KEVA

They are different. The first one is a nine pointer! Edit: I did not initially notice that the first video was of two separate bucks. Tough call on whether the 8 pointers are different.

Congrats! Thanks for the story, and great pictures. What a beast!

Like cwhite said, cops do not aim for vitals but center mass and shoot until the threat no longer exists. But if talking about cops is not a rabbit trail, I do not know what is... Personally, never understood the purpose of the head shot. Yea, I know you are not ruining meat that way, but the ribs seem like the better target if your not wanting to ruin meat. Several have mentioned only head shooting at a close distance, once again this eludes me. More likely to be accurate, but the error potential of a few inches seems troublesome at any range. Just my opinion, not well enough versed in the subject to hold head shooting against some one (except those who don't think it through thoroughly like some weekend warriors). I wait for a broadside shot and aim behind the shoulder. If this shot does not present itself there is always tomorrow! Oh, but anyone who takes head shots with a bow is off their rocker . Just need a tad of common sense to figure that one out.

Same deer, the right antler is a give away. Look closely and you can see the small forward point. Congrats on taking a buck you had photos of!

Turks, even if the hunting was legal, the tracking of a deer onto his property was trespassing. So yes, he definitely did something illegal, and insulting since he had been told multiple times that the guy did not want him hunting so close to his house. I think it is a matter of respect not to hunt so close to the guys house with out talking to him, illegal to trespass, insulting to trespass after their conversations, and ridiculous to say that he has a good back stop... the hill the house is situated on. "Don't worry fella, the hill you own and your kids like to sled on is catching all my bullets." Hmm... Not ok in my book.

Sad to see how poorly many people here view law enforcement. Obviously there are going to be some bad officers, but those are outnumbered by the good. The little man syndrom? Seriously? Sounds like someone has an issue with authority. Like others have mentioned, follow the law and you won't have problems. If you get a bogus ticket present the case to the judge and it will be the officer who has the issue. They put their lives on the line every day, ECO's included. You feel they don't care about the people then maybe you should look into the effect the job has on LEOs lives. Its tough to manage a family and friendships when work forces you to be watching out for your life at all times and to be suspicious of everything. We expect them to take every call, and sort out all our troubles with other people. When some one else's violation irks you, you feel cheated if they don't get a ticket.But when you violate the law you feel cheated for getting a ticket. Too often it seems that stories of good cops involve a cop showing leniency. I am not saying they should not be lenient in cases, but being lenient is not their job. As for Larry302, I am sure you are special for growing up in a rough city. Just because there are some horrific crimes occuring does not mean we need to neglect the smaller crimes. Seems to me that your city is understaffed, and overpopulated with violators. I have nothing but respect for officers who work in that environment. However, I also respect the men you described as being bored off theior a$$. ECO's approach armed men every day, and often on bad terms. Poachers with sawed off barrels in their cars, meth labs, drunkards, and assist in all law enforcement activities when needed. You sure are tough for being in the vicinity of shootings, next time try stopping the man doing the shooting and see that you don't crap yourself doing it.

Thanks for the congratulations everyone!

I took this eight point Thanksgiving Day. I can see my hunting ground from the house and saw this guy around noon. He disappeared in a small patch of trees (1/2 acre), and I quickly geared up and went after him. I sat for an hour waiting for him to come out after belly crawling into position, but after a while I had to go back home for the Thanksgiving Day meal. I did pass on two smaller bucks during that hour which were chasing does a good ways out, a big four point and a young six point. I kept an eye on the tree patch during dinner and he still never came out, so I skipped dessert and snuck back into position with the homemade shooting sticks. After twenty minutes a doe popped out from the tree patch. Within ten minutes she noticed me, but only realized something was out of place. He then came out behind her, but stayed beneath a dip so I could not get a clear shot. For around twenty minutes the doe was grazing in front of me at sixty yards, spending much more time focused on me than grazing. Fortunately, with my rifle shouldered and in the shooting sticks I never spooked her. Finally the buck moved up enough where I could get a clean shot. The sticks did their job making for an easy steady shot. Entered behind the near shoulder and exited out the front edge of the far shoulder. He ran out of view, but when I called home no one had seen him exit the trees and as he ran off it appeared he took it to the chest. After fifteen minutes I went to find the blood trail, but was greeted by him lying only forty yards from where he was shot. It was even early enough for me to gut and load him up without a light.

I could imagine the thief then filing a civil suit for damages for the dangerous treestand, but that is getting off topic. I have had a blind stolen as well. Some people...

Be careful when eating apples off the bamboo stakes, you don't want to impale yourself on them. If your lucky a deer may have done that over night making it a real short hunt for you...

Another vote for the .260. It is flat shooting, packs a punch, and has a reasonable recoil. I have taken a few deer with mine, works great.

I don't know if I could pass him greenehunter, but can you imagine how nice he will be in a year?

It does make the ECO's job tougher, but thats the way of life. Should not be making activities illegal to make enforcing other laws easier. As far as the tag filled thing, there will be a few people smart enough to utilize this, but most will slip up. ECO's are typically watching you for a good bit of time before approaching you anyway, they will normally be able to decipher the fur hunters from the poachers. I see how it is tough on them, but I rather be able to hunt coyotes during deer season than make an ECO's job easy.

The hawkbill is a smaller knife, though similiar model. The sturdiness/cutting ability of the crossbill is the reason he loves it, that and its price. The stainless steel handle is not something I would be comfortable with. The G-10 handle was solid with a great grip. Thanks though! I may have found one option, just the shipping rose the price a little out of my desired range.

I was hoping one of y'all may know where I could find one of these. The model has been discontinued, but it is one of my brother's favorite knives. If anyone had one they were willing to sell or knows where I can track one down that would be amazing. Plain, combo, or serrated blade is fine. Though combo or serrated is preferred. Thanks!

Dang man, I would have a hard time sleeping knowing that guy was walking around my hunting property. Good luck with that big ole 14 point!

Nyantler, I certainly found the reply less than friendly. Hunters using culling as an excuse is an opinion about hunters who cull. Also, culling deer is deer management, though it may be unsuccessful in its ultimate goal. I agree with you though on focusing deer patterns, which is something biologists study...

The three year old spike could have been pedicle damage, not quite certain how to explain it occuring to both sides. I would have felt reassured to have it out of the herd as well. Nice point on the does, it seem that is the best way to improve a herd, maintain the number of does.

That would be one wide 2.5 year old, I would say 3.5. Take the brute!

Skeptical. But as we cannot not determine the truth of the matter, maybe we had best give him the benefit of the doubt. He did not claim the first really, though I did assume it was his as he posted it on here with himself in the photo. The authorities are the only ones who could find out the truth. If the first was his, he may have used his tag on it. The second he claimed publicly here and would not have a tag for... Anyhow the point is clear that forum members are anti illegal hunting, I will personally give him the benefit of the doubt.

Well this topic peeked my interest so I went and read up using scholarly resources. The reference will be at the end of the post, but I am not sure you will have easy access to it. I accessed it through my college library database. The study concluded that it was not practical to impact antler size on free ranging deer through selective harvest. The study looked at two antler characteristics, number of points and gross Boone and Crockett antler score. The study relied on previous studies to come up with numeric values, which it ran through models which excluded envirnmental effects. The models looked at two different cases, captive deer and free ranging. The captive did show a marked improvement over an eight year period. Almost doubled AP and score, and the study noted these changes were similiar to those seen in observational studies. Giving this study some more credibility. The models only yielded slight improvement for free ranging deer over a much longer twenty year period. An increased AP(antler points) of 0.8 was given. Things to consider: -The study relied on some assumptions, but was conservative in these assumptions. For example, the only deer removed were culled (all desirables had the opportunity to pass their genetics). Immigration of new animals was not included in calculations (you had greater control over genetics than a real world instance) -The captive deer showed marked improvement because both male and female were selected. Females were selected based on exstensive pedigrees. In free ranging deer you can only select against males based on antlers(females don't have antlers but do pass on genetic information affecting antlers). - The study looked at four variables of selective harvest of which three yielded a correlation; mating ratio M:F, heritability (unknow), and age structure. Mating ratio proved most significant, then heritability, then age structure. Therefore, the most effective selection for impacting antlers is to alter the mating ratio to the healthiest state. Conclusion: It is not practical to impact antler size by controlling free ranging deer genetics through culling. Immigration of new animals would prevent any impact. Does would continue to carry the undesirable genes. Some undesirables would mate before being harvested, and some undesirables would survive each year. Some desirables would be harvested before mating. Environmental impacts would make it difficult to distinguish between deer with desirable genes and undesirable genes. Antlers of young deer can be impossible to determine whether desirable or not, and older deer have already been passing on their genetics. State regulations would prevent you from harvesting enough deer to substantially impact the population. Hope people find this interesting. If not, sorry for the long post. This is only one study, and it did use models (not observations). I read through it though, and it seemed more than sufficient for determining selection of free ranging deer is not effective in controlling antler genetics. The assumptions were conservative, and many unaddressed factors would only make managing free ranging deer more difficult. Reference: Stephen, L. W., Demarais, S., Bronson, K. S., Randy, W. D., Brian, P. K., & Kenneth, L. G. (2012). Effects of selective harvest on antler size in white-tailed deer: A modeling approach. Journal of Wildlife Management, 76(1), 48-56. Retrieved from http://search.proque...accountid=12085

Seems a bit hostile of a response nyantler. Coonhunter is just looking for a discussion on the subject, and that is what many of the replies have offered. Though opposing views could be shared in a less derogatory manner. If you read his post you would see some of the bucks they culled weighed 190 dressed. That is not a young buck, but then again I am not a biologist. Coonhunter, sounds like you have a nice area to hunt in. That swamp sounds golden for helping protect the more intelligent mature deer. As for culling bucks, I would have to agree with most the guys here. A wild herd has too much gene flow to effectively control what genetics get passed. I could see how killing a buck with a rare trait could help prevent that trait from being passed, but large bucks with few points are common and will continue passing their genes. I would say that your groups desire to cull has led to better hunting practices. Passing on younger bucks means a longer season trying to wait out for the big guy, the more time in stand the more bucks you will see. Also, experience should have improved you as hunters over the years. My guess is you have all become more experienced outdoorsman and that is why you are seeing more desirable deer. My advice, take the mature bucks regardless of the number of points. Frankly, I feel most achieved over the age of my deer and the way it is taken. I won't take a 1.5 year with a gun, but took one with the bow this year. Felt fantastic to harvest a deer with my bow and I couldn't have been happier. Each hunter has their own goals, and as long as one gets the thrill or puts meat on the table who cares how big the deer was. You brought up a good topic, thanks for the thread. Don't let a couple of harsh responses get to you, that is unfortunately how most hunting forums end up.

This does not mean drinking while hunting is illegal, just being intoxicated is. So as long as you stay below a 0.08 you are legal, unless you are impaired. Then it does not matter what your BAC is, but they must provide good reason for believing your impaired. I am not saying I approve of drinking while hunting, just that the law you reference indicates it is legal.

Selling bait at outdoor sporting stores is one of the most ridiculous things I have seen being done. I imagine Bass Pro and Cabelas do the same? It is an easy line to draw though. Baiting is illegal, stores should not be allowed to sell bait. As to what you want to define as bait, I don't care if the only products they outlaw are those promoted as deer feed. I know you can't stop people from bying bait from farm stores, but that is not the issue. A store that caters to hunters should not be promoting baiting, and by selling bait you are promoting it. You cannot say they are selling it for those who go out of state or for farmers, that is ridiculous. If that were the case, why do they suddenly stock up right before hunting season. It is not just the chain stores that do this unfortunately. The local sportsman store sells some deer feed as well. I don't really think we can do anything about it, other than hold each accountable. The demand for bait is the real issue. The stores are just an insult to outdoorsmen. By the way, this is a statement from Gander Mountain's site. "Gander Mountain has joined forces with a host of important outdoor groups, federations, and organizations who share our interest in preserving and managing the natural resources of North America. Together, we strive toward the common goal of bettering the outdoor experience for generations to come." How is promoting an illegal activity bettering the outdoor experience?

I believe the reason you are allowed is it is difficult to distinguish between does and button bucks. Three inches is just a point at which they feel you no longer have an excuse for misidentifying a buck as a doe.