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Maybe thats why I have had a lone doe following me around all day while I was skidding logs out of the woods. That it was odd she just kept coming back. Its too bad you didnt have the camera on you that would have been some neat pictures.

The response was about the position that Tom took about the money. Some feel the DEC just wants to generate money some think it's about improving the deer herd. If it's about the B/Ml getting by with free DMP then I suggested adding $10 to the license but it's not about the money in my opinion It's about Deer management in the areas that need to increase the numbers of deer. Dave Well I do agree It is about deer management. Adding the 10 fee for a doe permit fits the plan well in my opinion. Why should a hunter who does not apply for doe permits be charge an additional 10 on his or her regular license to fund the dmp? I think its pretty fair that they are charging for the DMP instead of adding 10 dollars to everyones license epsecially for the guys who do not live in areas where doe permits are given out or for guys who do not apply for them to begin with. I know a few guys that will not shoot a doe and do not apply for the tags that do not bowhunt either. So why should they pay more?

Let me quote myself. "You know the guy that you find sitting in your treestand and call the DEC on him yet again. You know the guy who gets busted for poaching at night in the very same field after losing his hunting license for 5 years and gets that slap on the wrist and a small fine." When I started making the calls it was a he said she said game, as far as the doe and 2 fawns hanging it was a few simple words from this yahoo that nothing could be done without proof. Him his wife and his son all had a muzzleloader license and all had the antlerless tag and all 3 deer where tag. Without proof that this guy shot all 3 and used his family tags there was no where for the DEC to go. I also stated he lost his hunting rights for 5 years at one point. He was also arrrested for trespassing. If you knew our town judge and his lack of disipilnary actions you would better understand why this has happened for so many years.

Not smart enough lol. You need to go back and read what I posted. What do you guys not understand? Getting rid of the either sex tag allows them to manage each specific DMU. How much more clear can it get. The either sex tag restricts them from doing just that. It allows a A/M hunter to use that tag anywheres in NY. And yet again I said returning the 10 dollar fee alows them to help fund doing it.

Yep traps for eab and alb. Not good if they find any in these traps. They are getting closer and closer to my home now.

After reading all these comments a few times it has come to my realization that Ny has some pretty selfish bowhunters. I just do not understand some people at all. They complain about the deer herd in their area and cannot fathom the concept of the DEC trying to better regulate the herd by doing away with the either sex tag. Guys think about why the deer herd is so low in specific areas. Maybe its a combination of harsh winters, fawn kills or overharvesting of does. DEC cant control the weather, there is already a coyote season and every DEC officer I have talked to said have at it, so whats that leave them to get the numbers up. HMMMMMMMMM doe permits. If people love there hunting grounds like they say they do why in the world are they not willing to help the herd and forgo a either sex deer tag? Also if you are not able to get a doe permit then doesnt that also tell you something. The agenda is pretty clear in my opinion and I have said it before, taking away the either sex tag does 2 things It allows the DEC to control the deer herd by managing permits specefic to the DMU and yes forgive them for needing funds to do this by charging us 10 dollars just like they did in the old days. Its your choice to give them 10 dollars to apply for a doe permit, if someone is so opposed to spending 10 dollars then forgo it and it wont help fund the project. 10 dollars wont even get me 3 gallons of gas. Its a small price for something we are so passionate about. Getting rid of the either sex tag is also a small price to pay to better the future of our hunting that we are so passionate about.

Thanks guys yes we are looking for a cabin cottage type deal. We contenplated the tent idea and just want something a little more on the simple side. Although it does open up alot of places to go.

Okay fellow hunters I have a delima that has me and a handful of other hunting buddies need some help with. We have been going to the Adirondacks once a year to get together and spend some time around the campfire and bowhunting. Its a special time for us as we are all old buddies that have worked together at some point in our lives and use this time to catch up and spend some quality time in the woods. Well the place we have rented in the Adirondacks is now unavailable due to family differences. So we are now searching hard for a new place to go. We all have searched quite a bit and come up with prices that we are not comfortable with or places that are not ideal for us. We are not heart set on the adirondacks even though its phenominal country. Any ideas or places out there you guys can recomend for us? We do like to spend time around the campfire b.s.ing and get a little competative with our bows at some 3d targets we bring along. ALways clean up after ourselves and leave things better than we arrived. Lots of firewood is a bonus as we cook over the campfire and such. It could be pretty much anywhere in NY and the more secluded the better. Usually we spend 3 or 4 days there.

Thats got to be a huge bummer. I know when I herbacided mine I used a product form Gordens. I had some nasty stuff growing from brush, briars and poison ivy. What confused me about it was that every other stuff on the shelf had a plant date on it but this stuff. I called and they told me the same 30 to 90 days. That put me to the end of july so it just reassured my decision to go with an annuall anyhow. I will say that I did a small test plot of seeds in another area to see what the deer prefered and they seemed to really like the whitetail forage oats plus from whitetail institute so that is what Im going with. $40 for half an acre of seed. I did in the middle of the food plot throw down a handfull of seed to test for the herbacide killing it out a week ago and it seems to be growing fine even through this dry spell. Its standing at about 4 inches right now. Second week of august its all going in. I have made many mistakes that have lead to less than ideal results from a foodplot and the good thing is we learn from it and they will just keep getting better and better the more we do it. Good luck with your seed choice and keep us posted.

Im not sure I even have the ability to follow this thread anymore lol. Heck I will give it a shot anyways. As far as the comment made about people who apply for a dmp and find the chances are slim to none and choose the next closet area is indeed true enough. I am or should I say was one of those guys a few years ago along with 5 other members in my camp and atleast 6 other friends I know off of the top of my head. I cant speak for those other 6 but I know that we no longer do it at my camp. It seemed like a good plan but when it came right down to it in several years of getting a doe permit for another area we actually only ventured over there once to give it a whirl. We decided that it was selfish of us to take the chance away from someone who indeeds hunts that area and wants a doe permit so we quit. It seem it was more of a hunters bragging deal when all the buddies call each other and asked how many doe permits did you get. It was like we won money or something and had to brag about it. I think alot of this debate on the DEC 5 year plan and doe permits and such truly shows the breakdown of the stages hunters go through in their life. Most of us if not all went through or are going through these stages and I think at some point we can all relate to these different feelings everyone has towards this topic. Myself Im stuck in between the big buck stage and the just get out in the woods and enjoy yourself stage lol. I do usually harvest a doe over a young buck to put some food on the table and to help justify the expense of my endeavors as a hunter. Theres nothing like a backstrap on the grill anyways. So now as far as the doe permits and the one buck tag I just see a better deer management across the state. Its pretty darn clear to me that the areas with low deer ratios need something implemented to stop the over harvesting in order for these areas to recover and again become a prime hunting area for all to enjoy. Yes I happen to hunt 2 of these areas and one of them was an area that was overpopulated. I can remember days of watching a herd of 16 plus does walk by my stand and that was less than 10 years ago. Now these past few years you might see lone does or a doe with her fawns and most days you see the same young buck or three wondering all over the place or I might not see a deer for days. So with the regulation of doe tags in my area in southern tier where there are 4 other camps around me with a few thousand acres of state land that surrounds my measly little 75 acres there is about 25 guys that hunt this area in these camps hard. Thats 25 either sex tags in one peice of state land that does not include the locals or the state hunters antlerless tag count. SO let me take a swing at this and say there are at any given time 50 guys that bowhunt this hill wether it be the state land or private land that have the current opportunity to harvest a doe. I have to think that is a majority of the doe herd on this hill. If we want this area to recover a few years of no doe tags is a small price to me. Now lets revert to the other scenario an overpopulated area. If it is indeed overpopulated and doe take needs to be increased I really do not believe that anyone is going to have a hard time getting a DMP to harvest a doe in the A/M season or gun season. I will end by saying there is a stage of a hunters life where he goes through the greed stage. I went through it myself. Its a stage where we have to have every dang tag filled and we need every tag we can get legally to fill it. A stage were every deer on the hil is my deer. A stage were if I dont shoot it the other guy will. Looking back now I think too many were in this stage when we first bought this land and built a camp in southern tier and so were all the other guys on that hill. Its a shame because not only did the DEC mess up and give out to many permits, we as hunters messed up even worse when we relied on someone else to tell us what our peice of heaven deamed fit and we followed pursuit. Not only did the DEC decide they made or are making mistakes and need to make a change but we as hunters need to realize we did too. We overharvested and we underharvested our hunting areas the DEC just gave us the green light to do so. It seems that most of us hunters cannot or do not have the ability to make these harvesting decisions so I am personally glad that the DEC has decided enough is enough we need better management of our whitetail population. Is the proposal flawless? Of course not but it is indeed a step towards the right direction and we cant move forward until the first step has been taken.

Compound for me. The only thing I might switch over to eventually is a traditional bow of some sorts. I have no experience with a xbow and see no reason for me to have to gain that experience. Theres nothing like putting in hard work practicing every possible shot and seeing it all come together in the woods. I dont have a problem at all with anyone who wants to make the switch I dont see how people toting them in the archery season will have any effect on the my hunting. Worst case scenario it puts more hunters in the woods enjoying the same passion of pursueing whitetails that I have. And with a ever declining hunting population is that such a bad thing?

That reply alone is the best point I have read on why they are proposing to take the either sex tag away. That never even crossed my mind. Not only would taking that tag away let that 8pt walk if your A/M buck tag is filled it also let that buck get bigger if it survived gun season as well. So the scenario of the DEC fullfilling hunters request of a mature buck herd and them wanting better management of doe harvest gets them both in one deal. Great point!

Man all you guys have some great mounts and then that last one just put the icing on the cake unbelievable. Anyone thinks NY doesnt have a big buck population is just plain ole crazy.

Agreed!! The DEC even states that doe harvest by bowhunters is insignificant. So why take away the either sex tag? So they can get another 10 bucks out of you. Its included in the price of your B/M tag currently. This can be debated until the deer come home. They need the funds we need the deer to keep funding them its a win win. Think about that a second.

Okay so you guys throw the common sense crap out there right. I will tell you I live in norther tier and have hunted with a rifle as soon as I was able to pick one up. I am well aware of the common sense factor between shotguns and rifles. I am neutral as well on them. Now with that said how about some other common sense. A semi auto rifle can rip off rounds just as fast as a semi auto shotgun and a single shot rifle with a bolt action on it can be pretty darn close to ripping off a shots as fast as a pump shotgun. EIther with or without a scope. What you people fail to reconize is it is not the weapon that kills people its the friggin idiots who have no idea how to hunt, now idea how to ethically and safely harvest an animal. These dumbasses are more rare in northern tier than southern tier for some common sense reasons as well. There are more opportunities in Southern tier to harvest a deer. Theres more deer per mile and bigger cities with a higher population of humans who think they know how to safely dispatch a firearm and well I bet that atleast half of them dont. Just listen come opening morning in southern tier and do tell me if I am wrong. I have never had a deer run buy me full of holes from its ears to its ass in northern tier on any day of the season let alone opening day. A rifle in an ethical and safe hunters hands I have no problem with its the others that I do. I wish the DEC would regulate the amount of shells we can have loaded at one time to 2. So to sum this all up there will be zero difference in the way these types of hunters hunt wether they are shouldering a shotgun or a rifle. The only difference is the effective killing range of the bullet.

Do I like it nope but if the deer herd in certain areas are on the decline, giving out either sex tags to bow/muzzleoaders in those areas doesnt help the situation at all. Wouldnt a few years of this type of regulations that could potentially bring back a declining deer herd be worth it in the long run? Regulating the number of doe that can be harvested in these areas is a plus in my book. I think if they felt the herd was healthy through out every region in the state this would not happen. In those areas where doe permits are readily available it should not be a problem to get the permits to begin with and for those areas that are starved of deer, those extra either sex tags are only hurting them. It to me is like spending money beyond your means and then complaining about it when the day comes you have to declare bankrupcy. I would rather them tackle it now than when the deer are gone and we are really ticked off cause they close down areas to hunting all together to get the herd count up. I truly can understand some of your guys emotions towards this in highly populated areas and those guys will probably not have a problem getting doe tags to begin with. Its the areas that are underpopulated that need this regulation.

Corporate policy? They really said that. I have 2 TSC within 30 minutes of my house and they both stock on their shelves a variety of food plot seeds. I dont mean a generic brand either The same seeds you see in Bass pro, gander mountain etc. I think someone was pulling your leg on that one. The place is convenient but over priced to begin with anyhow.

19 acres of foodplots. WOW very cool. What do you think the deer like the most out of all the stuff you plant?

Well Im lucky enough that I have a creek that runs through my property about 30 feet from my main foodplot. Im also a maple syrup producer so I have some gas pumps that will push more water to the plot to keep it nice and moist than I need. That one is an area that has never been plowed up now. I plowed it last year in the spring and again in the fall and yet again this late spring to work the soil better. Have dragged it 3 times since to get the old growth roots out and way way too many rocks so its nice and broken up finally. Been welding up my version of a rock picker to go on the bottom of my backblade on the 3 pt hitch. Back is to sore to pick up one more rock. It is all looking good and ready for fertilizer and seed in a few weeks. Wife thinks Im nuts to go to all this trouble but heck its alot easier than making malple syrup and just as enjoyable to me. But syrup makes me money and food plots cost me money lol. Maybe I am nuts now that I think about it.

I always love the misinformation people give out. I think alot do just that to deter us hunters for getting a leg up on those deer. I went to Tractor Supply the other week to look at some of the seed they had. Lady walks over and demanded that it is illegal to hunt over a food plot and if that was my intentions she would not sell me any of it. I checkled and said okay lady I will be back tomarrow with a present for you. I went back with a printout off the DEC website and handed it to her. She looked at me really funny as I suggested to her that she should actually know what she is talking about before she speaks and left. Went back a few days later to get some welding rods and she rang me out and appologized and said it was just what she was told. If these people would just shut up. Think about it how many acorn trees have you hunted under? How many people setup on apple trees? They are all sources of food, some man put their some not. Food plot is no different it is a source of food. If you choose to hunt over it or just have it to attract and hold deer on your property or a suplement to get them through the winter its your choice not some anti spreading rumors.

ANd to think last year we had record rainfall all summer here and the Salmon River was running at 24000 cfs when its normal summer flow is 180cfs. It doesnt matter if it cold, snow, rain drought, hot or none of the above its definately global warming, just ask Al Gores Ex wife. LOL

I think they are expanding in order to lengthen the gun down the road. wouldn't be past them to give with one hand and take with the other. Tsome WMU's around me a archery only because of the human population. Don't think for a minute they wouldn't let the guns go if the local laws werent there on firearms discharge. I don't think anyone can argue that the gun is a more effective weapon. it would solve some of the over population problems in these areas bu tthe possible costs would be too high. Oh im not going to argue the gun is more effective at all. What I was argueing was the choice of words used that the DEC considers bowseason as a wasted harvest opportunity. With 35000 deer harvested by bow and the 100's of thousand of dollars it brings to the state does anyone really believe that. LIke I said without the income there would not be any money to manage anything and if they start messing with such things they are going to lose those monetary funds to manage. I hunt with all the weapons we are allowed minus the crossbow and Im sure I will own one of those as well. As far as the archery only zones I partially agree as well but a bow is a weapon also and I know in my village it is illegal to hunt with a bow let alone a gun inside the village limits. So they improvised on those laws in some areas to get the deer population under control. Now I was once told by a DEC officer in a town meeting when this very question came up and the he said the biggest factor was not to disturb the community with the noise of guns going off and it was more or less if you cant hear it people arent (anti's) abt to complain near as much. A bow is an effective weapon in the right hands as well as a gun. You can put either one in some city slicking once a weekend a year wannabe hunter and make it more of a danger to other hunters and wildlife full of holes running around that eventually suffer and die that never get tagged or reported to the DEC. So like I said before I do believe the big goal by the DEC is to get as much money as they can to fund them in order to manage the wildlife in NY without losing any more hunters. It is truly sad in my honest opinion that there are hunting groups fighting each other and constantly bashing there methods of harvesting an animal and the greed that it all entails is rediculous. They all should be working in unisom to better our hunting on a whole.

I find it rather hard to believe that the day will come when the dec starts dipping into the archery and ML season to manage the deer herd. They are not going to loose the income from bowhunters licenses and Ml licenses period. They however very well can extend the guns season beyond its closing date now. "Given their obvious attitude toward bowseason as a wasted harvesting opportunity" love how people can twist the living heck out of something. Care to tell me who and when the DEC has said this? And indeed if this is there true feelings care to tell me why they are proposing an Oct 1 opening in southern tier extending the bow season and also why is the bow the only effective weapon the dec has chosen in certain WMU"s? And save your energy throwing the xbow into that. Xbow does not put the deer under your stand to get the kill the hunter does, its effective range and power is comparible. Dont get confused it is not all about deer management its about gaining revenue so they can manage the deer. Addding x bows is an avenue for funds, charging for doe permits is an avenue for funds, longer seasons are avenues for more funds with as few losses to the number of hunters afield from their efforts. In the current position this state is in they need to seek out every avenue they can for funding. Why? to manage the wildlife in NY or I should rather say to manage the hunters in NY.

Ahhh who really gives a rats behind what someone else is using on their bow for a rest as long as they are happy with its performance. I love my drop away and when I bought my last bow it had a wisker bisquit on it and after being told I had to water proof it so it does not freeze up in the cold and snow I said keep it. But hey that was my choice however I do think they are the ugliest looking thing on any bow lol.

Those are some great pictures. Any trout in that steam? Very cool all Im getting is pictures of the same doe and her 2 fawns. Seems they are in love with my cameras. can move them to different areas and they seem to follow them no matter where I stick them lol.