phade

This post is confusing to me. Hunters can't understand and get on board until the info is there to do so. The DEC shoving this down our throats is the lowest hole in the bucket. It is NOT hunter attitudes, hunter mindset, or anything of that nature. You can't expect to get buy-in when there is nothing pitched to sell. It's shot through a cannon, instead, and we take what we are given. Common sense dictates peer accepted models as the first things to look at and consider when trying to resolve a problem that's not unique - and much to the people who yell otherwise, our problem nor our stakeholders are unique. Not too many recent antlerless-only seasons implemented in archery (where gun seasons also exist) around the nation to correct a supposed dire straits population issue. I have on the other hand, seen OTC, DMP or doe tag management, reduced cost tags, landowner incentives, moves to OBR or shifts on when bucks tags can be filled, mz seasons set outside of other deer seasons, and so on and so forth. I haven't yet seen any agency that says, "Whoah, doe numbers are out of control in these areas. We know what to do! Let's enact an antlerless archery season, that'll really knock them down. And, if not, which they won't because we aren't telling them what numbers need to be shot, we'll stick guns in bow season instead of adding opportunity for sportsmen."

More evidence of closed loop thinking. What data or information proves people don't want to shoot does in that area? The DEC said not enough does are being shot in that area. Big difference there, Doc. The WMU DMP success percentage rate for the antlerless only areas are pretty much in the middle 30% of the bell curve - proving that not only are hunters in that area within the typical range, but that because those areas have higher DMP issuance, the success rate being in the middle means they're shooting MORE does by volume. The WMUs IDed for antlerless sit atop the WMUs for DMP harvest numbers. They need to open up the flood gates on tag management, incentivize property owners to open ground, review/remove the practice for charging for DMPs, remove the limitation on consignments (the whole idea of consignment is silly), use the right tools (which is what they are doing long-term to our dismay), and then work in other practical management practices like OBR and/or other incentive/pro-management techniques to better manage the resource and hunter retention. Instead we have buffoons in office doing what they're doing and getting people to successfully talk in circles like the answers don't exist in any appreciable form because NY is some enigma that makes it different than other states so much so that nothing learned, proven, or peer-accepted, is transferrable. My advice to those people, get over yourselves. NY is no different, the hunters are no different, and you still pull your camo britches up one leg at a time.

The fact its not temporary, like logging, will make changes to their behaviors, patterns, and maybe even beds. Development is a game changer. They'll adapt just fine for the most part, but you will need to be aware of that adaptation.

A 14 year old kid getting into hunting has way more things to distract him/her than a 10,11, or 12 yo.

x2. I think the MO is simply to complain, be a devil's advocate, and just be a stick in the mud so much that any appreciable discussion goes nowhere because that is the desired destination, when clearly, we're at a crossroads where doing nothing should no longer be an option on the table. Even self-pitched ideas are talked into circles.

Night pic.

I hunt in arguably one of the better areas for NY. I've also hunted mediocre Midwest areas (by their standards) and plenty of mid-atlantic/southern areas. Are we better than say Florida? Yes. I'll take that mediocre Midwest hunting any day of the week over NY. I also do not believe for one second we as a state are more fickle than other states' hunter populations. Southerners running dogs, Midwesterners baiting and supplemental feeding, etc. They're just as fickle as us, no better, no worse. Yet other states' entities can get stuff done.

With all of the couples that I know, the ones who have one in a solid private sector job and one in a local/county/state/fed job (teaching, highway dept., gov't offices or depts., etc.)....they seem to be able to live well overall. It balances the pay vs. the long-term benefits.

10x better, too...

What we believe and they believe are resoundingly different. Even if we're right, we're wrong.

DEC also is on record saying that the check station and logistics are too costly in their response to the bonus DMP/WMU trials.

Get a few empty 2 liter soda bottles and fill w/water and freeze. Toss them in a cooler and if you connect, once you field dress, toss them in the cavity to help cool the meat.

I do not let it hang. Shot the buck in my avatar on Oct. 1 and finally got to bed well after midnight to be up at work at 7 a.m. No ability to wait on processing unless you have a cool room/freezer.

Yeah, I guess my phone and feed blowing up of all those dead velvet Kentucky bucks is just a fluke.

I get a ton of PMs, texts, and emails about cell cams. I have been working with and on cell cams for several years now. The curve is getting to more user-friendly cell cams, but the cost of entry is going up with MSRPs between $399 and some at $500. A lot of people want to try it, but are intimidated by the price and/or knowledge needed to set up and run these cams. If you an established forum member and are interested in dipping your toes into the water with a cell cam, please PM me your email address. I have a line on a cell cam that will meet most anyone's needs and the cost is less than half of mass market cams' MSRP today. This opportunity came about based on my knowledge of cell cams and also, as I hope many people here are familiar with, "through a guy I know." It is not a get rich scheme or anything, but passing along a deal, as I have to other forum members in the past. Actual text pic from my wife's dog grooming room this morning...

Working on a furnace replacement or repair over the next few days, so it's just a constant reminder that a furnace is a highly valued piece of equipment in wNY. Keeps me from complaining about the heat at least.

I've made a baiting/trespassing call once in the past few seasons and the ECO went out there and resolved the situation despite not being able to "catch" the guy doing it. Word spread, the corn disappeared, and the stand was gone.

Use the D links to join the stands and then use electrical tape around them to ensure they don't rattle.

My understanding from discussions on this, the trial areas simply moved WHEN people shot their doe, and didn't drive up harvest numbers. Once the either sex is issued, the bonus implications stopped. Thus, people would shoot their doe at the time that allows for the either sex.

That is a good stand for the price with the rails/arms.

Fixed.

I'm not talking about the merits, I'm saying the DEC has already gone on record that they will not implement changes to the way they dole out tags. It's more of the shove it and take it message they cast.

I've shot a few with spots still visible, usually along the back ridgeline, well into Oct. They are pretty good table fare.

I guess we need to start counting on the muzzleloader season in archery, eh?

I had a Catt. Co. sheriff post not one, but several photos of some nice velvet bucks hitting a trophy rock to my FB trail cam page. The he proudly proclaims them to be taken in Catt. Co. If that doesn't give scope to the weight of mineral licks, I don't know what does. Agreed on the stupid move of trying to kill the apple tree. I've had the "luxury" of experiencing hunting over bait/licks, and running dogs, and hunting over or around food plots in my hunting "career" so far. Being in a supposed over-population situation in parts of NY, this fear of point-source attraction seems outweighed by the dire straits that required adding antlerless only seasons.