Need help-question regarding private gun sales

[Dr Ignominious Death]

I have an old Hi-Point 9mm carbine (stock) that I am hoping to sell tomorrow to another NY resident. My question is it legal for me to sell this firearm to another NY resident?

From what I have read, it is legal to perform private sales and I do not need to have a license to sell or need perform a background check on this individual. However, I have read the state laws (I'm far from a lawyer) and from what I gather, the Hi-point may meet the definition of an "assault rifle" because it is 1. an semi-automatic rifle, 2. has a pistol grip 3. has a detachable magazine. If the hi-point carbine is considered an assault rifle, that's one sorry AR.

So, I don't know if anyone has any advice or legal knowledge if I can legally sell this gun or not. The "exchange" goes down tomorrow. I do plan on writing up a bill of sales with his name, the weapon's manufacturing number, getting his NY license number and having him sign that piece of paper. Any other recommendations? Thanks.

Derek

Edited December 27, 2012 by Dr Ignominious Death

[WingNut]

From what I've read, it needs to have two or more of the following additional features:

Folding Stock

Pistol Grip

Bayonet Mount

Flash Suppressor or threaded barrel able to accept a suppressor

Grenade Launcher

You may want to ask them if they've been convicted of a felony or misdemeanor involving domestic

violence.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I am thinking how to phrase this. If that gun is legal to own in NY then it is legal to sell in a private sale. I would hope as an owner you would know if it was legal in it's current configuration.

I have sold long guns and I ask for info off the driver's license and make duplicate bill of sales with the info you mentioned. Honestly a question about felony or misd is a waste and only as good as the word of the person buying the gun.

[WNYBuckHunter]

If you are that worried about it, go through a local gun shop and have the shop do a background check on the buyer. Make the buyer pay the fee.

To answer your question though, as long as the gun is NY compliant (which Hipoints are unless it has a folding stock, or some other "evil feature" besides the removable mag and pistol grip), you can sell it in NY, or our of state. An out of state sale would require an FFL. You can ship to a buyer inside NY through the USPS.

[WNYBuckHunter]

BTW, here are the NY AWB laws

All of NY state's laws can be found on the internet here:

http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/me...MMONQUERY=LAWS

The laws pertaining to firearms are in the Penal Code under article 265.

What is an assault rifle?

To be an assault rifle and therefore illegal in NY state, the firearm must be:

1. Semiautomatic

2. Accept a detachable magazine

3. Manufactured after September 14, 1994

4. Has two or more of the following:

• Telescoping or folding stock
  
• Pistol grip
  
• Bayonet mount
  
• Flash suppressor (this does NOT include a muzzle brake) OR a threaded barrel
  
• Grenade launcher
  

Some common questions:

Q. How do I pin a collapsible stock to be compliant with the ban?

A. Although there is no official ruling the accepted method among shooters is that it must be fixed in place in a way that it is permanent and not readily restorable to be collapsible. A popular method is to drill and blind pin the stock to the buffer tube. Many people will epoxy over the pin to make it even more permanent.

Q. So if my rifle is pre-ban I can have any accessories I want on it?

A. Yes, you can have as many features or accessories as you want, even those on the list of "evil" features listed in the AWB.

Q. How can I tell if my rifle is pre-ban?

A. The only way to be sure is to verify this with the manufacturer by giving them your serial number.

Q. If I permanently attach a threaded muzzle brake is my barrel legal?

A. Again, there is no ruling at the state level for this but under the expired federal AWB, yes, as long as it is a muzzle brake and not a flash hider.

Q. How do I attach a muzzle brake permanently to comply with the ban?

A. Although there are no official NY State rulings on the matter there was a ruling by the BATF during the federal AWB. This ruling said that seam welding the brake around at least half of the circumference, four tack welds equally spaced around the circumference or using a solder with a melting point of at least 1,100 degrees F to attach a muzzle brake, cap or or barrel extension satisfy the requirement of making the device part of the barrel and. It goes on to state that by using these methods to cover the barrel threads would make the barrel considered as not having a threaded muzzle. Note that the BATF ruling specifically states that industrial adhesives are not acceptable methods of attaching a muzzle device. Another generally accepted method is to drill a hole through the brake and part way into the barrel, insert a pin and weld over it the pin.

Q. How can I tell if a muzzle device is a flash hider or a muzzle brake?

A. The best way is to ask the manufacturer. Many have had their muzzle brakes tested by the ATF and can provide you with a letter stating that they (the ATF) do not consider it to be a flash hiding device. Typically a flash hider has an open end, the full size of the hider whereas a muzzle brake usually has a small hole in the end, just large enough to let the bullet pass through.

Q. Can I get a non-ban compliant AR-15 upper shipped to me and modify it to be ban compliant before assembling it on a lower receiver?

A. My understanding is yes, you can. The upper by itself is not considered a firearm so unless it is assembled onto a lower (the part considered a gun) then you are not violating the AWB.

Q. I see some people pay a fee and are able to have a rifle with a barrel shorter than 16". Can I do that in NY state?

A. No, SBRs (Short Barreled Rifles) are not legal in NY state so you can not pay for a tax stamp and possess one here.

Q. If I have a barrel shorter than 16" and attach a barrel extension or muzzle brake that brings it to the legal 16" is that legal?

A. Yes, as long as the muzzle device is permanently attached (see above about attaching muzzle devices.)

Q. If I have a pre-ban rifle, do ALL of the parts on it have to be pre-ban?

A. No, as long as the rifle is pre-ban you can upgrade or install brand new post-ban parts.

[Elmo]

Honestly a question about felony or misd is a waste and only as good as the word of the person buying the gun.

Unless you get to know the person, I've never met anyone with a felony charge that would openly and willingly tell a stranger that they have a felony charge.

[BizCT]

A little off-topic, but, does anybody know someone with a gun that has a grenade launcher attached to it?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

A little off-topic, but, does anybody know someone with a gun that has a grenade launcher attached to it?

No, but I wish I did. That would be a 9.9 on the cool scale if you could take it for a spin. I have been to 2 rental facilities where you can rent and shoot fully auto and also went to a machine gun shoot in Maine. They both offered opportunities to shoot just about anything you ever wished to try.

Knob Creek KY is on my to do list for a machine gun shoot.

[BizCT]

That's awesome. If I remember correctly Vegas and Tampa both have places where you can shoot machine guns also.

I remember as a kid my grandpa had a gun with a bayonet on it from WWII. He let me stab a pumpkin with it once lol.

[Dr Ignominious Death]

Thanks for the replies, especially WNYBuckHunter. I have not made any modifications to it so it should be legal to sell. By the way, I intend to get my NRA membership with some of the money from the sale.

[covert]

A little off-topic, but, does anybody know someone with a gun that has a grenade launcher attached to it?

The Yugo 59/66 SKS' have grenade launchers on them. If you can't get grenades the launcher just adds weight and length to them though. This is how stupid this state is too, the SKS can have grenade launchers, bayonets and folding stocks because it has a fixed magazine not a detachable one!