Doc

I remember a few years back when the harvest was a bit low and everybody and his brother had some kind of theory as to why the take was down. One guy said it was because the acorn crop in his area was too heavy, and deer were dispersed throughout the oak hillsides. Another guy said it was because in his area the acorn crop was too light and all the deer had moved out of traditional oak pockets. Others were claiming that the phase of the moon on opening day screwed that traditionally "most successfull" day up. Then there were the ones that blamed the coyotes, and the weather, and the temperatures, and the lack of snow, and the previous winter severity, and excessive issuance of permits, and excessive posting of property, and on and on and on. I'm probably forgetting a bunch of them also.....lol. Even the DEC gets involved in this guessing game. There never is any shortage of excuses and reasons. Maybe some of them are right, maybe none of them are right ..... who knows? But we keep on guessing.

Is it possible that maybe she was injured or wounded? I once shot a doe at about 10 feet that refused to get up. Examining the deer afterward, I found a slug-hole just above the rear hoof. Apparently that leg had stiffened up and she decided that she couldn't or wouldn't get up and run away.

Thanks for the reply. That's kind of what I figured, but wasn't sure. I sort of reasoned that if they were not allowed to investigate violations on private property, property owners would be given a free pass to break any laws that they wanted. I have heard of enough tickets written on private land to know that can't be the case. Lol.... so any property owners that are counting on law enforcement not being able to enter your land ...... better clean up your act .... ha-ha.

I understand what you are saying, but I think there is probably a huge difference between breaking in the doors on a residence vs. walking onto private woodlots to invetigate a reported violation. At any rate, I think that neither of us is in law enforcement of any part of judicial law, so actually neither of us knows one way or the other for sure. Maybe some member here is in law enforcement and can shed some light on all that.

I could have done that this afternoon. It would have been about a 45 yard shot. However, I am now at the point where I have all the venison that the two of us need. Later on in the week I may try to fill a permit just because I am ready to get back out again. My Mother could use the venison. But anyway, your comment about the legality of shooting from the house is right on. Maybe if I had the shotgun handy, I would have done it today. I used to feel a bit bad about shooting semi-tame deer that we have been watching feeding in the front yard. But after a few of my pine trees were killed and I lost a few fruit trees, that isn't a problem anymore ... lol.

How many hunters were involved in those kills?

During gun season, opening Saturday and the first Sunday I am in my stand prior to sunrise and I come out some time late in the afternoon depending on hunter pressure. For me that is amazing stamina. This opening day was cut short by a kill within a couple of hours after sunrise. After the first two weekend days, each day is a still-hunting day because the deer have been driven into their super-security mode and have no intentions of moving in the daylight. Lately when the first weekend is over, hunter pressure drops to zero or very near it and there is no way that a deer is coming to me. So I get into the mode of "I go to the deer" (still-hunting). That often becomes my most productive means of hunting. Bow season it is a case of two or more hours in the morning and two or more hours at the end of the day. I have never been an all-day stander. I'm not into pain, anguish and paralyzing boredom. Hunting is not my career, and I try to give it the priority that I think it deserves by hunting the 4 hottest hours of the day. Lol... there's no apology in that statement, it's just the way I approach what is supposed to be recreation. I suspect that I have never really missed any opportunities during those mid-day hours because I am sure that the snoring would drive any approaching deer away before it ever got to me.

Well, maybe the thread is a bit unexplainable, goofy and perhaps a bit over-blown, but I do like the title and I think a new word has been born ....... "kwitcherbitchun". That word might be a good reply on a lot of posts ..... .

By the way, I have a trail cam down by the garden that I can see from the livingroom window. About a half hour ago, I saw two does down getting their pictures taken in broad daylight while they were munching on grass. I think I might have it right that hunting pressure has been so light that deer are returning to their pre-season daylight patterns and feeding activities. If you also have noticed the light hunting activity as I have in our locality, this might be a good time to employ a few of the bow season tactics from earlier in the year. It's also interesting to note that the temps are still well into the 40's right now. So this activity is not exactly related to any kind of cold-snap. So maybe if the hunters are not going to supply enough pressure to put the deer on their feet, perhaps the ridiculous lack of hunting pressure may coax deer back into their daytime patterns.

Here's a tip specific to those that are using a bow. I would imagine that we might be getting into some colder weather that we never experienced during the early bow season. That colder weather will require new additional layers of clothing that we may not have had on during previous practice sessions. Do some practice using whatever cold-weather gear that you may be using on the hunt. You don't want any "interference" or "shooting form" surprises when the deer is in front of you. Tip #2 kind of goes without saying and relates to the above suggestion, but for most, it has been a while since the last practice session. Check things out and don't assume that early season practice sessions are still holding proper shooting form and techniques.

I don't believe that any law enforcement officer (including DEC law enforcement) has to abide by trespass laws while investigating anything they want to investigate. They can and are expected to investigate any and all complaints. That's what the 1-800-TIPP-DEC phone line that they have been pushing every year for decades is all about. As they put it on page 63 of the game syllabus that phone number is to be used to "report poaching, trespassing, baiting or other wildlife violations". Note that they have specifically listed baiting. I'm not sure, but I believe that system utilizes anonymous reporting.

Call the DEC with the details and let them take care of the baiting situation.E-mail them some pictures so they know you have a rel problem going on there.

What has to happen is for deer to knock off this nocturnal thing they have going on. At least in this area that is the case. And maybe with this lack of hunters out there, that just might happen.

This may be the year where the hunting pressure has been so sparce that the deer just might begin reverting to unhunted patterns. It sure has been quiet out there. Yes, there's hope yet!

Careful about the over-generalization of using that term "everyone". And speaking of "sensitive whining and crying", isn't that what this whole topic is all about?

I have seen a lot of days when it would have been darned nice to have one of those. What the heck, it is just a more exotic treestand. I don't think anyone in one of these sophisticated treestands has any less of a fairchase hunt than someone in a conventional treestand. So on what basis would you make these illegal that wouldn't also apply to any standard treestand? With my luck, I would erect one of these and a deer would never come anywhere near there again. The fact is that standard treestands blend in far better and take better advantage of the surprise, hidden elevated position than one of these barn-on-stilts stands. So what's the problem?

Right there is the point where I get a bit confused. Exactly how is this "baseline" established? When did they actually go out and do a count to establish a firm "baseline". Of course we all know that they never did. So for me it isn't so much about what they do with their statistics afterward, but more about just how accurate this super-critical starting point (or baseline) is. Yes, if you have a firm starting point, you can apply statistical methods involving harvests, and maybe even throw in a few educated "guesstimates" about non-hunting mortality (although that by itself has to be straying a bit from reality), and eventually come up with a current population estimate and a few factors for accurately setting permit quotas, etc. However, if that baseline is flawed, any calculations or statistics that you apply to it will be as well. Further, the more consecutive years that you keep building on to this flawed baseline, the farther away from reality you get because of statistical creep. I would go along with statistical models and such (since that is the only practical way of doing business) if only that "baseline" thing could be explained to me. The accuracy of that vital building block is essential to any hoped-for statistical manipulations accuracy. Otherwise, I really can't understand why any of it has any credibility. Also, I believe it is a recognized fact that there never is any periodic on-the-ground verification to ensure that statistical activities are not building on and extending prior errors (statistical creep). So if someone can fill me in on how they keep this "baseline" accurate, I too will become one of the believers. Perhaps you might want to ask your math professor about that.....lol.

I'll bet NYS isn't too far behind them in doing the same thing. In fact I read somewhere of a discussion here about that very change. I believe it was associated with a DEC comment of some sort. I think I would be in favor of it. These guys don't seem to be able to control their critters very well, and as far as I have heard, 100% of the hogs introduced into NYS came from local wild boar farms and hunting preserves. I am getting a bit tired of reading everyday of some kind of introduction of invasive species into the wild. And nobody is getting dinged for it. Time to take a hard-line approach.

My cameras all came with straps. They seem to work pretty good, so that's what I use.

I'll have to see if I can talk my wife into doing that. Save a lot of wear and tear on the ATV ..... No, on second thought, I think I won't even try that one!

It is always interesting how many excuses we can all come up with when trying to figure out why we are not seeing deer. I think I have heard them all from moon phase on opening day to unusual weather, and I think most of them may have a touch of validity at any given time. I am not going to try to tell you or anyone else anything about any particular assessments of deer populations in an area where I have never hunted or in some cases never even traveled through. However, we have just concluded a thread that was almost 100% in agreement that hunter activity has been on a significant down-slide which is exactly what I have noted in our area, and is also what my response in this thread was about. Now even with that said, I am not trying to say that that is the case in every township in every WMU of the state. But there seems to be growing evidence from what I am hearing here on this site that more and more people are coming to the same conclusion that generally hunter participation is dropping faster than our numbers. I am simply saying that that lack of participation is at least partly responsible for lack of deer movement. Right now we are in a situation where we have just enough hunter activity to put the deer nocturnal and into their super-survival tactics, but not enough to kick them out of their sanctuaries. To me that sounds like a reasonable assumption based on observation. If that is not the case in your particular area then you will have to make your own conclusions based on situations where you hunt.

I don't think I would be afraid of using a realtor if you can find one with adequate experience. They specialize in all things regarding real estate, and a local realtor should have adequate experience in valuating recreation properties. The best thing to do is to determine what price you think you have to get for it Minimum. If a realtor doesn't come close enough to that price, move on to the next one. If you can't find a realtor that can value the property at something you can live with, you might have to come up with an alternate plan. I would think the lack of power will be the biggest detractor from value. Is the fact that there is no power because it physically can't be put in there, or is the cost of doing so prohibitive, or is it just that no one ever got around to doing it?

Not me!!! I would just as soon these mountain lion reports stay in the category of "BS". I don't want them added to my already over-active imagination as I walk in the dark to or from my stand ..... lol.

I kind of wonder if most guys even know how bad a shape they are in. A good long drag can tax people way beyond anything they may have ever imagined. I see a lot of hunters in the woods, and a bunch of them really look more like sumo wrestlers than marathon runners .... lol. I think Clint Eastwood put it best with his movie line .... "a man's gotta know his limitations". By the way, the main use of my ATV is plowing my 1000' driveway through the winter. That keeps me from dropping over shoveling snow......lol. I suppose a few trips up the hill over the hunting season to help get a deer out probably is also a good use of that critter too.

A few words from a "good hunter" ...... lol. Some of us have actually learned a few things about deer escape routes and actually do understand the correlation between deer movement and hunter patterns. Also some of us do understand that when deer go into that super survival mode after opening day, a little pressure from hunters is a good thing.