phade

Hurst. States chief deer guy

Hurst is the states deer guru....

Im not borrowing a product i buy using my employee discount.

Is it theft? Its your own personal property. How long are terms valid for employee use only? The life of the product? Few companies define that because theyve accounted for the revenue leakage. 90 percent are still profiting anyway.

Their long term strategy outlined the mz. Full inclusion wouldnt take this level of bs to manuever. The same people who wanted it 10 years ago (mz) are still the people pushing for it except most of the rational people who were in the dept have retired on leaving these people as the ones who can make the call more easily.

The lack of transparency makes any assessment or understanding of the DECs decision nothing more than a crapshoot. No baseline numbers, no actual facts as they believe them to be in their PRs, and no plan layout. Just "general" fluid language that could be interpreted twelve ways to Sunday, so it fits their agenda to bring in MZ. They wont commit to any number because they are dead set on bringing in guns. Its their agenda and it is pretty clear, which is unfortunately the only clear thing about this situation. Let's just call a spade a spade. The DEC wants gun in bow to protect their own job security. Art in Region 8 probably has alot of heat from interests who want deer numbers lower and at the state level Jeremy is getting this on a more macro scale. They do not care about hunter interests despite trying to aay otherwise. The DEC said they responded to feedback given during the comment period. Has anyone gotten a response? Not me.

Every year, retailers release official annual reports along with their quarterly filings. In these reports are often factors driving business issues, you rarely if ever see employee discounting as an issue. Why? Because they have their system setup with controls. My MS final project was on Dick's Sporting Goods. It involved discussions with several VP including their risk and LP personnel. Employee discounting were blips on their radars because controls are in place that balanced acceptable risk vs. reward with sufficient controls in place. Companies with issues on employee discounting either eliminate or modify the discounts if material problems arise. A good example would be Chrysler in 2008 removing friend use of employee discounting because the company was in a liquidity issue.

And those are risk controls to limit reselling.There reaches a saturation point where one too many rugers or welding machines are bought. The company knows this and its built into the allowance of employee discounting. The set numbers are not made public to employees for obvious reasoning.

Employee discounts where profit can occur are built into the rates of discount offered to that employee. The revenue leakage caused by employee reselling is pretty minimal because of the tracking placed on employee purchases. Where it gets out of hand are mom and pop shops because they make poor business decisions with a policy and no risk controls.Smart companies know x amount per employee per x time period is offered that covers cost of goods sold or offers a minor profit to them.

We might be missing the real point here. Many of the most successful companies today encourage the use of their discounts and advantages. Seems like crazy talk but forward looking companies understand the value of goodwill.

Att and tmobile. Nyarcher what is your zip?

Actual text pic.

They are adequate stands. Not often seen here in NY. Sold more often in midwest and south, at places like Menards.

Its been a long time coming but a new cam manufacturer has released their cams to the public. I have been providing feedback, testing, and development the past six-seven months, specifically on their cell cam model, the PATRIOTic. I am excited to see what comes of it. Hopefully I helped build a winner.

Lol, go ask them that. See if they say that is their baseline. They wont. Know why? Because I have asked Jeremy, Art, and others. There isnt a number to state publicly.Again, there is no number as a baseline. You dont seem to understand that.

Where in their dmp allocation this year or in their statement does ir say how many does need to be killed?Objective is an objective, not a baseline goal. Thats a substantial difference and basic Business 101 knowledge. For bucks, if its 1.4 per sq mi, but actuality is 1.2, it might not meet the ideal objective yet remain within their window of acceptance. We have zero idea of stated targets nor their acceptable basement number. The DEC has not stated what needs to be harvested as a goal. There is no way for bowhunters or any group to meet a goal where the expectation is not set. Stubby if they issue 10k permits in a wmu that is not what they set as their goal. It does not mean they want 10k filled.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/press/102860.html So here is their statment. Again, what are their needs? They just say they are not being met in the antlerless only units. Not on single freaking number to hit. Not one. You are not meeting our goal but we are not stating what it is.

So say we shoot 5k more does in the impacted WMUs. How many of those would be shot in gun by the same people slinging the arrow? Probably 90%. They issue 140k DMPs in only three of these units in '15. 140,000.....5k harvest? Not even a needle mover according to them. Dec says we need alot more does shot. How many is alot? How can we meet that goal? You are saying this is on bowhunters not shooting does? Complete BS. Tell me, has the DEC said we need to shoot 5,000 more does here? 10? 30,000? No. How can bowhunters be held accountable their actions when the DEC does not identify the number we need to shoot as bowhunter? The first rule in anything business related (this is a business for them) is to set CLEAR expectations. Shoot more does. Sounds simple right? BS. How many is "more"? Bowhunters, we need you to hit a target of 10,000 antlerless this season in 8H. That's a clear expectation set. If the DEC stated this, and said look, shoot 10k or else you'll have an antlerless season next year. Boom, I George Foreman guarantee bowhunters would let hell unleashed to fill the tags. Ohio issues WEEKLY harvest updates. This could be done to track in-season to monitor progress, too. I'm still waiting to see anyone from the DEC set a clear expectation or anyone trying to pin this on bowhunters tell me how many "more" is. This is a DEC agenda and any hunter who doesn't see that is implicit in churning our ranks and continuing to support an agency that is clearly inept.

Kind of sort of. What they do is cap how many dmps you can get in that area. Makes zero sense.Also, they lowered the allocations for dmps from 14 to 15 in most or all of the wmus impacted. We have a problem, but its not as bad, but were still going to implement a season like this...to do what? Its much easier sell if they had raised allocations and removed limits. Instead there are limits and a reduced allocation. Not consistent with their story.

I don't think you get it. Alot of people are going to take themselves out of the game to avoid such an encounter or because of the lack of opportunity. It's going to drive down participation, which in turn results in reduced harvest, which in turn results in that sweet stainless muzzleloader barrel going right up our collective rear-end in 2016.

LOL, I was even mad at myself for buying the Vortek UL thinking it didn't make sense to have that and only hunt 1 or 2 times with it. Now, it makes zero sense if it's not going to be used. That TC will make a pretty gun to hang over the fireplace though. Won't do much for killing bucks in all likelihood.

I've seen you state this several times on these threads - there really are not going to be many people wanting to go hunt doe-only during the MZ/late archery season. If you think participation rates are going to be high, I'd like to understand why. The only people who will be out there are the ones who really are light in the freezer themselves after a poor season. Most hunters are going to say screw it, I am not getting up in this weather and snow to only shoot a doe. And, MZ season is as late as it can be this year, there will be xmas parties, etc. that weekend. Plus, if there are that many does really running around as they say, there's not much excuse to be low on the freezer at that point, right? MZ participation is going to be abysmal. If this becomes a permanent thing in my hunting areas, I'll probably offload my MZ gear. It doesn't make sense to hunt 1-2 days with it (weekends only or an afternoon off) for a doe.

How many does need to be shot in these impacted units then? Can the DEC tell us this? No. Can you? They said to shoot does - did they say to shoot another 500, 5,000, or 50,000? No. This isn't on bowhunters or muzzleloaders shoulders. It's on the DEC with an agenda and they're not concerned with screwing over groups to get there. Yet they say doe population is the problem and they are enacting regs in the seasons of least effective tools to immediately make an impact. That's an agenda. If they really wanted doe levels down, they'd be going to gun hunters because that's where 100k DMPs were filled last year. 12k antlerless were shot across the entire state in bow in 2014. How is it possible to even make a dent in doe numbers using such a tool? Double it...heck triple it. Why don't we even multiply it by 5 (60k). That's still half of what was made available for DMP drawing this year in only three of the WMUs that fall within the antlerless seasons. There is no feasible way bowhunters can meet any unpublished or unspecified goals of the DEC. There is no transparency at all. You better shoot does and meet our goal, but we're not going to tell you what our goal is, so good luck. Sure, sounds like its bowhunters who are the problem. Sheesh.

Quotes from Hurst earlier this year... If an antlerless-only option within the archery and late muzzleloader seasons doesn’t give DEC the desired harvest in those units, the next step – outlined in the state’s Deer Management Plan – would be the implementation of a special antlerless-only muzzleloader season in select WMUs. “If antlerless harvests continue to be insufficient, we must anticipate alternative strategies for increasing antlerless harvest in specific WMUs,” Hurst said in his pre-season report ahead of last year’s deer season. “We will be watching the 2014 harvest closely and are preparing to make targeted changes where needed in 2015, as outlined in DEC’s Management Plan for White-tailed Deer in New York State (2012-2016).”

Go to Idaho and see what the hunters there think of this. Stark contrast. I also have some acquaintances in WI and MN - let me tell you - it crushes hunting when they move in. One of them, in MN, is one of the best hunters I've ever talked with. Hardcore to the Nth degree, talking big north woods hunting. His hunting areas went devoid of deer let alone bucks worth chasing last year. He was forced to travel as a result and hunting only about 20% of the time he normally did. They are very effective killers, but really, they are likely too effective.