Doc

So can I assume from that that you are advocating a government of anarchy? Enough whining and complaining, I am interested in hearing what you propose to replace the current system with. Government by single-point decree? No government at all? Everybody just do their own thing? According to your most recent thread, you want to replace this government system. I'm simply asking .... "replace it with what?" Oh and by the way, exactly who are we appointing to dictate this new government? Who do you trust to do that?

Not to down-play the ridiculous amounts of ridiculous anti-gun proposals, I do have to point out that not all of that list are things that we necessarily disagree with. In fact some are downright pro-gun. A few of the examples that I spotted are as follows: ------------------------------------------------------ The US should not adopt any treaty that poses a threat to national sovereignty or abridges any rights guaranteed by the US Constitution, such as the right to keep and bear arms, and to withhold funding from the United Nations unless the President certifies that the United Nations has not taken action to restrict, attempt to restrict, or otherwise adversely infringe upon the rights of individuals in the US to keep and bear arms, or abridge any of the other constitutionally protected rights of US citizens. (2 bills) expressing concerns about the US becoming a signatory to the United Nations Arms Trade Treaty, or to any similar agreement on the arms trade. (2 similar bills) A bill to provide that any executive action infringing on the Second Amendment has no force or effect, and to prohibit the use of funds for certain purposes. To provide that any executive action infringing on the Second Amendment has no force or effect, and to prohibit the use of funds for certain purposes. To enhance the safety of America's schools. To make supplemental appropriations for the Cops in Schools program for fiscal year 2013. expressing that active duty military personnel who are stationed or residing in the District of Columbia should be permitted to exercise fully their rights under the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. To prohibit the Department of Justice from tracking and cataloguing the purchases of multiple rifles and shotguns. To establish the Wildlife and Hunting Heritage Conservation Council Advisory Committee to advise the Secretaries of the Interior and Agriculture on wildlife and habitat conservation, hunting, recreational shooting. to protect and enhance opportunities for recreational hunting, fishing, and shooting. to facilitate the establishment of additional or expanded public target ranges in certain States. --------------------------------------------------------- There are others. There are also quite a few that are things that we may or may not agree with. Sure enough, the ones that are blatantly anti-gun are way too many in number, but the list isn't quite as long as first impressions would lead you to believe.

And that is what confuses me. You call ordinary citizen participation and activism, "playing a game". And I have to wonder if you are against legal and political action against these gun laws because that is "their game", what exactly are you advocating in its place? I think you have repeatedly indicated a desire to revolt, but the last several replies you seem to be backing away from that a bit. So, exactly what are you now advocating?

I will be spending at least a few days sitting by the front window of our house with the rifle. Every year I come down off the hill and have to listen to, "Gee you should have been here this afternoon. A whole herd of deer came out and ate another shrub". Well, this year I am going into a defend-your-landscape mode and start knocking off a few of those shrub munching critters. Yeah, it hardly can be called hunting, but it probably is worth a day or two of the season just to start getting control of the local herd.

Most likely the objective wasn't to have sport. I suspect they were trying to exterminate or severely deplete the hog population. In fact I don't understand why they bothered with the crossbow and especially the compound. I didn't see the program, but I hope they weren't trying to portray that as some kind of sport-hunting activity. I do understand the frustration of Texas ranchers. And I can understand the use of all means of getting rid of those things. By the way, it is pretty darn hard to feel sorry for a pig, but I do wonder how many of them get wounded and simply crawl off somewhere to a slow death. Wouldn't you think that with all the vibration and motion of a chopper, even a good marksman with a good rifle, would be hard-pressed to draw a steady aim on anything? I don't know I never tried it myself.

That's funny, but of course the guy was taking out his frustration on the wrong person. She didn't concoct the assessment or the tax rate. She probably didn't even have any say in the origin of the budget. Also, I'll bet he didn't get his receipt until she finished counting every last dollar..... while he sat there cooling his heels....lol.

As I suspected, you are not even reading my replies. So really I don't even know why I am wasting my time. But if you think that what I have been advocating is begging with hat in hand, the only thing I can suggest is a remedial reading class, or simply read what I have said. And I would suggest that if you have no faith in the legal system of routes to reform, then some how you are in the wrong country. We are a society of laws and legal activities and that principle is one of the foundational underpinnings of this country and always has been so.

I would say he is 3 years, 4 months and 2-1/2 days old. Just judging by the way he holds his ears. That up-lifted rear leg is a dead give-a-way ..... lol.

You want to see broadhead design at it's ugliest? ...... check out the "Toxic" at http://flyingarrowarcheryusa.com/ This is about the stupidest design that I have seen in years and once again proves that you can sell just about anything to fishermen and bowhunters....lol.

I just drove 5 deer out of the flowers in the front yard, and I had all kinds of different reactions. I just barely got the front door open and one of them took off like a ruptured duck. So next I started yelling at them and another two begrudgingly walked out of the yard. The last two stood there looking at me and finally one of them started scratching its face with a rear hoof like I wasn't even there, even though I was continuing to yell at them the other one just continued to look at me. Finally I stepped out onto the front step and waved my arms and gave them one last yell, and they trotted out of the yard looking pretty irritated that I had interrupted their intended feast. In the center of the flower bed is a pear tree. So we might add to scent, sound and sight a fourth one of "persistent nagging" to the list of things that can eventually get deer moving .... lol.

I would say that the wild apple crop is doing just fine this year: Judging from these torn up areas under the trees, I would say that the deer are eating everyone that drops. This thicket is criss-crossed by all kinds of trails like this. Lots of opportunities for ambush sites.

I'm hopeful that I have good luck with my new Covert. I have not had the best of luck with any of my cameras and currently have a Moultrie, Primos and one of my Bushnells totally or partially screwed up within their third year. I also have a $50 Tasco that takes real crappy pictures, but is still cranking after two years. The best camera that I ever had in terms of quality pictures is the White-flash Cuddeback that got stolen. That one was into its 2nd year, but I will never know how long it might have lasted. I am on the verge of discontinuing my trail cam activities because of the poor quality of camera designs.

I kind of like the Stingers also. But I have to say that as long as you can get any broadhead to fly well, they all will do the job. There may be one notable exception to that. I recently saw an ad for some wacky-looking new broadhead that is designed to cut a plug of meat out of the deer. It kind of puts me in mind of the old Browning Serpentine head. That likely is a disaster. But any head that stays with the traditional principles of broadhead design, will do the job as long as the archer does theirs.

I too got screwed by gerrymandering. However I am hoping that we are able to give that one new guy a career change in his next election attempt. However, I see this as a positive thing because now I am in a position to work against the re-election of at least one of the bastards that voted for the law. Notice I said "work against" and not just "vote against". I intend to take a much more active position in the election that he is involved in. The Katrina incidents were indeed illegal acts by police. They were operating without the rule of law on their side. That is an entirely different scenario than fighting unjust laws, which is what this thread is about. As far as the police being issued adequate equipment to do a dangerous job, that too is another discussion for another topic. The examples of civil disobedience that you listed were effective, but did not involve felonies. Most protesters were held overnight and then released. The marches and protests and the people involved in them had little to fear from the law. It was certain elements of the population that posed the real dangers. So, for those us that want to march on Albany and protest, I am all for that. The exact tactics that were used for the civil rights law changes are things that I endorse as well. But none of that involves felonious activity that is guaranteed to escalate into areas that none of even wants to think of. And like you, I also agree that none of this has risen to the level of revolution.

Is that the most intelligent thing you can add to the discussion? ..... some make-believe conversation? Kind of fits in with the rest of your fantasy view of the world .... lol.

I don't think we are really disagreeing on all that much. Frankly, I have a pump shotgun that serves as home protection, and so I really don't have to even consider risking the felony conviction. I'm sure you understand the hazards of that path and how your life could be permanently impacted. So I'm not going to go over all that again. But I do appreciate the responsible activities that you listed in terms of political activism. That is absolutely something that we must do.

The point you are ignoring is that you do not have to have a majority to influence elections. How do you think we have had as many Republican governors as we have had? All you really need is dedication to an issue by all members of a particular segment of the population. You have to remember that the population is split among many different ideologies, and alliances to many different candidates and issues. The majority is made impotent simply by the fact that they are diverse, disorganized and not unified by any one issue. However, I have seen a unity among gun owners that I have never seen before. The rallies, the demonstrations, the huge letter writing campaigns, the anti-safe Act discussions on radio and TV, Even these SCOPE signs demanding the repeal of the Safe Act are starting to pop up all over the place. We are that unified and passionate minority that could be channeled into voting as that single unit that the rest of the voters can not match. If we were not so involved in trying to convince ourselves that simply breaking the law will solve everything, perhaps we could be working on making this unified power work as it should. Hopefully we have the right advocacy groups empowered and ready to work on voter registration and motivating gun owners to vote against those that signed that Safe Act. Hey, I'll admit it's a long shot. just looking at how difficult it is to get hunters united on anything here on this forum has certainly pointed up the horrendous odds against getting gun owners to act as a unit. But like I said, we currently have an unparalleled unity in outrage. It sure seems like there is something that could be done with it. It's an opportunity that we really can't afford to screw up. In reality, it is not even necessary to toss all those characters out. All we have to do is make a dent that is significant enough to drive home the point that anti-gun issues can cost some politicians their jobs. That is a message that we have not sent to our legislators in a long, long time.

It is amazing how we are now being compared to Nazi Germany. My gosh we do have a flair for the dramatic ..... lol. It is sad that so many have decided to give up on this country. Sure there is a long list of wrongs that we should be working to right. But it appears that no one has the will to fight the system, with the system. The first thing that comes to mind these days is to simply throw out the baby with the bathwater and worry about the consequences later. Sometimes it does make you wonder if people are really intelligent enough to govern themselves or if they even have the will to do so. But even with some of the crazy things I have read on this thread, I still have faith that there are enough people still left that believe in our system of governance to take on the problems and attack them in sane, effective and responsible ways, in spite of those that would trash the country.

And what, in your mind, is the proper response to that law? I'm not defending the Safe Act, but I am wondering about some of the ways that some people on here think they should fight it. So I say the thing that ought to be "thought about" is how effective and responsible is committing a felony as a response. What exactly are you expecting that to accomplish other than time behind bars and permanent record, and the loss of all your firearms? How has that helped remove the Safe Act? I'll tell you that such actions not only don't change the law, but they help entrench the attitudes that put that law there, as well as create new allies for anti-gun thinking in the general public. Is it really so hard to understand that the responsible reaction to the Safe Act is to fight it in the courts and to fight the politicians who come up with these laws and to strengthen the organizations that lobby against such laws? Is it really difficult to understand that illegal reactions only reinforce the positions of these anti gun people and draw more allies to their side? That is all I'm saying is to look at the bigger picture and understand that there are legal things that we haven't even yet had a chance to try out or complete. And the more people that seem to find comfort in this idea of simply breaking the law as their way of fighting it make those more useful solutions far more difficult to accomplish.

You obviously have not read or understood most of the replies on this thread or the other anti-government thread, or you wouldn't make such a dumb statement. There are no assumptions and there is nothing that I have referred to in my replies that has not clearly been spelled out in these threads. So do a little reading of these threads so that you really know what the heck you are talking about. Regarding your "holier-than-thou" crack, I will tell you that there does come a time when people have to pull their heads out of that dark and unsanitary place and face the facts that just ranting about breaking laws and other kinds of imagined tough-guy scenarios doesn't get the job done. Such idle ranting is simply an excuse to do nothing. If pointing that fact out is considered "holier-than-thou", so be it. I get so tired of people running away from responsible citizen activism and retreating into a world of fantasy instead. Get over it people. There is work to be done and we don't really have time for this Rambo fantasizing. Now if there is some way that anyone thinks that is holier-than-thou b.s., give your head a shake and snap out of it. We really need gun owners who actually understand what really has to be done and who have a willingness to actually do it. And none of that has anything to do with felonious activity.

Ha-ha .... the housing bubble hasn't burst, but it sure does have a serious leak. It's a correction that was due many years ago. A lot of people fattened up their bank accounts by periodically trading up in housing. But like a pyramid scheme, there are a bunch of people left holding the bag right now. But back to the subject of taxation, the problem is that school taxation is like a ratchet. It has only one way that it can go ..... up. Taxation doesn't seem to react to a housing market slumps, only housing market booms. Assessments seldom seem to go down when the market is depressed. And in the rare cases where they do, the rates increase to compensate.You still have a bloated number of projects that taxpayers are demanding, along with a bloated number of school employees all needing a bloated pay check and bloated benefits to accomplish a bloated wish list presented by the taxpayers (residents). Actually when you think about it taxation is simply established on the demands of the residents. They want more and better services and by golly, somebody has to pay for them. Those who want less school taxes are going to have to cut back on all the unnecessary goodies that are being thrown all over our children (that ain't going to happen). The fastest way to crank taxes up is to invoke the "it's for the children" card. Anyone doubt that? Just follow the process that happens after a school budget is voted down. The austerity budget gets trotted out (which generally is still higher that the previous years) and in it are cuts in athletic programs. Oh damn! All hell breaks loose, and the on the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th vote the parents can't vote that budget back in fast enough. It works every time. I know this is getting a bit long, but I have to mention the changes in our school situation. I still live in the same district where I went to school. That gives me a rather unique perspective on how things have changed over a lot of years. Graduating class sizes have really not changed all that much, perhaps an additional 10%, if that. And yet over the years, they added a separate rather large elementary school, complete with an entire administration system. Twice the square footage, twice the administration expenses. The original school building has doubled in size, so now we are up to 4 times the square footage (and another addition this year). Now remember ...... still almost the same number of students. Today we have a double run of school busses. That is, an additional late bus to take care of those that have after-school activities. Needless to say that requires more frequent replacement of buses along with additional maintenance and drivers and fuel. And on and on it all goes. It's not just simple inflation, it is forced inflation through reckless demands by the taxpayers. And then the frosting on the cake is that the level of actual education is such that graduates are practically illiterate. Anyway, that is the view from someone who has been there to watch how taxes have gone nuts in one school district.

Damn right something has to change. That's not the discussion. The points of contention are related to HOW we are going to change them. Some are willing to work within the system, others want to tear down the system and cross their fingers that whatever takes its place will somehow be better ...... think about that. The fact is that people do have to get involved in our government and not simply satisfy themselves with a bunch of fantasizing. A few replies ago I apparently wasted my time listing some rather simple things that the average citizen can do to make a difference. None of that was saying that we simply accept things as they are. I am just saying that people need to accept the responsibilities of citizenship and accept their role as a part of this government. Political activism is not a dirty phrase. It is the expected role of each of us. And by the way, none of this activity was anything that Mr VJP was talking about.

I'm really not going to deal in "what-ifs". I am looking at the world as it exists without letting my imagination get me off into a land of fiction. I hear all this whining (sorry about using that term) about how bad we have got it and how we have joined the ranks of the oppressed, and all I hear being offered as a solution is a bunch of Rambo talk. It appears that if things were as dire as is being painted by those like Early, we should already have taken up arms and joined the nearest militia ... lol. But no, the fact is that just like the rest of us he is contentedly heading out to work everyday, going about his business conducting life in a very contended fashion, just like we have always done since the inception of this country. So, tell me people, just what are you proposing as a solution to all this horrible inhuman oppression? Are you all packing to head off to whatever country you picture now as utopia? By the way where is that? Are you planning to organize and tear down this oppressive government and then worry about what you are going to replace it with later? Any of you have any idea just what this new government will look like? How will it differ from what we already have? Or have you even thought past your Rambo fantasies as to what might be implemented if this government came down? You have absolutely no ideas of what to replace it with, or you would be doing at least the bare minimums to change the system by using the system. I realize that isn't as flashy as all the "movie script" revolutionary talk, but that is what's required for real change. It is activity that may actually take some real effort .... certainly more than just idly sitting around complaining about how bad things are and how we are going to take up arms against our country. By the way, there are a few Arab countries that might offer to help you out in that effort. So, seriously, what is your vision of how we should proceed? Really, I would like to hear it. This question is open to anyone that thinks they have the answer to all the supposed inhumane oppression that we are forced to live under. Try to keep the discussion out of the realm of fantasy and imagination and thoughts of conjured up pretend scenarios that will "maybe" happen. Given the world as it is today, what are your solutions? Armed open rebellion? Murder all the politicians? Move to another country? Maybe just tear down the country and leave it available for whoever wants to take it over? The Islam nations have some ideas to help you along with the re-forming of America. Or maybe you would like a little more of a free-form type of government. Maybe a society of anarchy .... you know kind of a "Mad Max" scenario.....lol. Since so many have given up on even trying to use the systems of reform that are already in place, what realistically is your next move?

Actually this is a story of an event that happened on a hunt for the biggest member of the deer family ...... a moose. Back in the mid 80’s, 4 of us from work planned a moose hunt in Ontario, Canada. We drove way north past Sudbury to an outfitter’s camp in Shining Tree. In order to get farther in, we drove about another 40 miles on dirt road, parked at a lake put our canoes into the lake, went to the end of that lake, portaged for about 150 yards to another lake and went to the end of that lake. That put us much deeper into the Canadian bush than any of us had ever experienced. There were absolutely no humans other than ourselves and no signs that humans had ever been there. We carved out a campsite along the lake edge and set up the tents. The isolation was complete. Not even the sound of airplanes. So now a bit of a flashback to before trip. I had a dog that enjoyed a good game of tug-of-war with an old towel. While playing at this, she would always make loud, gosh-awful snarling and growling noises. The sounds actually were like some huge crazed animal of some sort. Well, that’s when I got the idea. I had a small portable tape recorder/player, and I made a special tape that had about 15 minutes of total silence in the beginning and then this real loud growling and snarling noises from my dog playing tug-of-war. I packed this in my sleeping bag. Now back to the hunt: On the first night we were all sitting around the campfire talking about the next morning’s hunt when I pretended that I was heading off to take a leak. I went out and planted the tape player and turned it on. Then I came back to the campfire and resumed all the yak-yak B.S. that was going on. The empty 15 minute leader of silence played, and time went by so everyone had forgotten that I had even gone out there. All of a sudden, there was this hideous loud sound of growling and snarling from some unknown beast out in the darkness. Immediately, there was instant chaos as everyone dove for their bows, knives, and anything that could be used as a weapon. Meanwhile this vicious animal continued the aggressive sounds of a crazed maniacal animal ready to attack. It was obvious that this creature was not going away so naturally, I hammed it up and bravely volunteered to head out to see what it was. So brandishing only my bow and a flashlight, I headed out. The other guys decided to go with me. Off we went stalking this “thing”, all armed to the teeth with me out in the lead. When I finally got to the tape player, I set down my bow and dove onto it, wrestling around on the ground in the dark with this tape player. Finally, holding it up in the air I victoriously claimed, “I got it”. When everybody saw what I had, it took a few seconds for it all to register, and then they finally realized that they had been had. There was some talk about throwing me in the lake, but eventually we all settled down back at the fire. Those guys still remember that trick, and we all have a pretty good laugh every time we think back to that moose hunt.

First of all the whole scenario is flawed because they would have to eliminate the 2nd amendment first, and that is simply not going to happen. But let me give you an idea of where I draw the line. Any law that has been passed and survives the test of constitutionality and all court tests by the judicial branch (yes, we have courts to deal with that sort of thing), is a legitimate law that should be abided by the citizens. Further, I expect the police to do the job they are paid to do without throwing their personal opinions and biases into it. They too are charged with upholding the laws of the land and the dictates of the Constitution. They have no business interpreting anything. That is the role of the judicial branch. My God people do you believe in this country or not? I mean our system of government is what I believe in. Do you all want to trash it? This discussion is beginning to sound like some banana republic or third world country that has their annual uprising and stays forever in a state of internal revolution. Is that what you are all looking for? Hey leave me out of that nonsense. Like I said, I believe in this country and it's system of checks and balances, and it seems to work a lot better than anything the internal terrorists and militias might come up with. I am seriously wondering why I would even have to say that.