burmjohn

Steve, Again, in the area I hunt with AR, the opportunity has increased to take a buck. The guy that cares about AR, QDM, or "Bigger Antlers" guys as you say, in addition to the guys that want to shoot anything; have more of an opportunity now in my area then before. This is fact, based on my own research, my land, my neighbors and my immediate hunting area. I am not speaking for anyone else other then that. Doe permits are a different story, the DEC over shot their goals, so they had to reduce the doe permits. Just as you posted the above, in the other thread, I am pasting what I had posted below. Unfortunately it seems the DEC doesn't have the historical data by WMU on the site anywhere that I found, it only went back to 2006. With out seeing the actual numbers, its hard to come up with any kind of analysis. Buck take was DOWN for quite a few years after the high numbers in 2003 statewide. year Adult Male Fawn Male Adult Female Fawn Female Total 2009 102,057 19,710 84,330 16,701 222,798 2008 105,747 20,000 79,953 17,279 222,979 2007 104,451 21,096 76,367 17,227 219,141 2006 96,569 18,336 60,102 14,101 189,108 2005 89,015 16,373 61,179 13,647 180,214 2004 88,733 21,022 80,196 18,455 208,406 2003 107,533 26,883 94,376 24,296 253,088

Yes you are, I just gave you one there that you chose to ignore. Again, in the area I hunt with AR, the opportunity has increased to take a buck.

Steve, you are generalizing that every AR person is just in it for the antlers. A few of these AR proponents here, including myself, are far from head hunters. I've only had the opportunity to take a few bucks in the 15 years I've been hunting. In the area's where AR is implemented, or the area's AR is implemented and I have hunting experience in, the opportunity to take a buck has increase.

Hmm, the bed liner thing isnt a bad idea. I wonder how that would hold up to oil and stuff.

That is a great idea. Please let us know the results. I emailed a few times, and always get directed to a page that is already existing on the DEC site.

I wonder if some type of epoxy coat could work?

That SS option might cost a small fortune, however it would look really nice P.S. under the 3/4 ply is 2x4's every 12 inches.

Wow, this was the first time I got to shoot the bow with that "Bow Rattler" installed. What a difference in noise reduction! I some of the best groups ever today.

I built a few work benches for my garage a few months ago. Going to build a few more over the winter after the hunting season Anyways, anyone ever doing any kind of neat / interesting tops on them? Right now its just 3/4 plywood, but I like to work on cars and I am always spilling some kind of grease or oil. I was thinking of getting some kind of diamond plate topping or something to put on there. Any suggestions? I found some crappy cell phone pics I took of the work benches when I was building them, attached.

True, do you sharpen heads even if they are right out of the box?

Ahh Ok. So throwing that stat out there is a bit misleading without clarification. I wish we could just get an accurate survey, not sure how that would work since just because you buy in Sullivan doesn't mean you hunt there, and the same goes for other places.

Larry, Not to be a stickler but, Sullivan county is more then just the AR units. So I am not sure your stats are correct.

I'm 100% sure its not needed in all area's. I see the bucks friends bring home from some of the WMU's I do not have access to (nor would like to haul to every weekend), its quite amazing I'd love to see before and after numbers too, I searched all over the DEC site, I put the 2006 - 2009 numbers in my spreadsheet to save in case they move them off the site for the AR zones. Trying to do my own research and draw my own conclusions. Like I said I speak from my own experiences and those that I hunt with, its been a fun last few years in 3J, and hopefully they continue in 3H this year.

Crap I forgot to order this. Does this stuff smell at all? What if you use a cover scent / scent killer spray over your treated clothes, i wonder if that effects it?

I don't think they are false claims, and most of the stats that he posted he gave links to where that information was obtained from. I'd like to see a larger sample set of data, I asked the DEC a few weeks back and there is supposed to be a survey done in 2010. I'd like it to stay in my area, I want to see what happens. This is our first year in 3H, and I went through the introductions with all the neighbors to get to know eachother. I actually brought this topic up to each and every one of them. I found not one person that was not for AR, I even made a trip down to the Narrowsburg lumber store, there was a PA hunter and a local cochecton Hunter. He asked me what is all this wood for, I said for building some tree stands. Then we started talking hunting, antler restrictions, etc. Both were for it, the PA guy went on about the bucks they see now for at least 30 min. I also had to hit up the local sports / gun shop, I needed some rain gear. Same goes for him, for it. Granted my sample size was small, and local to 3H. I don't get all the negativity from those are no wheres near these WMU's. Every single of of these guys said not only is the opportunity to harvest a buck greater, the opportunity to harvest a larger more mature buck is greater. They are seeing more activity on their properties during hunting then ever before. This year, is my brothers first year hunting. After seeing the trail cam photo's, coming with me to build stands, learning how to shoot a bow, he is excited to harvest his first deer. It may be a doe, it may be a buck, who knows. We are trying to do a little more then what the state mandated AR is, and I talked with him about it first, he was 100% fine with it and understands the potential benefits of allowing the smaller guys to walk. None the less, I'd like him to take a doe for his first deer (or a buck) to see if he likes the sport, you never know till after a hunters first kill..

Buck, Nice video and buck. Pretty neat how they come back year after year to the same scrape?

Haha he does I went to the range tonight, I am 100% dialed in @ 20 yards, and need to just polish up 30. Feeling good!

Regardless of where he cut and pasted that from, those appear to be the same DEC numbers from the study / survey the DEC did...

Unfortunately it seems the DEC doesn't have the historical data by WMU on the site anywhere that I found, it only went back to 2006. With out seeing the actual numbers, its hard to come up with any kind of analysis. Buck take was DOWN for quite a few years after the high numbers in 2003 statewide. year Adult Male Fawn Male Adult Female Fawn Female Total 2009 102,057 19,710 84,330 16,701 222,798 2008 105,747 20,000 79,953 17,279 222,979 2007 104,451 21,096 76,367 17,227 219,141 2006 96,569 18,336 60,102 14,101 189,108 2005 89,015 16,373 61,179 13,647 180,214 2004 88,733 21,022 80,196 18,455 208,406 2003 107,533 26,883 94,376 24,296 253,088

Is it down? I posted this on the other thread... Here is the buck harvest data from the DEC for the 3H WMU, its all the data they offer on the site. 2006 was the first year of AR in WMU 3H, which probably accounts for the drop in harvest that year. Year Bucks 2006 876 2007 1181 2008 1127 2009 1245 This is 3K Year Bucks 2006 656 2007 655 2008 701 2009 569 This is 3C Year Bucks 2006 508 2007 490 2008 433 2009 514 This is 3J WMU Year Bucks 3J 2006 712 3J 2007 679 3J 2008 684 3J 2009 797

Here is the buck harvest data from the DEC for the 3H WMU, its all the data they offer on the site. 2006 was the first year of AR in WMU 3H, which probably accounts for the drop in harvest that year. Year Bucks 2006 876 2007 1181 2008 1127 2009 1245 This is 3K Year Bucks 2006 656 2007 655 2008 701 2009 569 This is 3C Year Bucks 2006 508 2007 490 2008 433 2009 514 This is 3J WMU Year Bucks 3J 2006 712 3J 2007 679 3J 2008 684 3J 2009 797 I am not sure what the 2.5 take was for those numbers.

I never said bucks were not there, I said the opportunity for larger bucks was not what it is now.

I should have said "Estimate" was 2.5 - None the less, these opportunities were not there few years ago in this area to see let alone hunt and harvest.

The state does control deer population reduced through hunting, however population control is not their ONLY concern.

Our neighbor last year took a beautiful 2.5 (best guess was a 2.5) 8 pointer, field dressed at 179 pounds. He has one of those hanging scales in his garage. The other deer his son got was a 9 pointer, dressed at 165 pounds. This was in an AR area (3J). I actually saw the 8 during bow last year a few times, he was well out of my range.