Doc

I generally continue on with my original plans (just stubbornness). I have to say that I have never had any luck at a stand that I have spooked a deer out of. Unfortunately I usually am in a position where there is not enough time to change locations, and I refuse to simply give up and head home (although that would probably be the smarter thing to do ... lol).

It is hard to tell just how big around that tree is, but I believe it is not a rub. Deer usually rub on trees that they can get their antlers around. I frequently see these scratching marks on the bases of some large trees and have come to believe that it is something that squirrels or some other small-game critters do.

This time of year it is almost impossible to keep up with all the activities of putting summer away for the year. When you combine all that with my bow hunting and all the prep work that goes with that, trying to find things to pass the time really is not a problem.

Quite a few years ago, we gave up on the wood heat. We are surrounded by a woods so the fuel was basically free, but there were some things that eventually caused us to discontinue using the stove for heat. First of all, there was a constant fight with creosote. The stove pipe was a very short run to outside, and the drastic change from inside temperature to sub-freezing outside temperatures occurred so fast that the condensation of gases caused a creosote build-up in a very short period of time. So the tear-down, scrubbing and reassembling was a frequent pain-in-the-butt, filthy and time-consuming job. Second, there always seemed to be a film of dust on everything. Almost impossible to stay ahead of. Third there was the obvious work involved in cutting, splitting and stacking the firewood every year..... So many other things that I would rather be doing ... lol. Also lugging that stuff into the house and up the stairs was not something that was super convenient to do. Fourth, we occasionally would bring in some multi-legged wood munching critters that rode in on the wood. Wood eating insects are not really something that I wanted to be introducing to my wood framed house. Fifth, there was always the fun job of disposing of the ash. That always found a way of becoming a mess somewhere along its path down the stairs and out the door. Sixth, and the final problem that caused the stove to be shut down for the last time, was the time we were sitting watching TV and heard a loud "Thump". Walked over to investigate and found the floor littered with hot burning embers. I have no idea what the heck actually happened. I assumed that there was some kind of gas build-up that basically caused some sort of explosion. As near as I could tell, the embers blew out the air intake damper and onto the floor. I could only wonder what would have happened if we had not been home, or if we had been in bed sleeping. That little episode finally did it and the wood burning activity ceased. I do understand that stoves may be built differently these days, there are also alternate fuels (wood pellets, corn, etc.), and we did have a unique arrangement where the stovepipe length was extremely short. But the whole experience (about 5 years worth) just finally forced me to believe that it simply was not worth it. It all drove home the reason for the invention of forced air petro fueled heating systems. I decided that we were not so poor that we had to resort to that method of saving money. Also, if I counted my time for anything at all, I'm not so sure that it really was so cheap anyways. Certainly, if it had burnt the house down, the money saved wouldn't have meant a whole lot.

Just curious ..... does that include extreme canned hunting? Had they not made internet hunting illegal would that had been ok too? I understand that such things could happen and theoretically we are not impacted by them because we choose how we are going to hunt. But there is a universal truth that the sport that we are all a part of is impacted by the acts of others. That's why we get all upset when some hunter shows up in the headlines as doing something incredibly stupid or illegal. Our sport is constantly under scrutiny and judgment from the outside that can eventually move public opinion against us. So, It is good to have an opinion on things beyond simply whether it is legal or not. At least that is the way I see these kinds of discussions. I think it is good that people constantly evaluate and ponder ethics and other right and wrong judgments. I think it is what eventually establishes reasonable rules of conduct and in the long haul makes hunting stronger.

And of course that line of thinking would have everyone using only rifles for hunting deer. Does this concern about not taking advantage of technology mean that we should halt all archery seasons for ethical reasons? The fact is that a lot of hunting is done for the challenge. That's what started bow season in the first place. Some of us do still want to keep that element of challenge in our hunting. Others are content to let some engineer in a cubicle somewhere determine our hunting results. Most of us have found some middle ground between hunting with clubs, and hunting with 500 yard weapons. It's a personal choice, but I also get a bit of an odd feeling about those that would get their harvest at any cost, which seems to be the growing mindset in hunting these days.

Damn .... How do you pin that back-tag on ......Ouch!

Wow. Nice thread Early. Unlike everyone else here, I think it is a great debate to have every so often. I too believe there should be some kind of limits involved. We may not always agree on what those limits should be, but I think it's healthy to bring the subject up once in a while, and thanks for doing that. So, how far are we all willing to go in terms of applying technology to hunting? Remember that old "internet hunting" scheme that they tried to get off the ground? Remember how you would log on to their site and operate the remote camera/gun and collect your critter. Was it wrong to stop that in it's tracks? Is there no limit that we should have? Do the philosophies of fair chase have any part to play in your hunting? Sure it's hard to relate trail cameras to issues of fair chase, but there are other things that come to mind that I find a bit offensive along those lines. Do you people really have no personal limits to what you would call legitimate hunting? Does it bother anyone that your success may be more of a reflection of how well some unknown engineer did his job, than how well you did yours?

Regarding this video, I have to say that I was getting a headache from that damned music. I will never understand why these guys think that blaring rock music has anything to do with hunting. It certainly was annoying. Fasteddie ..... they all do that whispering after the shot routine. I even saw a video where the guy was doing his "interview thing" with his hands on the deer and he was still whispering. It's pretty funny.

I have to admit that I believe that there are some excesses of technology, but I do use trail cams and other forms of technologically advanced weaponry. But I do understand the thoughts that say we are taking hunting farther and farther away from our own hands and skills and making our hunting results more of a reflection of the skills of some engineer in a cubicle some where. I also recognize that there is such a thing as going too far with it all. Where the line is drawn is a personal decision but I do hope it is something that everyone thinks of once in awhile. Otherwise we will have things like the internet hunting that tried to become established a bunch of years ago.

Yet another in a long list of government waste. It all makes you wonder just what kind of tax situation we might have if just a fraction of all this crap were eliminated.

Thanks for the offer. So far the gun is about as perfect weapon as I have ever shot.

Yup! I have been a victim of thievery, so I know exactly how it feels. It's been a year since I lost my Cuddeback, and it still bugs me. And more recently I had one of my "Repeal the Safe Act" signs stolen. I'm not sure why people are like that. Regarding cameras, I still don't understand why they can't encode some password software into the card so that only the owner with the original paperwork could operate them. It seems like a cheap enough thing to do and it should be effective in stemming some of the thefts. I know of several people who have just simply stopped using cameras because of theft losses. That has to be cutting into sales a bit. It seems like the camera industry might have some interest in making this thievery a little less useful for the thieves.

LOL ... "break a sweat" .... I like that.

I suppose the odds are pretty slim that I would be in exactly the spot where their bullets were winding up. But it sure is un-nerving when you hear this going on and you have no idea exactly where they are shooting. The other thing is that this guy had his kid with him. He commented that in a short time he would be taking him out on the youth gun hunt. I was just thinking that this was one of the fathers that is acting as a hunting mentor? That's a bit scary too. The prime safety rule that the kid had just learned in his recent hunter safety training course of being sure of what is in the line of fire and beyond, was being shot down by his own father.

I have to admit that waiting for a deer with that little trickle of sweat running down your spine is not exactly the kind of hunting that I grew up with. Actually, it is downright disgusting.....lol. I did have the old mosquito thing going too. I was kind of wondering about this extra early start and had some misgivings about it. I know that in bowhunting not every shot ends with the picture perfect blood-trailing results. I have had a couple of gut shot deer where I decided that the prudent thing was to wait overnight rather than pushing them into an endless cat-and-mouse chase into the next township. But those occasions happened in sub-freezing weather and there was no sense of urgency. I just hope that one of those unfortunate hits doesn't occur while we are in this stretch of 80's. Being a state land hunter, the other thing that I have found out is that this weather has bumped up the activity levels of non deer hunting use. The bikers and hikers and now the target shooters has spiked. That is no fun to have someone set up a practice range right next to you and empty out box after box of ammo. As far as the deer moving, I don't think there is anyone arguing about that. I see lots of daylight movement on my cameras, but I don't think that is what the complaints are that I am reading here.

Well, I have had a pretty good run of luck hunting on state land over the years, but yesterday was a bit different. In the past I have encountered all kinds of interference .... bikers hikers, small game hunters, but I have learned where I had to go to avoid those kinds of problems. Well this year, the apples have drawn the deer down into the valley bottom, and the hilltop where I can go to get away from interference is quite empty of deer. So my scouting this year has turned up a bumper crop of apples and the trails are just crazy down in the thickets of the valley bottom. So I located a few of my old stands in the area and was hoping to score there this year. I got all hunkered in and started waiting when I heard some voices not far away. That wasn't a complete surprise because over there is main access trail. I figured that shouldn't be a problem because it was still early in the afternoon. So pretty soon a gun shot goes off. My gosh it seemed like it was right next to me. And then all hell broke loose. Shot after shot. So I packed up (no real point to trying to hunt there) and went out to see what the hell was going on. So there I see two people all set up in a mowed clearing for target practice. Well, that's not nice but is one of the things you have to occasionally put up with when dealing with state land. What did bother me was the set-up. These guys had a box with a few plastic bottles on top located in front of a very thick stretch of brush. This area is the valley bottom and is dead flat where all this was going on, so there is nothing that could be considered a backstop other than the thicket that you cant see more than a few feet into. The fact is that it was just such a thicket that I was standing in for my afternoon hunt. The good news is that I was in an area that was about 45 degrees from their line of fire. The bad news is that I have several places that I hunt that are very close to their line of fire and I could have been sitting in one of them. The other bad news is that there is an access route that has been mowed by the state that goes in kind of a semicircle around this patch of brush that is frequently used by hunters and hikers when heading up the hill. I guess I now have to consider this whole valley bottom area to be unsafe for hunting and am now forced to walk away from the area with all the sign and food attractions. That's is indeed unfortunate and probably doesn't bode well for what I expected to be a good bowhunting year. But the real bothersome thing is the way some people approach gun safety when picking out a place to shoot their guns. Had they gone another few hundred yards, they could have been shooting into the hill or the sides of one of the many ravines coming down the hill. Instead, they chose to ignore one of the fundamental rules of gun safety and picked an un-backstopped area, and shooting into an area that had no visibility to anything farther in than a dozen feet or so. The whole thing was a bit scary.

Well, just a short follow-up thread. So now that we had the thread about what not to forget, how many of you still forgot something today? What was it?

Hack and wrap immediately, or take a trip to the processor. No hanging of deer in near 80 degree temps.

I don't really have a problem with hot weather. I simply take my shirt off. Of course it does hurt like hell when I pin that backtag on.

Sounds like somebody is polishing up their manifesto ... lol.

Ah yes, a word from our resident anarchist ..... lol.

Yeah I guess that comment has completely flown over my head, so I may need a little more clarification. What exactly are you trying to say there with your "bit of advice"?

Hell, I'll go you one better ... I remember when there was no such thing as "high fences" at all. I can even remember when deer were for actual real hunting and not used as some kind of ag enterprise to satisfy those who need to have a harvest and don't care how they get it. I can remember when we didn't grow our prey, feed our prey or genetically manufacture our trophies to satisfy today's need for instant gratification with no expenditure of effort. But you're right, that's all changed. I can't argue the changes that are blatantly obvious. I can only lament that some of today's hunters will never know that hunting really is a skill. They may never understand or appreciate the idea of challenge. They may continue to despise the idea of woodslore in hunting and actually expending some effort to locate and harvest a deer. They may be ever increasingly disdainful of finding their own deer and out-witting them in their own environment. These time honored features of hunting may continue to fade, but don't be expecting me to be welcoming that pollution of the sport that I have spent my life involved with. No, there is nothing that will reverse or slow this idea of techno-worship in hunting. And I do understand that there are those that have no use for heritage and tradition in their hunting, and yes it is sad. But, I can be satisfied with the fact that I have never had a hand in making new hunters believe that wild game is something you raise like goats. And I have never made a cent promoting that distorted view of a magnificent animal as merely being a lab experiment for profit. But I have seen an awful lot of people that can justify anything based solely on the profit motive. And of all the changes, that is the one that is growing the fastest.

I have never been all that excited about this October 1 start, so my hunting for the next two weeks will be very casual and definitely will be selective on the weather. Temperature will be a big thing with me. So, I really can't say for sure when the first day out will be. The weatherman will be deciding that for me.