Doc

I wonder if the gun season has any effect on the daytime movements and responses to calls?

Ha-ha..... everything is fine in its proper place. Wow that's a surprise! They actually singled out paint-ball activities. Well from my standpoint that is some great news.

So are you guys still getting any buck pictures since the season opened? It sure would be nice to see a few bruisers still around at this late part of the season. That would make things pretty exciting for next year. You guys haven't taken down the cameras yet have you? I brought in one but still have two out there snooping on the critters. But activity has gone way down. And that includes nocturnal pictures as well.

Thinking back to all the conversations here about the necessity of keeping deer populations low for a healthy herd, it started me thinking that I have never seen a starving deer since the big deer yard at the south end of Honeoye lake back in the 80's. Now that was an extreme case where the herd was allowed to expand way beyond any sense of reasonableness. But I was thinking that since that time, the herd level has occasionally been fairly high and yet all the deer that I have gotten have been quite fat and healthy. Also, I have yet to locally see a browse-line in recent years (other than the ornamental trees in my yard ..... lol), or any other sign that the population is stressed by high numbers. These observations from a WMU that has traditionally been one of the highest producing units (per square mile) in the state (8N). I have to admit that I only get to see a very tiny part of the state and I often wonder about other parts of the state. So when there is talk about the necessity of continually increasing doe harvests it makes me wonder if the DEC really is excessively bending over for the anti-deer interests (see the composition of the CFTs) as opposed to worrying about the actual carrying capacity of the habitat. I know it's a delicate balance, but I am always curious to try to figure out when the anti-deer financial interests are being over-satisfied at the expense of the hunter. Oh-oh .... I'm wandering a bit. So anyway, finally the question...... Have any of you recently (within the past 2 decades) ever found evidence of over-browsing, deer starvation, or poor deer physical condition due to over-population. What's it really like out there around the state. I'm not making any kind of judgement as to whether such over-populated situations exist, I am simply curious as to whether anyone here has ever observed them (and where).

Has anybody seen any official DEC definition of a "building" as regards the 500' law? After all these blinds can be occupied, and the reason for the 500' proximity law is to protect individuals that are inside of "buildings". I mean an arrest based on one of these blinds would be an incredible act of "pickyness" but then I have heard of some CO's that might take advantage of just such a ridiculous notion....lol. Good grief could that law apply to old outhouses, or some of those half destroyed old barns you see falling down in the middle of a field? .....Kid's treehouses? ........ old deserted farm houses ....... elevated hunting blinds? Interesting thought.

Oh Damn!!!! It's finally happened. I have apparently totally lost my sense of humor. What kind of goofy nonsense is that?

Ok, since you know exactly how many points were on the missing chunk of antler, I am going to assume that he had it on his head when you first saw him and shot. So I would guess he lost it somewhere between where you shot it and where it finally wound up dead (probably where it fell). So if you know where it stood when you shot, and the blood trailing was not excessively long, I think there is an excellent chance that you could go back out and find it. Don't wait for the snow to cover it up. If you are interested in having it all mounted, I would think that a taxidermist might be able to do a pretty acceptable job of re-attaching it. If that's not the way it all happened and you are going to try to aimlessly wander through the whole woods looking for it, I would suggest that you save yourself a lot of time and effort. You would better spend your efforts buying a lottery ticket. The odds of success would be a whole lot better.

What is it about an elk that has any resemblance to a deer? Honestly, these guys are out hunting deer and they don't even have a clue what they actually look like? Pull those licenses ..... they don't even belong in the woods. Now the other side of the coin ....... I have to wonder what kind of Mickey Mouse fence do they have these critters enclosed in that they can "walk through the fence"? Why are we so accepting of the careless way some of these places maintain their facilities when non-native species are involved? It seems to me that rules and regulations on these game farms and hunting preserves need a whole lot of tightening. Their should be required construction rules for enclosures based on species, along with initial inspection and periodic un announced future inspections. Failure to properly maintain enclosures should result in prmanent closure. We now have a breeding population of a very destructive species because of sloppy housing practices involved by these kinds of places. One of three things needs to happen. set up some very strict regulations and inspections of the housing and control of non-native species, make the penalties for escaped animals so steep that no one would ever risk an escape, or outlaw these kinds of places completely.

A few years back, I took a day off from hunting and I was taking a walk down the driveway to get the paper. The driveway is about 1000 feet long and bracketed on both sides by thick vines, trees and brush so naturally I took my shotgun along just in case something goofy were to happen along the way. Around here it's a good idea to take the gun any time the season is open even if it is to just step out in the yard. I got a little way down the driveway, and I looked over in the thicket and there was a buck just laying there at about 15 yards looking at me. I'm sure he was just doing what he had done many times before ....... sitting tight and letting me just walk by. He was kind of hunkered into some vines and I imagine he felt pretty darn confident that he blended right in and that I would keep right on walking. Unfortunately for him, this just happened to be the first snow of the season, and he didn't realize just how much he stuck out there silhouetted against the snow. At 15 yards he let me turn toward him, unsling and shoulder my shotgun and shoot. That was a short drag. I learned a little something about the behavior of deer during gun season. They have learned to just hold tight and let hunters almost step on them. If it hadn't have just snowed, that little tactic would have worked for him one more time because he would have been completely camoflaged in those vines.

I remember a few years back when the harvest was a bit low and everybody and his brother had some kind of theory as to why the take was down. One guy said it was because the acorn crop in his area was too heavy, and deer were dispersed throughout the oak hillsides. Another guy said it was because in his area the acorn crop was too light and all the deer had moved out of traditional oak pockets. Others were claiming that the phase of the moon on opening day screwed that traditionally "most successfull" day up. Then there were the ones that blamed the coyotes, and the weather, and the temperatures, and the lack of snow, and the previous winter severity, and excessive issuance of permits, and excessive posting of property, and on and on and on. I'm probably forgetting a bunch of them also.....lol. Even the DEC gets involved in this guessing game. There never is any shortage of excuses and reasons. Maybe some of them are right, maybe none of them are right ..... who knows? But we keep on guessing.

Is it possible that maybe she was injured or wounded? I once shot a doe at about 10 feet that refused to get up. Examining the deer afterward, I found a slug-hole just above the rear hoof. Apparently that leg had stiffened up and she decided that she couldn't or wouldn't get up and run away.

Thanks for the reply. That's kind of what I figured, but wasn't sure. I sort of reasoned that if they were not allowed to investigate violations on private property, property owners would be given a free pass to break any laws that they wanted. I have heard of enough tickets written on private land to know that can't be the case. Lol.... so any property owners that are counting on law enforcement not being able to enter your land ...... better clean up your act .... ha-ha.

I understand what you are saying, but I think there is probably a huge difference between breaking in the doors on a residence vs. walking onto private woodlots to invetigate a reported violation. At any rate, I think that neither of us is in law enforcement of any part of judicial law, so actually neither of us knows one way or the other for sure. Maybe some member here is in law enforcement and can shed some light on all that.

I could have done that this afternoon. It would have been about a 45 yard shot. However, I am now at the point where I have all the venison that the two of us need. Later on in the week I may try to fill a permit just because I am ready to get back out again. My Mother could use the venison. But anyway, your comment about the legality of shooting from the house is right on. Maybe if I had the shotgun handy, I would have done it today. I used to feel a bit bad about shooting semi-tame deer that we have been watching feeding in the front yard. But after a few of my pine trees were killed and I lost a few fruit trees, that isn't a problem anymore ... lol.

How many hunters were involved in those kills?

During gun season, opening Saturday and the first Sunday I am in my stand prior to sunrise and I come out some time late in the afternoon depending on hunter pressure. For me that is amazing stamina. This opening day was cut short by a kill within a couple of hours after sunrise. After the first two weekend days, each day is a still-hunting day because the deer have been driven into their super-security mode and have no intentions of moving in the daylight. Lately when the first weekend is over, hunter pressure drops to zero or very near it and there is no way that a deer is coming to me. So I get into the mode of "I go to the deer" (still-hunting). That often becomes my most productive means of hunting. Bow season it is a case of two or more hours in the morning and two or more hours at the end of the day. I have never been an all-day stander. I'm not into pain, anguish and paralyzing boredom. Hunting is not my career, and I try to give it the priority that I think it deserves by hunting the 4 hottest hours of the day. Lol... there's no apology in that statement, it's just the way I approach what is supposed to be recreation. I suspect that I have never really missed any opportunities during those mid-day hours because I am sure that the snoring would drive any approaching deer away before it ever got to me.

Well, maybe the thread is a bit unexplainable, goofy and perhaps a bit over-blown, but I do like the title and I think a new word has been born ....... "kwitcherbitchun". That word might be a good reply on a lot of posts ..... .

By the way, I have a trail cam down by the garden that I can see from the livingroom window. About a half hour ago, I saw two does down getting their pictures taken in broad daylight while they were munching on grass. I think I might have it right that hunting pressure has been so light that deer are returning to their pre-season daylight patterns and feeding activities. If you also have noticed the light hunting activity as I have in our locality, this might be a good time to employ a few of the bow season tactics from earlier in the year. It's also interesting to note that the temps are still well into the 40's right now. So this activity is not exactly related to any kind of cold-snap. So maybe if the hunters are not going to supply enough pressure to put the deer on their feet, perhaps the ridiculous lack of hunting pressure may coax deer back into their daytime patterns.

Here's a tip specific to those that are using a bow. I would imagine that we might be getting into some colder weather that we never experienced during the early bow season. That colder weather will require new additional layers of clothing that we may not have had on during previous practice sessions. Do some practice using whatever cold-weather gear that you may be using on the hunt. You don't want any "interference" or "shooting form" surprises when the deer is in front of you. Tip #2 kind of goes without saying and relates to the above suggestion, but for most, it has been a while since the last practice session. Check things out and don't assume that early season practice sessions are still holding proper shooting form and techniques.

I don't believe that any law enforcement officer (including DEC law enforcement) has to abide by trespass laws while investigating anything they want to investigate. They can and are expected to investigate any and all complaints. That's what the 1-800-TIPP-DEC phone line that they have been pushing every year for decades is all about. As they put it on page 63 of the game syllabus that phone number is to be used to "report poaching, trespassing, baiting or other wildlife violations". Note that they have specifically listed baiting. I'm not sure, but I believe that system utilizes anonymous reporting.

Call the DEC with the details and let them take care of the baiting situation.E-mail them some pictures so they know you have a rel problem going on there.

What has to happen is for deer to knock off this nocturnal thing they have going on. At least in this area that is the case. And maybe with this lack of hunters out there, that just might happen.

This may be the year where the hunting pressure has been so sparce that the deer just might begin reverting to unhunted patterns. It sure has been quiet out there. Yes, there's hope yet!

Careful about the over-generalization of using that term "everyone". And speaking of "sensitive whining and crying", isn't that what this whole topic is all about?

I have seen a lot of days when it would have been darned nice to have one of those. What the heck, it is just a more exotic treestand. I don't think anyone in one of these sophisticated treestands has any less of a fairchase hunt than someone in a conventional treestand. So on what basis would you make these illegal that wouldn't also apply to any standard treestand? With my luck, I would erect one of these and a deer would never come anywhere near there again. The fact is that standard treestands blend in far better and take better advantage of the surprise, hidden elevated position than one of these barn-on-stilts stands. So what's the problem?