Olympic Arms Press Release

[ants]

I don't think that anyone is referring to a cops life as "collateral damage". I think that they are referring to the fact that certain arms companies will not deal with the state, as a result of this ill-conceived law, as collateral damage.

I think these companies have the right to make this statement, and I also know that the police, one way or another, will be properly armed.

[tuckersdaddy]

Actually what you are saying about the state police may be true, except that even Cuomo cannot compel companies to supply weapons regardless of how loud the state police may complain about weapons shortages. Also bear in mind that a lot of the more dangerous law enforcement is done in inner cities by municiple police forces from city governments that simply have to live with whatever constraints that are shoved at them. So anyone hoping that gun and ammo manufacturers boycotting sales to NYS is going to force the repeal of this gun law, I believe are barking up the wrong tree. The courts are the only way to repeal that law.

Also, cops lives being turned into any kind of "collateral damage" for any reason is not acceptable to me.

you have completely missed it. YES cuomo Can compel companies to supply arms and ammo to the police, he just has to let them sell to the public. as far as inner citys police they do there job for service, pride and justice. however, if the city (im assuming bloomburg) or the state cant supply them with the tools to do the job, then find another job. (not the place to start with unions, pensions ect. ect. youll loose that aurgument as well) its not the cops lives that are collateral damage, its there jobs, my job, everyones way of life as we know it. its this apathy of its ok for them (gov.and agency) to have it, and standing in line to see what they give to us is acceptable, its ok for the gov and agencys to have tools to do there job, but we cant have the same tools to protect our familys and home which is why we work to begin with. let me tell it a different way. you mow your neighbors lawn, you park your car infront of his house. this goes on for a few years everything is fine. you buy a new car its yellow instead of blue, and your neighbor stops by and tells you to move your car because he dislikes yellow. are you going to continue to mow his lawn???? barret, olympic, and the others just decided to let the grass grow.

[Ford]

Actually what you are saying about the state police may be true, except that even Cuomo cannot compel companies to supply weapons regardless of how loud the state police may complain about weapons shortages. Also bear in mind that a lot of the more dangerous law enforcement is done in inner cities by municiple police forces from city governments that simply have to live with whatever constraints that are shoved at them. So anyone hoping that gun and ammo manufacturers boycotting sales to NYS is going to force the repeal of this gun law, I believe are barking up the wrong tree. The courts are the only way to repeal that law.

Also, cops lives being turned into any kind of "collateral damage" for any reason is not acceptable to me.

Exactly. While it is a show of solidarity with the gun owners of NYS, that is about it. The biggest players such as Glock, H&K, etc, are not going to care one bit about New Yorkers 2nd amendment rights. They are not even US companies.

[tuckersdaddy]

Exactly. While it is a show of solidarity with the gun owners of NYS, that is about it. The biggest players such as Glock, H&K, etc, are not going to care one bit about New Yorkers 2nd amendment rights. They are not even US companies.

except half their inventory is not eligable for sale in NY. not being able to sell to the third largest market in the us and limited in the largest market (cali) will start to have an effect on sales. loss of market makes big corps start to ask question as to how to get it back. both glock and h&k are listed in cuomos no-no list by name. bad publicity also ruffles corp. feathers, my guess is you will start to see more participation from the majors, maybe not boycotts, but someone has to pay the lawyers, fund the campains and other back room what nots. and if a company doesnt support our cause, simply support someone else that does. Need a new deer rifle? barrett offers an 82a semi auto with a fixed mag. maybe over kill for deer but you thank those that helped you.

[Doc]

What I would rather see these companies do is to throw some money into the pot for the current legal challenge to this law. That would be something useful and really effective that would result in real lasting change. It would also be something that is in their financial interest. In fact it probably would be in their interests and ours to initiate some court challenges of their own against this law. That would also be an action aimed at the right people for a change.

I would also like to see them throw some cash at the lobbying efforts against Obama's federal anti-gun activities (an issue that seems to be fading into the background here).

[jjb4900]

What I would rather see these companies do is to throw some money into the pot for the current legal challenge to this law. That would be something useful and really effective that would result in real lasting change. It would also be something that is in their financial interest. In fact it probably would be in their interests and ours to initiate some court challenges of their own against this law. That would also be an action aimed at the right people for a change.

I would also like to see them throw some cash at the lobbying efforts against Obama's federal anti-gun activities (an issue that seems to be fading into the background here).

I agree, and the donation of money would be a more genuine gesture towards the gun owners. I don't think many of the law enforcement agencies buy guns or ammo from the small arms dealers, my guess is they buy directly from the manufacturer. I think they are directing this towards the few Law Enforcement Officers who may buy the odd high capacity magazine, etc. for his own personal use. The majority of guys are issued this banned stuff and that's all they want or need.......and unfortunately, another company is gonna sellout and cash in on the other companies refusal to sell to New York.

Edited February 17, 2013 by jjb4900

[wheelieman]

I want to know Doc how is it that police are allowed to enforce something they do not understand, I'm not re writing your posts i'm just asking questions that you outlined within in them, I'm sorry if you do not understand the difference, you brought up a rocket launcher, you brought up militia, you brought up cops being hurt on the job, I just merely asked you questions as to why, Why is it that i cannot have the same fire power that the police do, why is it ok for the police to enforce laws that they do not understand, Why is it unless i agree with you im a neanderthal, I do not want cops to be hurt I, I want the police to have to live by the same laws that i do, the same laws they are enforcing, and not comprehending, I personally would hope as an individual a police officer has to make a choice to support by enforcing laws they do not understand or refuse to support them by not enforcing them, Yes i know as a police officer they do not get to choose what laws they enforce, But as a citizen nobody is making them stay and do a job that they do not agree with, There is a big difference between doing their duty and going against what to them is morally wrong, Police are like firemen the majority do it because they want to make a difference they want to help, On The 28th of this month there is a rally in Albany i'm going to be there to support the cause in a peaceful manner, we were asked not to bring firearms so i will not, I believe this can be resolved without violence i believe that we can make a difference but in the meantime why not support the manufacturers who refuse to do business with the state,, But too want the police to understand what they are enforcing is not too much to ask for, I actually believe its their duty to know what they are enforcing, When there is a law that is placed on the books its a police officers job to enforce that law regardless if they agree with it, That is the reason why people are attacking the police, After all a law that is not enforced is a law that should not have been written to begin with, If the police all stand together and refuse to enforce this law it can be changed the government cannot fire the entire police force of New York. They would have to listen to what they have to say and right the wrongs, That's why if the police take the side of the people and stand by us in this fight then yes we will win, If not then all of are rights are as good as gone, We need the police to do what is right for the people not what is right for themselves, I'm not saying quit their jobs i'm saying stand up for what they believe,

jjb 4900 The police are the first line in the defense of laws, They are the ones hired to enforce them,They are the ones people see everyday, They are the ones who will be kicking in doors and taking your guns, The politician in Washington or Albany will not be knocking on my door asking me to please hand over of my rights,"GUNS" That is the reason people are looking at cops like they have something to do with the law, And i'm not afraid of my firearms being taken yet but it will happen and it will happen sooner than you think and when it does it will be the police at 2 am kicking in our doors to take them not the politician who is home sleeping under the protection of the same firearms we are being stripped of the right to posses. So ya if you ask me how i look at police, Then i look at them with a negative eye when it comes to this topic of debate. And guess what for now i'm entitled to do so its my Right, For how much longer is anybodies guess but right now its my Right to do so,

[jjb4900]

actually, the police don't defend the laws, just just enforce them, people need to look at the bigger picture in the enforcement and prosecution of laws. How many have contacted their District Attorney's office and inquired if they intend to prosecute these laws? my guess is no one..........the cop on the street is the least of your concerns in this mess.

[13BVET]

The Fraternal Order Of Police is clearly NOT on the peoples side. Funny how they can't say "No, we don't support these unconstitutional laws", but they sure as hell have no problem getting up on stage, and saying "Yes, take the guns away from law abiding citizens", which they have done as recently as Obama's little suggestion on banning "assault weapons".

Last I saw, there were a lot of badges up on the stages where these bans were instituted, that were applauding like crazy. Was it my imagination?

As for losing my job, losing money, and all that bs, I've been there, thanks to my car getting impounded for nothing. So, take that pc bs, and shove it up your a$$.

[jjb4900]

The Fraternal Order Of Police is clearly NOT on the peoples side. Funny how they can't say "No, we don't support these unconstitutional laws", but they sure as hell have no problem getting up on stage, and saying "Yes, take the guns away from law abiding citizens", which they have done as recently as Obama's little suggestion on banning "assault weapons".

Last I saw, there were a lot of badges up on the stages where these bans were instituted, that were applauding like crazy. Was it my imagination?

As for losing my job, losing money, and all that bs, I've been there, thanks to my car getting impounded for nothing. So, take that pc bs, and shove it up your a$$.

oh boy, didn't take you long to dredge that up again did it?

[13BVET]

Yup, and it didn't take you long to put your head up the cops a$$ as usual-did it?

[13BVET]

So tell us, JJB. Since it's the cops who support these bans, who are these companies supposed to hold accountable? Merry Maids?!

[jjb4900]

is it really the "cops" who support theses laws? there are letter's out there from several law enforcement agencies speaking out against these laws. If you're basing your entire opinion on the few who stood behind the governor when he announced these laws, I don't know what to tell you...there are probably more who oppose it.....and unless the big companies like Glock, Smith & Wesson, Ruger and any of the ammo manufacturers jump on board, these small companies aren't holding anyone accountable, because it will have no impact on how any agency operates.....does anyone think the NYPD is ordering 2000 Glocks a year from Midway?

Edited February 17, 2013 by jjb4900

[13BVET]

So, if it has such a minimal impact, then why such a huge outcry about it? They have the right to sell their items to who they want to. Maybe if the FOP would butt out, then this would never have happened. The FOP's view on disarming the public is very clear.

[jjb4900]

So, if it has such a minimal impact, then why such a huge outcry about it? They have the right to sell their items to who they want to. Maybe if the FOP would butt out, then this would never have happened. The FOP's view on disarming the public is very clear.

just a thought, but maybe it isn't having an impact on their business, that's why they can afford to do it.......I honestly think it will affect the general public more than any agency, if they refuse to sell to anyone in any State that has any restrictions, what's gonna happen when the ammo background check goes into affect? my guess is you can say goodbye to saving money on mail order because you'll be stuck buying at the local shop for more $....the outcry is from the public, and we see what Albany thinks about our opinion.

[13BVET]

We're going to end up buying ammo at local shops anyway, because Gov. Homo's new law makes it impossible in the long run to order online.

[jjb4900]

We're going to end up buying ammo at local shops anyway, because Gov. Homo's new law makes it impossible in the long run to order online.

you beat me to it, and as big as the shooting community is in NY, just think of the taxes that will be collected....can't see Albany having a problem with that........can't imagine any local dealer wanting to let anyone order discount ammo from anywhere delivered to his shop so the customer can save money, not gonna happen.

[Doc]

I want to know Doc how is it that police are allowed to enforce something they do not understand, I'm not re writing your posts i'm just asking questions that you outlined within in them, I'm sorry if you do not understand the difference, you brought up a rocket launcher, you brought up militia, you brought up cops being hurt on the job, I just merely asked you questions as to why, Why is it that i cannot have the same fire power that the police do, why is it ok for the police to enforce laws that they do not understand, Why is it unless i agree with you im a neanderthal, I do not want cops to be hurt I, I want the police to have to live by the same laws that i do, the same laws they are enforcing, and not comprehending, I personally would hope as an individual a police officer has to make a choice to support by enforcing laws they do not understand or refuse to support them by not enforcing them, Yes i know as a police officer they do not get to choose what laws they enforce, But as a citizen nobody is making them stay and do a job that they do not agree with, There is a big difference between doing their duty and going against what to them is morally wrong, Police are like firemen the majority do it because they want to make a difference they want to help, On The 28th of this month there is a rally in Albany i'm going to be there to support the cause in a peaceful manner, we were asked not to bring firearms so i will not, I believe this can be resolved without violence i believe that we can make a difference but in the meantime why not support the manufacturers who refuse to do business with the state,, But too want the police to understand what they are enforcing is not too much to ask for, I actually believe its their duty to know what they are enforcing, When there is a law that is placed on the books its a police officers job to enforce that law regardless if they agree with it, That is the reason why people are attacking the police, After all a law that is not enforced is a law that should not have been written to begin with, If the police all stand together and refuse to enforce this law it can be changed the government cannot fire the entire police force of New York. They would have to listen to what they have to say and right the wrongs, That's why if the police take the side of the people and stand by us in this fight then yes we will win, If not then all of are rights are as good as gone, We need the police to do what is right for the people not what is right for themselves, I'm not saying quit their jobs i'm saying stand up for what they believe,

Well, there you go again. I never called anyone a "neanderthal" or even hinted at that. I love the way you guys re-write my comments just so you can argue with someone. You keep making up these mythical remarks and then arguing with them. It's kind of like a one-man conversation. My opinions on this are rather simple and basic and I have repeated them enough so that anyone who can read should not be finding a need to embellish them.

As far as all your questions about cops understanding this law, I'm sorry, but I don't read minds and I don't have any idea whether they understand the law or not and for this conversation, it doesn't even relate to what I was talking about. So I don't know whether you even have a clue what you are talking about, and frankly I don't care.

As far as the rest of your questions, you asked the same questions back on page two of this thread and I responded to them already. I am actually getting a bit tired of repeating myself for those that refuse to read my replies or those who for some reason can't comprehend what their reading.

Oh, and by the way your notions about having the cops declare the constitutionality of the laws they enforce or decide which laws they should or should not enforce, I think that has been responded to no less than ahalf dozen times. You apparently are not grasping the concept of enforcement vs. law-making. I can't help you out there. With all of my attempts at explaining it, apparently it is still flying over your head. And so I give up.

Now as to all your questions about why you are not allowed to own certain weapons, I can only say that I do not know all the reasons why you are not allowed to have the same weapons as the police. Apparently you even think you should be allowed to own an armed drone aircraft, and a rocket launcher, since you actually asked why you can't own them. I'm not sure why you are stopping there? How about a functioning tank or rocket launcher or flame thrower, or your own personal tactical nuke. If you want, go fill up a panel truck with barrels of fertilizer and fuel oil ..... lol. I mean we can get as ridiculous as you want to get, but don't be asking me why you can't own these things. I don't write the laws and I don't have the background or authority or desire to try to answer these kinds of questions for you. And also none of that crazy stuff has anything to do with my original comment about the potential negative consequences on those that make their living in law enforcement.

If you are having trouble understanding any of this, re-read it as many times as needed. But this being one final stab at it (out of several), I probably won't be wasting anymore time repeating it all again.

[jjb4900]

Doc, I appreciate your well thought out post's....unfortunately many don't know where they should direct their anger and no matter how hard you try, it's not gonna change their way of thinking.

[Doc]

Doc, I appreciate your well thought out post's....unfortunately many don't know where they should direct their anger and no matter how hard you try, it's not gonna change their way of thinking.

I realize that, but we had all better get our heads straight on this and figure out exactly who it is that needs opposing. If we are all running around in circles blaming law enforcement instead of the filthy legislators who proposed and voted for this thing, we can all just sit back and watch it all disappear a piece at a time. This is not a time to be wasting emotion and effort on someone who didn't have a single thing to do with the passage of this bill. We had better recognize exactly who it is that needs to be punished for the underhanded and sneaky way that this was passed, and also for the mentality that was shown by those who voted for it. We had better make those people understand that they have awoken a sleeping giant and we had better see to it that they never hold their offices again. At the very least, we had better focus our efforts in those directions instead of flailing around dispersing our wrath on what amounts to basic innocent bystanders.

[jjb4900]

and if you ask me, the companies who are now refusing to sell to anyone in NY are playing right into the hands of those who want to restrict gun and ammo sales here. It's not going to affect law enforcement agencies, just the general public.

[Early]

I have not seen where any arms manufacturers have said they won't sell their products to NY retailers or to distributors who supply NY retailers. Retailers make big bucks selling to cops and to law enforcement agencies. You can pretty much they are not going to endanger their profits by refusing to sell to those who support/enforce Cuomo's gun laws.

Doc's position is crystal clear: He thinks cops...aka govt. forces...should have arms that are denied the general public. There are countless Americans who think otherwish. Hell, the founding fathers thought otherwise. If there ever were a govt. gun grab in this country, the grabbers (cops) would seek assistance from snitches among us. Beware the snitches!

[jjb4900]

I have not seen where any arms manufacturers have said they won't sell their products to NY retailers or to distributors who supply NY retailers. Retailers make big bucks selling to cops and to law enforcement agencies. You can pretty much they are not going to endanger their profits by refusing to sell to those who support/enforce Cuomo's gun laws.

Doc's position is crystal clear: He thinks cops...aka govt. forces...should have arms that are denied the general public. There are countless Americans who think otherwish. Hell, the founding fathers thought otherwise. If there ever were a govt. gun grab in this country, the grabbers (cops) would seek assistance from snitches among us. Beware the snitches!

Cop's and gov't forces have been allowed to have arms that have been denied to the general public for years, the last magazine restriction that was enacted about 10 years ago went unchallenged, why is it just now that people are waking up?

[Early]

People are waking up because their feet are, all of a sudden, being held to the flame.

Cops were most likely exempt in the first place because of stupid attitudes like that held by Doc...."Police are superior to the people" "Police need the means to protect themselves that the people are denied"....That, and overlooking that the police work for the govt....not the people. I am not anti-cop; I just don't think cops are in any way superior to regular every day law-obiding citizens!

[jjb4900]

People are waking up because their feet are, all of a sudden, being held to the flame.

Cops were most likely exempt in the first place because of stupid attitudes like that held by Doc...."Police are superior to the people" "Police need the means to protect themselves that the people are denied"....That, and overlooking that the police work for the govt....not the people. I am not anti-cop; I just don't think cops are in any way superior to regular every day law-obiding citizens!

actually, it's really more that cops need the proper tools to do their job, not a matter of feeling superior, most cops had revolvers until it was realized that criminals had them out gunned.....your average cop is not a fanatical gun owner who feels they are getting over on the average citizen by having a better gun or more bullets.