nyantler

My drinkin' days are over as well.. maybe an occasional manhatten when at camp in the summer at night by the fire with a good cigar.. I woke up with that same sock in my mouth and an empty wallet a few years back too Doc and decided to take a different path. I must say.. it was a good ride for a while.. til the wheels fell off.

Yes Doc I think you said once that our passion sometimes gets the better of us... need to step back and take a breath once in a while and remember to have some fun and that we're all here because we love to hunt.

Four season you still are having trouble reading what my posts say.. but like I said I will agree to disagree with you on this subject. Good luck to you today and to everyone else out there. Have some fun.. thats what it's suppose to be.

The reason AR's are a big part of QDM is because buck age structure is the most screwed up part of most deer herds... and the hardest to get back in check because of the resistance from many hunters to pass on younger bucks.

Same to you Burt! But, do I have to wear a safety harmness while hunting from the ground?... I know I'm getting older but my balance is still good

This could be your year then!!! Just think of the story you'll have to tell if you kill a nice buck tomorrow!!

Likewise fellas... looking forward to hearing some of the hunting adventures.

I feel sorry that most of you never had the chance to witness or to have been a part of the QDM when it was first introduced to NY in the early to mid 90's... back then I did numerous seminars on QDM.. just trying to educate NY hunters on the subject.. My Magazine at the time featured the first regular columnist in NY from the QDMA... QDM talk back then was about what to do with the poorly managed whitetails in NY and how to combat the imbalance of the herd based on available NY habitat.. basically taking an existing herd and tweeking things a bit so that the habitat could sustain it .. but it seemed like the only way to get NY hunters to listen at the time was to tell them that the bi-product of these deer management programs was an increase in bigger antlered bucks... what a huge mistake.. that seemed to be the one thing that stuck... suddenly QDM was for creating bigger bucks... then from that came planting hybrid deer foods to increase antler size... hence the food plot craze... everyone and their brother was buying up Biologic and Whitetail Clover, etc.... in hopes off creating monster bucks. That is how qdm morphed into what you see today... when really it was just about trying to "establish, and maintain healthy balanced deer herds based on the habitat available"... that one sentence really is what the QDM concept is... somehow todays QDM groupies hung on to the newer trophy management version and have strayed from the latter version. If a area of land with optimum food source with all nutritional requirement could sustain lets say 50 deer.. Guys were now trying to bring that same area of land to double the carrying capacity.. mostly through food plotting... if you look at the early programs... supplimental food plots were usually additional browse to help deer through the winter or to improve protein levels... not to try and entice more and more deer to the land. If you look at most so called QDM programs they have become huge advertisements for food plotting... I know some of you guys really enjoy it but it was never suppose to be what it has become... I'm not trying to bad mouth food plots or trophy hunting i have and do both.. but i have never swayed from the original concept of what makes qdm such a good idea for the deer.

Very good Dave.. you seem to have a good handle on what its all about.. and I believe that a serious food plotter or land manager would say it the same way you just did... and not plant plant plant.. plant your ass off... it only took me one read of your post to see you know what you are talking about.. not true with certain others.. in fact for those others.. we have gone from planting for wildlife to "I have the oldest bucks and everyone wants to hunt here".. lol...but I think he put it best... he's doing HIS own kind of wildlife management.

There you go again.. I didn't call you a trailer park guy... I should have known you wouldn't understand the term trailer park knowledge... I love how you are threatened by somene maybe knowing a little more about something than you expected them to...makes it hard for you to spout out bullshit doesn't it?... and thanks but I have enough older bucks of my own thanks... i'm sure you have some older bucks but that doesn't mean you have the best hunting... but I can see how a guy like you might think they are the same thing.

All are dead deer..

Like some others here you need to learn to read.. it's getting tiresome listening to you create your own versions of what i have been saying.. again I am going to agree to disagree... you're wearing me down with your trailer park knowledge of wildlife management and whitetail deer... you can't even hold a conversation on the subject without name calling.. name calling is always a sure sign of someone losing a debate because he has no real arguement... for the record I have had supplimental food plots for 17 years... funny you never even thought to ask if I had food plots... but like I said you can teach an ape to plant food plots, but its hard to teach him how to mange the property correctly for wildlife. So keep planting planting planting and i'll keep managing my property.

Well said "G".. you are one of the few that have a handle on the overall picture... and it is quite obvious when you speak on the subject of deer management and evident in the quality of whitetails that you have produced on your land.

For your information I manage 1000 acres of land in central NY... I have been doing what you probably just started a few years ago since 1994... I was speaking on food plots before you even knew what they were... Just because I hunt the big woods doesn't mean I don't know whats going on in suburbia... what numbers are you talking about? I never mentioned any numbers... I was talking about carrying capacity for any give habitat... the more food available the greater the carrying capacity... you take away that food.. and now you have more deer than the land can sustain.. it's simple... and whats so far fetched about someone losing their job and becoming financially unable to continue maintaining a food plot.? you do what you want.. you will anyway.. but you might want to do some homework before accusing me of not being qualified to speak about food plots. I can teach an ape how to plant a food plot.. its harder to teach him how to manage food source properly.

Just look at the total number of bucks killed each year by all hunters and then look at the percentage of those deer that are young bucks... poacher numbers are far less than the total deer hunting population.. so if you do the math there is no way that poachers can possibly kill as many yearling bucks as hunters are... that does not mean that poachers don't have some impact on deer management in isolated areas.. just not enough to hurt a state wide AR plan... hunters alone have the greatest impact on buck age structure.

I don't think there are any states that have mandatory qdma.. just antler restrictions... mostly because you can't force guys to enhance their land. or even shoot "x" amount of does.. you can only lead the horses to water you can't make them drink. Education on proper deer management would far better serve the concept of QDM than mandatory rules.

Although poaching is an issue... nobody kills more yearling bucks than legal hunters.. poachers don't even come close.

Welcome WNY... there are many guys on here from your neck of the woods.. CNY here...enjoy!

Ok mister plant plant plant.. here is a scenario for ya.. you plant the hell out of an area.. you work hard and spend a lot of money on your food plots.. not caring about any of the natural plant communities.. the deer are eating away at your food plots... there is so much food they don't even think of feeding naturally.. in fact the young deer are so use to having so much food that they have never fed off the natural browse... all they know is that they come to your fields and the food is there... then one day you have an accident and can't work.. or you lose your job.. or even worse yet you become disabled and lose your job.. suddenly there is no money and you physically can't plant your crops anymore... all those animals depending on your sources of food... and remember.. food plotting increases the carrying capacity of even small pieces of land.. meaning way more deer than that land can handle naturally are feeding on your land because you planted way more than was necessary because you just wanted so much to help the wildlife... all those extra deer and other animals that depend ony on your food sources for there nutrition.. what do you think happens to them? You don't know do you?.. because you don't really care.. I mentioned before that I'm in favor of supplimental food plots... so I am definitely not against food plots, but I am against food plotters like you that think you are doing the deer a service... when you really have no idea what you're doing at all... it just makes you feel good to be part of a growing trend.

it's doe scent.. the same stuff you're going to use anyway probably...it wouldn't be a big deal if you wore the clothes as they are... except that you may not be able to stand yourself in the woods.. for that reason alone I'd wash them..... as for the bucks... I'd rather have them smelling that than smelling human scent...

It isn't manly to think that you need to kill a buck at all..thats the difference... like I've said many times before.. there are many many hunters that would rather cut their tongue out than have to tell their buddies they didn't get a buck.. and thats exactly what Grizz is talking about... somehow some hunters think they are less than a hunter because they didn't get a buck.. and nothing is farther from the truth... it is way harder to pass on a small buck than it is to kill it.

Welcome aboard Indian!!

and a good opinion that is Eddie.

Getting back to the original thread topic here... Joe.. this is a perfect example of what I was talking about.... you needed to do a bit more research on what and when you should be planting in your area... your food plot served no purpose in bettering wildlife... unfortunately for you it also isn't going to improve the hunting... doing a little homework before you go planting away might have make things go a little better. Food plotting is NOT just plant, plant plant...

My suggestion would be to market the product outside of NY first.. in my experience doing business with NY hunters ..NY hunters are not very receptive to new items and not a good market when it comes to new hunting related items... and it has gotten worse in the last decade. I think its a good idea and can remember a few times in the past when I shot a compound when I had a 2nd shot and couldn't get an arrow nocked in time.