phade

Sounds like....you are.......rambling about an altogether.....different issue, no? AR and OBR.......doesn't have a single............thing to do with people...................hunting on other people's....................................................tags. That's a seperate......................................................................................................issue. Jeremy Hurst is also a biologist.........................................................................................................................................................and not a DEC admin/politico office jockey per say. I'm sure if he were not shackled, the system would be.........................................................................................................................................................................................................different than it is now. AR, while most people believe, will cure cancer, kick Obama out of office, balance the national debt, fix the housing crisis, and bring Elvis back to eating 'nanner and PB sandwhiches, it will not lead to a change in how people hunt on other's tags. Jeremy has never noted to me whether he supports OBR, actually, so I don't know his thoughts on that topic. OBR won't get Obama out either, or any of those things, but let's try to stay on topic, AR and the like.

The number show only about 5-10k hunters take two bucks a year here in NY. Sounds absurdly low, right? Well, it is. My talks with Hurst, et al, about such scenarios is that most hunters will plug the first buck in bow, usually a dink, and then "hold out" for a mature buck in gun season. Or same theory goes with a small buck in gun, and then a mature one in late season. Not many people take mature bucks in general regardless of the state - because they're hard to kill. Hence, not many people take the two bucks. Some no doubt take two dinks...for whatever the reason. But, this is opinion on my part, the bigger % of damage likely comes from the above scenario about taking antler and then holding out. Limit it to one buck, and all of a sudden, people end their season early, or they start becoming super selective without that 1.5 y/o bone being tagged. Most 1.5s are going to be passed voluntarily.

There's a huge difference Joe. OBR is CHOICE. Mandatory AR is MANDATORY. The objective for OBR is to create a more structurally sound "deer herd" as a whole while at the same time employing the freedom of choice. Mandatory AR advances 1.5 to 2.5 as its goal, by way of mandating and removing choice. A joker willing to break the law under AR is a joker willing to break the law under OBR. A joker is a joker is a joker is a joker, regardless of the situational law. If a hunter chooses to shoot a 1.5 buck in bow, then so be it. They chose to do so. Their season is "over" at their own doing. I suspect the following season, that 1.5 voluntarily gets a pass by most hunters, and the ones who don't...are likely the ones who don't/cannot devote the time, energy or resources to being selective, or they simply enjoy hunting for their own reasons that lead to a 1.5 being a trophy or worthy kill for them. People become super-selective when they only have one buck tag to burn. Ohio doesn't seem to have much issue with it, nor does Kentucky, or Indiana, etc. etc. etc. And those states, while not perfect, have just as many brown it is down hunters as we do (at least in %), but they're light years ahead of NY in terms of management AND record books, yet if the average joe wants to shoot a spiker, he can. Choice and education will work. Resistance...yep...it'll be there for every change. People don't like change. There are four stages to it, including the biggest, "what is in it for me?" If you can manage change in a base - you are likely very successful in life. Move gun season opener to Monday after T-day, 9 day season, one week with a weekend following. OBR. Instant turnaround compared to prior results when paired with a legit doe management plan. Managing DMPs a little better - that's a topic that needs a ton of work, moreso than buck harvest class imo.

No doubt tough for the small guy, but not taking the stand, blaming big business, and not being accountable, tells me that vendor doesn't deserve my money. If he would have said, I understand the position, I'm a small vendor, I believe in the right, etc. I would have bought one.

I love bows. For several years, I was in the mode of buying or trading copy work with manufacturers for new bows. I got a '10 Z-28 and I really liked it. I decided I was going to stick with that bow, as I really liked it and it shot well. No need to switch right now. Lets me focus on the hunting and perfecting the shooting as opposed to the bow setup, gadgets etc. Most of the more successful mature buck hunters I know seem to hold onto a bow that works for them for several years. I rarely see one "outside" of the industry swapping bows each year and being successful unless they are abnormally wealthy. That said, the Strother line looks solid. The Elites appear to be a good refinement.

Went to the show Saturday morning, and was in as the doors opened to beat the masses. Overall, great show compared to past ones there, and good for a NY show. Hope to see some increased offerings from vendors, such as Sportsman Liquidators. They have a ton more for sale at Harrisburg, but still, they had what I wanted to buy there. Anyhow, on two occassions, I heard to me what were disheartening conversations. Both were small time vendors, the antler handle knife guy, and then an outfitter (northern one, selling caribou/bear/something like that). I simply overheard them when checking out the respective vendor and the vendor was having a conversation with another vendor or customer. Both vendors were ticked off at the big sponsors and vendors at Harrisburg. Apparently both of these guys had booths there. The outfitter said "I don't care if they sell guns there (Harrisburg) or not, really I don't. I care about selling hunts." The knife guy was much more vocal. "I lost $14k and I'm pissed. All of the big vendors like Cabelas started this, they pulled out and screwed me over. Its the big vendors' fault. My wife and I had to scramble to find more shows to recover from this because we had no plans. I can't believe they would do this (expletive) to us and screw over the sportsman"...and he went on and on. Never once taking account for his own business practices/strategy, and never once saying anything about the second amendment. He also made it clear he was not boycotting. Now, let me say I am first and foremost understanding at the pinch that happened with the small vendors. No doubt. I sympathize. But, I draw the line at not taking a stand, not taking accountability for your own darn actions by having a singular revenue stream and no back-up, and then blaming others, all without saying anything about the 2A issue. I'll be honest, I was at the knife guy's booth and looking really hard at buying one. In fact, I thought the quality was quite good and considered buying one as a lifetime "gutting" knife, as I lost mine a few years ago and made due with mass produced commercial knives. I heard him say he was going to be a first-time vendor at H-burg, and I immediately started reaching for the one I liked to buy it, as a show of support....and then I realized he didn't boycott the show, and then he went on his tirade. Needless to say my money stayed in my pocket. I really couldn't say anything either, honestly, because I was shocked at his lack of accountabiity and the view of the bigger picture. I had to walk away after that conversation ended so I didn't get brought into it.

Tarjac is indeed a good choice.

for a ny show....pretty good.

fifieldseednfeed.com or wingsupply with the thanks10 code for discount...cheapest places I know if right now. The 13 CB have SMS functions where you can control some features via text. While I find it pretty neat, I haven't been able to justify it over the cost savings of the 12 model.

Access is going to be your biggest issue in Rochester as far as hunting goes, unless you own. Webster offers residents a hunting program. Pretty neat. The hunting is good, but again, access is hard to come by. And, land prices there are pretty high comparatively (east side is generally the wealthier side of Roc). You have good hunting all around that area though...you can pretty much drive any direction and run into it (sans the city itself and Lake Ontario). If you can tolerate a 1/2 hour drive, there's plenty of less costly hunting land. Cottontails are making a comeback in my hunting areas. Pretty surprised.

This is indeed the reason why 1.5s can have 6, 8, etc. points. I have a 12 point 1.5 on the wall from my early bowhunting days.

I think he meant a 4pt a side.

Wooly, when you have battery issues like that, turn the cam on in a closet and let it sit for 5 min. Then take one of your digital point and shoot cams and turn that baby on. Walk into ths room and have the cam pointed at the array. You will see the array fire on the screen of the digital camera. Chances are the array is sticking on after it fires the first time, killing batteries.

The 99 cam is not a good deal at all. Its a cr model. Thats essentially the primos 35 old style with weak blacklight power. It is marketed as 30 feet and people at best get 25. A whole host of other issues. If i were trying to cheap out as much as possible and get a black flash, id buy a refurb original blackout from natchez for 109 or two for 99 each. But really, no sense as the primos blackout cams are mediocre performera. Better to save the cash or spend 170 or so on a black 60 on clearance. Only other decent bf is the bushell but really it only performs great in video. Pics are very subpar to the black 60. The 13 black 60 is feature rich...if it is reliable thats a smoking cam. But, cost is up there. Better off dealing with a clearance 12.

That info is in the original post. Att plan via go phone.

The dec has clearly stated that ar plays no role in benefiting their plan from a biologocal perspective. If a majority wants it, why are there 1.5s being taken. Surely they are not practicing what they preach.

No doubt, that would require a 4 a side rule here to be effective in terms of advancing the 1.5s. I think that is downright crazy.

Belo - you should know to really look into the numbers. The one box about % change of 2.5 take...that's the one you REALLY want to pay attention to as it mitigates macro changes to a degree. Hunters are 2.089 times as likely to take a 2.5 or greater in the non-AR zone. Hunters in the AR zone are 2.1 times likely to take a 2.5 or greater. This is in comparison to the starting point. In science, that's a dead heat.

I would rather have freedom of choice. I don't care how big a buck's rack really is, truthfully, unless it's record portions. If I kill a 3.5...I kill a fairly wise buck in NY. If I kill a 4.5+...then I hit a home run. If I kill a 1.5 6 point, all I have done is kill a dink. If I kill a 1.5 8 point, all I have done is kill a dink. If I kill a spike, I have killed a dink. Again, that's personal. Thus, I would rather have freedom of choice.

Let me pose this, then. If AR is so important to QDM, why do you hardly ever see a points-based restriction on a private management plan? Outside of Texas/high fence, generally, people go by age instead. I've never been to a managed property where the "quality" intention was spurred by AR. Surely, big difference between the masses and private. But the premise remains, it's not the tool most people opt for. So, if quality really is the goal from a government perspective (hypothetically in our state's case), then AR isn't the answer, even en masse.

Original Cam Body, takes D, and is the CR model. CR = close range = 25 ft max = pass. Lots of blur.

Personally, it doesn't matter to me in that situation. As long as it was a gun or carried the realistic similarity, the intruder runs the risk. Intruder is still in the house and the owner has no egress, even in NY.

Did you join the local QDMA chapter? Are you a member of the QDMA? I get a sense you throw spaghetti on the wall and see what sticks.

The question still remains. Now what? You simply cannot have a void such as this. There's three arms to the hunter's show circuit - SHOT, ATA, and ESOS. Only ESOS is public/consumer. If nobody steps up to the plate, there's a BIG void.

People screenshotted the sponsor list with Progressive being the lone remaining sponsor listed. All other sponsors pulled out. Reed said the cause was one sponsor. Not much of a leap there. Especially considering Progressive and it's creators are known supporters of HSUS, etc.