phade

definitely agree in the 3,4, and beams. Good buck,

He will be much bigger in most cases. July puts on more inches than any other month.

Never try, you never get there...understand beds early, become a better hunter earlier...

Hunt on the high side of the saddles there leading up into the hedge row and the other creek by the cattle fencing. Chances are they're poking out on either side of the hedgerow/ditch. Find which side and hunt on the saddle above it on the good wind side. The topo clearly points out this is happening and just reinforces some of the locations. The tough part is as you say, there is going to be some bedding there, but I actually think they might also bed higher in the elevation because it's on the leeward side. Down along the corn doesn't give visibility where they can see but cannot smell. Higher in the elevation, they can look down into the are they can't smell.

The saddles/mini benchs on the left at good too. look at where they are...right at the cattle fencing and where the other point is in the woods/corn.

That's really detailed. Good job on it. There's some new takeaways on that map. I'm sure others will chime in on it before I have a chance to.

Nice job. Can you get a topo map and overlay it? The topo will help since there are elevation changes with the creek. That changes some of the feedback I and others would offer. Let the cam soak where it is. You'll get some deer traffic, but look for more subtle places where they might cross the ditch/hedgerow, too. Consider setting the cam where you saw the single doe walking the hedgerow. Angle the cam down the lane a bit so it is not perpendicular with the corn. This will give you some potential to establish a pattern of travel (to and from and what times).

I understand your POV, but I think he should charge in full steam. Who cares if he over-hunts it? He is going to, no matter what. He's going to make mistakes. He's a new hunter. People learn from mistakes. If you never get into that situation, you'll never learn. Life is 10% education, 20% exposure, and 70% experience. Hunting is no different. Being comfortable with mistakes is a long-term growth strategy. Being fearful of mistakes is a short term finger in the dike.

The consideration about woods to ag makes me think they're really looking at soil quality and carrying capacity vs. the traditional regions. One of the rare things I like about it so far. If you look at the map, it largely follows soil qualities and ag concentration.

While I whole-heartedly agree on glassing and its benefits, I disagree a bit on this in his situation. He should go in now, make one foray, make it count on the scouting and intel, set his cams, and get out. His fields other than the fenced cattle lot, are corn. Unless lanes are open enough to glass, he isn't seeing much of anything in the fields with corn being 5ft tall now. Corn is a blessing and a curse.

And if he doesnt, he has beef behind it, lol. Kidding of course.

No problem. The others hunting it and those hunting around it are a factor we cant consider so some of this may be off because deer might be responding to the pressure as moog pointed out. In a perfect world, id hope like heck people dont hunt that creek area and you have a honey hole there.

The smartest thing I've read that I've seen you type out. Well done. Two data points of blaming the guide starts to raise eyebrows in my mind.

Is this the bear issue or the lion? If its the bear, it seems eerily similar to the details of the lion hunt (trusting the guide).

So what is your point? The regs are what they are at this point. You would have known that to be the case the very first day the "last two weeks" reg was released because the DEC posts out future season dates publicly.

Not necessarily every 50 yards, but those are the spots to look into. This parcel is a rare shape and hunts larger as a result. The creek area is bound to be a spot that could produce big bucks year in and year out during the rut phases.

I am not a fan of sanctuaries unless you own enough ground where you never once say "I wish I could hunt in my sanctuary." I've only met a few people with that much land here in NY. This isn't the kind of acreage where that seems plausible. The whole area is nothing but funnels and bedding, anyway. Maybe you stay out of areas until timing and conditions are right, but that's not a sanctuary. I encourage new hunters to hunt beds right off the bat in their "career." Make mistakes, learn from the experiences. Not learning how to bed hunt or the importance of buck bedding and what actually goes on in that process is probably the #1 thing that will result in a much fuller wall when all else is equal.

Let me repeat that I really like this property. It's very huntable. Pressure as noted changes things, so you must take that into consideration. Second, I left out the hedge row based on the fact you said it was a ditch. I summarize my thoughts on it in two words - hunt it. Set-up in between two corn field this fall, this area will have significant deer traffic and will most certainly result in some potential beds. In ag land, nothing beats a swale irrigation ditch or thin hedge row for bedding. The biggest bucks I have ever jumped in ag land have almost always been around wooded points into corn or ditches/hedgerows/breaks between corn fields. Second, this creek provides ultimate access and could serve as a potential hard break with which you could potentially hunt more often and pressure without doing damage. The key is access. In theory, this creek is essentially in a large funnel. On a W or SW wind, which is probably predominant, you can access the creek at the N or S points and never set foot on the ground west of the creek. This would allow you to hunt the heck out of it come rut time. You burn minimal ground, even though the area east of the creek is also part of that funnel. A is overlooked because it is near the road and at a bend of homes. If deer can cross that major road, this adds another dimension to the funneling effect. Either side of the creek needs to be inspected. I, H, J, and E are all the same story, part of the funnel. Both sides of creek need to be inspected. Ideally with a W or SW or even NW wind, you can have a stand on the east side of the creek and shoot across it, or vice versa for other winds. Walk the length of the creek and look for crossings. There are likely crossings around A I and H because they lead to woods either across the street or the bend in the woods. B is a good area funneling deer between the corn, the ditch/hedgerow, and the creek. You may find beds here and in between B and J. F is a little point in the woods where deer will cross the field. If your drawing is accurate, there is no corn directly above F and if so...that area is going to have alot of action similar to the ditch if there is swale or unfarmed ground. If the whole field is corn, meaning that little open area above F is too, it's still going to get some action. C is another similar story only it adds the funneling effect of the ditch/hedgerow. D plays on the cattle being fenced in. Deer are lazy and will take the quickest/easiest route to get to another spot in some situations, which is why funnels kill. Deer will transgress the corn, exiting and entering. The cattle fencing pinches down a spot right where the deer will first have a chance to get to the corn. As a bonus, I'd walk the entire line where the corn meets the cattle fencing. This likely may result in swale grass or travel routes. It might even not get alot of pressure or visibility to hunters, and you may find beds there. G would be better more WSW than it is, but borders are what they are. You have a double inside corner pinching down, creating another prime spot. With SW winds, you might catch bucks moving through that funnel. I would expect if there is hunting on the adjacent property, that there is someone in that pinch, so look out for signs of pressure that might be forcing the deer to one side of the pinch, etc. It might tip you off to making a play on that info based on the pressure from that hunter.

Sorry, but I just about lost it LOL in my office on that one.

Phenomenal property to hunt! Wow...does that ever lay out nice. Some good advice here so far.

And not worthy of making public knowledge that they aren't pressured as much.

I didn't watch the video. Scary, huh? I just know that this study is a modern reincarnation of the work Harry Jacobson did and knowing what Grant markets to.

When you hire a guide, you are still liable for your actions, even if you unknowingly follow the guide and he breaks the law - as you do. We hear of this alot with deer outfitters. The big pigeonhole here is that the government is saying the guide and the landholder did not have a lion tag allocation, meaning it doesn't matter if he shot Cecil or another lion, on or off the park. It means that the shooter, the guide, and the landholder are guilty of shooting a lion without a tag or whatever the legal term is. I think that is the leg they are standing on, and it sounds like the guide admitted a "mistake." Now, the tough part is that this hunter is getting the short end of the stick. It is quite possible he did all of the research and hired a guide he felt legal, etc. But at the end of the day, if he didn't have a tag, even if unaware, he's probably going to pay the piper. Here's the caveat to all of this, some information, and I am unsure of the source, has noted that this dentist has been involved in a bear-related poaching incident in Wisconsin where the bear was reported killed in a different area than the tag indicated/was vaild. I am not sure if he pled guilty or if that component really doesn't have legs and is just creative writing. But, that info is out there. If there is truth to him being involved in it and proven/guilty, it doesn't set a good track record in my mind as to whether he knew he was poaching a lion or didn't have a tag.

Age and nutrition and then genetics last for most laymen in free range whitetails. But, I will say this - top end (ie 175+) bucks grow in typically smaller confined areas, even within larger areas of "good buck" potential. Areas that have produced a giant typically produce another and another and another through the years, whereas ten miles down the road, bucks top out less (still very good bucks) and typically do not have bucks of that giant antler size. There is a difference in good bucks and great bucks. There's nothing conclusive about this video and there is a long thread already on the QDMA forum where even there people are disagreeing. The video dances around making conclusions and leaves it open to persuasive interpretation (like marketing). What they're really doing is marketing to the 99% of hunters who care about management but likely are cornholed into limitations within their ground that they'll never be able to escape - meaning their expectations surpass reality. That has been part of the problem with QDM and the association has been smartly spending alot of time trying to re-set the expectations for the typical practitioner. Even if you have 500 acres in one parcel, your best deer might still not be a top end buck despite all of your best efforts. Yet, it's possible a 20 acre honeyhole has a history of offering encounters w/giants. But, the one common thing I see, is many land managers think all of the blood sweat and tears will result in Booners. Then they get burned out.

I have enough to get through this year. But between maybe hunting the midwest next year or my annual trek to Virginia, i will probably stop to buy at rural king or southern states.