Curmudgeon

Being the resident predatorphile, I need to point a couple of things. Pheasants are not native. They did not evolve in this part of the world. The stocked birds have no savvy whatsoever. Blaming predators for killing these "chickens" is like blaming the Johnstown flood on a leaky toilet in Altoona. As far as canned hunts, I have some Dorset sheep I want to liquidate. They can be quite sporting in their pasture. No hunting license is needed. They are polled Dorsets so no headgear. Sorry.

I have found that Google Earth is a very useful tool. Before we leave the house, I bring up my Google Earth deer hunting map on my big monitor and explain the plan to everyone. Since we tend to do short 1 - 1 1/2 hour drives with one pusher still hunting areas of 25-100 acres, we can do three in a morning. We will go over each drive on the map before going out. When a deer is killed, the person who is posted stays put until the drive is over. Everyone here usually has multiple tags, DMPs and DMAPs in addition to buck tags so he/she continues hunting. My Dad and I were out for a few hours today before I opened the Christmas tree store at 10. Over tea I asked him how many of our deer he thought we harvested with these drives where one person pushes to 1-4 others. He estimated about 1/3. I think that is a good number.

Safety is paramount. Know your people and know your hunting grounds. An intimate knowledge of what deer do in a place increases your odds exponentially. Remember the details of every success. Success is usually not an accident. Use the wind to confuse the deer. We will place the 4 or 5 guys in predetermined locations while one person still hunts around them. The person moving moves a little faster than a normal still hunter. He will work upwind of normal escape routes so the deer have no choice but to go cross wind or down wind if they move. When a deer moves into the wind and towards a hunter, it will often turn and move to one of the others. Certainly, not every deer will move but we are quite successful using this method. Hunting this way does not result in running deer and poorly chosen shots. Even if you jump a deer, it won't run far before walking past your hunters.

Instead of stocking pheasants - or "chickens" as one of my DEC friends calls them - why don't they just give us each one? Maybe they could process them with the money they save on stocking labor.

However, when one of these groups drive right over you, it's time to quit for the day.

Where are you hunting? Private or public land?

Down the rabbit hole is exactly where we went so I'm with you. Is a hunting license required for the "high-fence" deer hunts? For the confined boar hunts? If a hunting license is not needed, is it really hunting?

I've been on the feds radar since the Reagan administration. Since I was opposed to the dirty war in El Salvador, my name was on the CISPES mailing list when Reagan's guys broke into their office and stole it. I'm not a pacifist per se. I just think we should pick and choose our wars more carefully. Hunters are a more diverse group than some might believe. This photo is of a friend's car after a successful hunt. I hope you can read the bumper sticker.

They read all my emails anyway.

No. I think someone should pin a medal on that Snowden guy.

Not helpful. This is supposed to be about hunting but we can't seem to stay on topic. When discussing the death penalty or abortion the issue is who do you trust to make these decisions? Do you trust the government?

And, in a discussion on ethics......................................

I'm glad I live where I feel safe and - for the most part - can trust people. I choose to reject fear and suspicion of strangers, however, I realize that not everyone has that luxury. I don't watch TV but from what I have seen TV news is a machine for creating fear.

Where is an ECO when you need one?

Whoaa Seabiscuit! I was trying to keep focused on hunting. I didn't even want to discuss deer farming. Now we are arguing about abortion. If I could wag my finger at Belo I would - tsk, tsk, tsk. Thanks everyone. I think I learned what I wanted to know. The people who participated in this discussion do not equate legality with ethics. The people who have made that argument in other discussions, did not speak up.

Please, let's not have another row about deer farms. I just want to know if we can agree that standards of behavior should be higher than the minimum the law demands?

Reports are the Pharsalia SFs in Chenango County are not hunted heavily. You may need to get off the road a bit but the forests are big.

Doc - It's not the language of PETA. It's the language of people who respect the lives of animals they kill and eat. Have you read The Omnivore's Dilemma?

Add 2 DMAP tags per hunter on certain properties.

You forgot butt shots.

Wrong! The key word in my quote is "confined". There are modern farms that are industrial and clean. There are modern farms that are clean and humane. However, my daughter teaches at UNC in Greely, CO. Try visiting there. As they say in Fort Collins when the wind blows from the east, "it smells like Greely". I have other family in France. That is a totally different world. Say what you will about the French, there are no CAFOs there. This is an interesting thing to look at for anyone who hasn't given much thought to where those cuts in the supermarket come from: https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1680&bih=913&q=cafo&oq=cafo&gs_l=img.3..0l10.1333.2358.0.4017.4.4.0.0.0.0.1093.1093.7-1.1.0....0...1ac.1.58.img..3.1.1091.X6dwjamNJos

I mean anyone who fails to have any personal standards. People who believe if it is legal, it is right. For me, it is more likely the guys unloading their semi-autos. About 15 years ago the crew that formerly owned the property to my south - absentee landowners - opened fire on a small doe in a field. The doe was directly between them and me. I was in cover and didn't know they were there. There were 5 of them standing in a field next to their trucks. They each had a semi-auto shotgun (it was before rifles here). They each unloaded their shotguns at the doe. I got behind a BIG tree. There was a 15 or 20 second pause then 3 more shots. I walked the 250 yards to them, asked what was going on. They told me they had shot "at" a doe in the field. They had made no effort to move after shooting. I walked to the tracks in the shallow snow. I looked at them closely. Not a hair or a spot of blood could be found. 28 shots fired at a moving deer at 100 yards.

I prefer "personal" to "arbitrary". I was hoping some of the people who use "legal" as an equivalent to "ethical" would comment. They seem quiet.

And, some see breaking the law as a matter of conscience, or the ethical choice.

I agree with your statement. We will never all agree on individual practices. Using laws, however, as a basis for ethics is a race to the bottom. Re CAFOs - This is just to point out the hypocrisy of those who eat meat but consider hunting unethical.