminated.