Feeding Wildlife

[Doc]

I found an article in the Sunday paper that talked about one of the reasons that the DEC is against feeding deer. The lead-off incident was actually about a dead 6 by 7 bull elk found dead in Elk County, PA. last month, the apparent victim of winter wildlife feeding. Test results returned last week cited rumen acidosis as the cause of death. This condition in wild animals is often linked to supplemental feeding by humans.

 

Rumen acidosis is brought on by the sudden introduction of carbohydrates, usually grain and often corn, to an animal's diet. The diets of wild deer and elk change throughout the year. The bacteria in their gut adjusts to accommodate those changes. However, if their diets change suddenly rather than gradually their bodies are unable to digest the newly introduced food. If they eat enough of that food it can kill them.

 

There were a lot of other reasons for not feeding wildlife discussed also in this article, but most of those we have already talked about. I am still looking for the on-line address of the article, but right now their search engine is not responding. If I can get it I will post it. It was a very interesting article.

 

Paper:     Canandaigua Daily Messenger

Title of article:    "Soft hearts can cause wildlife tragedies"

[G-Man]

I've heard of this before.. deer starving with full stomachs...same can happen even if feeding alfalfa hay, the bacteria isnt there to digest it.

[sampotter]

The key word is "sudden". If feeding started before the animals were starving already, their gut flora will acclimate to other feeds. In places where deer have been fed routinely this is not a problem. To the uninformed reader it sounds like any feeding corn will be deadly, but that is not true.

 

There are certainly better ways to feed them though. We don't feed our cows straight corn either.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

The key word is "sudden". If feeding started before the animals were starving already, their gut flora will acclimate to other feeds. In places where deer have been fed routinely this is not a problem. To the uninformed reader it sounds like any feeding corn will be deadly, but that is not true.

 

There are certainly better ways to feed them though. We don't feed our cows straight corn either.

So True. If anybody knows deer they know their gut changes with the seasons to be able to adjust and eat other foods to say alive. If they are started on feed before they really need it they will be fine.  No animal should be fed a straight corn diet thats for sure! 

 

I really.really think its funny that they say dont feed the deer because of cwd. How many deer die each year because they starve to death? On the other hand it takes up to 5 years for a deer to die from cwd if they happen to get it. Now add up how many deer make it to even their 3rd birthdays in most any state. If you were to weigh whats going to kill a deer in Ny state..Starve,car,hunter yote's,ehd,cwd. What deer would live the longest life? 

[Doc]

The key word is "sudden". If feeding started before the animals were starving already, their gut flora will acclimate to other feeds. In places where deer have been fed routinely this is not a problem. To the uninformed reader it sounds like any feeding corn will be deadly, but that is not true.

 

There are certainly better ways to feed them though. We don't feed our cows straight corn either.

And there is the problem. The average person interested in feeding deer has absolutely no idea of what or how or any clue about the consequences of their ignorance. Frankly, I doubt that the number of people who have even heard the term "rumen Acidosis" would even make it to 1% of the population that would engage in feeding activities. There are other responsibilities that come with feeding wildlife where ignorance can spell tragedy for the very animals that they are trying to help. Attempting to monitor and control the use of unwise feeding procedures is certainly an impossible activity for the DEC, and I can well understand why they decided that eliminating the activity entirely is a much smarter way to go.

 

But anyway, I thought this article added yet one more layer to all the reasons that the DEC decided to ban deer feeding, and hope you all found it interesting.

 

Sorry I couldn't supply a link to the entire article. There were a few other things that were discussed in there too.

[Doc]

There are also protein feeds that are lower in carbs etc.

 

2 of the 3 deer I harvest last season had corn in their guts. I bet the local population are eating it all year long.

Again, if people could be trained in the biological needs of deer, perhaps the DEC might not have such a negative view of the practice of feeding deer. But that doesn't happen and won't happen, and in fact can't be done in a practical sense.

 

As far as deer eating corn in the fall (hunting season), that is normal for that time of year. That is a far different scenario than what they are eating right now in the dead of winter and how their gut is conditioned now. That is the problem. There doesn't seem to be a recognition of how dramatically deer diets change as the winter season advances. And even when told, it still goes over people's heads...... hence the "no feeding" law.

[mike rossi]

Microbes which live in the stomachs of deer synthesize nutrients which the animal absorbs. It is thought that supplemental feed ferments more efficiently than natural foods and feeding increases the amount of food too rapidly. The change is too rapid for the microbes living in the animal’s stomach to adapt and the result is lactic acidosis or starvation.

 

In the past, done with care, supplemental feeding was useful. However, since the surfacing of CWD it is (or should be) a thing of the past.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Microbes which live in the stomachs of deer synthesize nutrients which the animal absorbs. It is thought that supplemental feed ferments more efficiently than natural foods and feeding increases the amount of food too rapidly. The change is too rapid for the microbes living in the animal’s stomach to adapt and the result is lactic acidosis or starvation.

 

In the past, done with care, supplemental feeding was useful. However, since the surfacing of CWD it is (or should be) a thing of the past.

Why do you say this. Can you show us some science and PROOF of where cwd has been found in any saliva,urine or feces!  Thanks!

[mike rossi]

Why do you say this. Can you show us some science and PROOF of where cwd has been found in any saliva,urine or feces!  Thanks!

 

http://jvi.asm.org/content/85/13/6309.long

 

The part you want in the Discussion section, note bold especially:

 

DISCUSSION

Among the transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs), chronic wasting disease is unique in its high level of transmissibility and, thus, prevalence in free-ranging populations. Here we report the presence of substantial prion-converting activity in excretory tissues proximate to the saliva, urine, and feces shed by CWD-infected deer. While these results do not speak to infectivity, our previous research has shown that conventional test-negative, sPMCA-positive tissues and bodily fluids may indeed harbor infectivity (17, 18). The use of sPMCA as a surrogate for a bioassay to detect PrP^CWD in excretory tissues may help to explain the efficient horizontal transmission of CWD but also raises questions regarding the source and mechanism of prion shedding from glandular and mucosal tissues.

Edited February 6, 2014 by mike rossi

[Four Season Whitetail's]

http://jvi.asm.org/content/85/13/6309.long

 

The part you want in the Discussion section, note bold especially:

 

DISCUSSION

Among the transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs), chronic wasting disease is unique in its high level of transmissibility and, thus, prevalence in free-ranging populations. Here we report the presence of substantial prion-converting activity in excretory tissues proximate to the saliva, urine, and feces shed by CWD-infected deer. While these results do not speak to infectivity, our previous research has shown that conventional test-negative, sPMCA-positive tissues and bodily fluids may indeed harbor infectivity (17, 18). The use of sPMCA as a surrogate for a bioassay to detect PrP^CWD in excretory tissues may help to explain the efficient horizontal transmission of CWD but also raises questions regarding the source and mechanism of prion shedding from glandular and mucosal tissues.

So now please tell the class of your finding that there are many different prions including scrapies and cwd. The facts have been proven that yes it is possible that prions can be moved by fluids but it is also a fact that the cwd prion has never been found in any body fluid of any deer!  Period.   Why do you think a deer has to be dead to be tested?   Would it not only be obvious that if cwd can be passed in fluid then it should be found in the body fluids of a proven,tested cwd positive deer?  Its never been found after years of trying.

 

They say now that prions are being found in Alfalfa hay being brought in from out west. Do you also think that cwd can be passed on to any animal that eats that same hay in northern Ny?  

 

Facts are facts and fact is the cwd prion has never been found in any fluid of any whitetail deer in any state.  Do some research on the trial that just went down between the state of Iowa and a Iowa deer farmer. Its was said, on stand,under oath, by a top research that supported the state of Iowa in that trial and he says....cwd does not pose a threat to any Iowan or any animal in that state!

 

 You can talk prions all day, we are talking cwd!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I will give you just a little piece of the trial.

 

 

 

Posted January 07 2014 - 11:43 AM

Direct from DNR Court Case Testimony:

 

After feeding three deer "repeated 90 daily oral doses of urine and feces from CWD positive source deer" the deer did not test positive after 12 months!

 

By Dr. Miller: (Blood)

A. This particular piece of work showed that
1 infectivity was present both in salivary secretions
2 from the infected deer. In this case they were
3 using whitetail deer and also infectivity was
4 present in blood.
5 Q. Were you a co-author of this paper as
6 well?
7 A. I was. I had more of a minor goal on
8 this particular paper than I did in the paper that
9 we just discussed, the Tamguney paper.

By Dr. Miller: Crows

21 Q. I've seen some reference in the case to
22 transmission from crows who have ingested feces
23 from deer and that being a possible vector of
24 transmission. Are you familiar with any of that
25 research?

1 A. Unless there has been one that I have
2 missed, there was a paper that came out maybe a
3 year or so ago, plus one I believe, and it was
4 actually crows that were fed brain tissue from
5 mice, I think, mouse-adapted scrapie, which is,
6 again, another model and I believe they were
7 looking at the feces from the crows is what you are
8 thinking about in terms of transmission.
9 So it's kind of a pass-through
10 transmission. I don't believe in that paper that
11 there was any suggestion that the crows would
12 propagate infectivity but they could serve as kind
13 of a feathered vehicle for maybe physically moving
14 it around during the period of time that the
15 material was ingested.

them.

Dr. Waldrup - Feces and Urine Study

25 Q. If you look at his article a little bit
662
1 further down, he concludes that CWD is not highly
2 contagious, is that true?
3 A. In the context that he is using it, yes,
4 it would be true.
5 Q. What do you mean by that?
6 A. When -- just a second. Oftentimes when
7 we talk about a highly contagious disease this is a
8 disease which a large part of the population
9 becomes either antibody reactive or actually become
10 sick and any human influenza is a good example of
11 this. If only 10 percent of the population becomes
12 infected that's not really a highly contagious
13 disease. It is contagious.
14 And that's been shown. CWD is contagious
15 but I guess it comes down to a matter of
16 perspective when you say highly contagious and to
17 me the numbers compared to other diseases of deer
18 for CWD transmission is not highly contagious.
19 Q. Now, could you please turn to Exhibit
20 MMM. You've heard some testimony about the
21 transmission of CWD through the discharge of fecal
22 material. What does this study indicate about
23 that?
24 A. Well, if you will look at the figure on
25 page 6 of the article, when the researchers in this
663
1 tried to lead to urine and feces, PO.
2 JUDGE PALMER: PO?
3 A. And that stands for P-E-R-O-S, PEROS,
4 that's an oral administration. You can see very
5 clearly they could not transmit it at all.
6 Q. How long of a period of time had they
7 been trying to transmit it?
8 A. Well, back in the methods and materials
9 here. For urine and feces each of the three deer
10 received repeated 90 daily oral doses of urine and
11 feces from CWD positive source deer.
12 Q. How long were they measuring to see
13 whether or not the deer --
14 A. Up to 12 months, as I understand it.
15 Q. If you turn to Exhibit TT.
16 MR. GALLAGHER: Move for the admission of
17 Exhibit MMM at this point.
18 JUDGE PALMER: Any objection? MMM is
19 admitted.
20 Q. How does this study, Exhibit TT?
21 A. Yes, I have it.
22 MS. BROMMEL: Just TT, not TTT.
23 JUDGE PALMER: All right.
24 Q. And this study is by Tamguney, correct?
25 A. Yes.

Q. And how does this study's finding compare
2 with Exhibit MMM?
3 A. It has already been pointed out the
4 recipient animals in this study were transgenic
5 mice. The recipient animals in the Mathiason
6 article before were actually whitetail deer.
7 Q. Why was that significant?
8 A. We are concerned about this in deer.
9 Again, Dr. Miller stated very, very, well by the
10 use of transgenic mice is convenient but a
11 transgenic mouse is not a deer.
12 Q. So in the study that actually focused on
13 deer they couldn't transmit it or they found out it
14 was not transmitted over the course of 12 months?
15 A. Correct.

 

Edited February 6, 2014 by Four Season Whitetails

[Four Season Whitetail's]

A bit more you ask!

 

Dr Miller.

 

Q. And didn't you testify in the prior

9 proceeding that, quote, over a large scale

10 population it's been difficult to demonstrate any

11 effect from CWD?

12 A. I did. ( Dr. Miller)

13 Q. And you also testified that we have not

14 seen any clear indications of dramatic declines in

15 deer or elk numbers on a large geographic scale as

16 a result of chronic wasting disease, didn't you?

17 A. That's correct, that is what I testified

18 to. ( Dr. Miller)

 

Q. Now, could you please turn to Exhibit

9 FFF. Now, is this a research article entitled

10 "Demographic Patterns and Harvest Vulnerability of

11 Chronic Wasting Disease Infected Whitetailed Deer

12 in Wisconsin?"

13 A. Yes. ( Miller)

14 Q. Again, if you look at the abstract, the

15 third sentence in, does it state, quote, We found

16 no difference in harvest rates between CWD infected

17 and noninfected deer?

18 A. That's what it says, yes. (Dr. Miller)

19 Q. And do you have any reason to disagree

20 with me that that's the finding of that study?

21 A. No. (Miller)

22 Q. If you could turn to GGG, please. (Attorney)

23 A. Yes. (Miller)

24 Q. And is this a journal article entitled,

25 "Estimating Chronic Wasting Disease Effects on

Mule Deer Recruitment and Population Growth?"

2 A. Correct. (Miller)

3 Q. Again, if you look at the abstract, the

4 final sentence just above the term "key words,"

5 does it state "We conclude that although CWD may

6 affect mule deer recruitment, these effects seem to

7 be sufficiently small that they can be omitted in

8 estimating the influences of CWD on population

9 growth rate?"

10 A. That's what it says. (Miller)

 

Dr. Waldrup:

11 Q. Now, in Wisconsin what is the prevalence

12 rate for that state? (Attorney)

13 A. Again, looking on the -- if I may, too,

14 just to point out the numbers that I used in my

15 report, this was done last summer. Wisconsin has

16 since updated their information that is on their

17 website and the update as of yesterday they

18 reported approximately 160,000 animals tested

19 statewide and it was over 1300 were founded.

20 So, again, divide the 1300 by the

21 168,000. That's a point -- 0.8 percent prevalence

22 and I would consider that low. (Waldrup)

23 JUDGE PALMER: That was from what day?

24 When was this information pulled?

25 THE WITNESS: I saw it yesterday, the

1   20th.

2 JUDGE PALMER: What period of time was

3 that 180,000 testing sample?

4 THE WITNESS (Waldrup): That was since 2002.

5 Q. JUDGE:  So it's been in excess of 10 years?

6 A. Yes. (Waldrup)

 

(Directly from Colorado Division of Wildlife Website)  CWD exposed game management units showed 24% reduction in population .... Non CWD game units showed 22% reduction .... with 10% margin of error . . . . . No difference in population for CWD units and non CWD units - WOW!

 

Dr. Waldrup:

20 A. The first five pages came directly off

21 the Colorado Wildlife and Parks website and these

22 are population estimates of deer and it simply says

23 deer. It does not differentiate between whitetail

24 and mule deer for the data analysis units. Each

25 of the data analysis units contain different game

1 management units.

2 Dr. Miller spoke about those this

3 morning.

4 Q. And if you turn to the 6th and 7th page,

5 have you separated the game management units

6 between those that have been found to have CWD and

7 those that have not?

8 A. According to information, again, given on

9 the Colorado Wildlife and Parks website, yes, I

10 did.

11 Q. (Attorney):  What was the population change between

12 2007 and 2011 for herds that were not exposed but

13 did not have findings of CWD?

14 A. (Waldrup): Well, from the population, total

15 population estimates from 2007 to the total

16 population estimates of 2011 and, again, when I

17 prepared this this summer that was the last data,

18 most recent data, on the website. 22 percent

19 reduction on the population.

20 Q. If you can turn to the next page, what

21 does this page describe?

22 A. This, again, is exactly the same thing on

23 a previous page except these were data analysis

24 units that had game management units within them

25 that were CWD positive.

654

1 Q. What was the percentage of reduction?

2 A. 24 percent reduction in population from

3 2007 to 2011.

4 Q. What is the significance or do you find

5 any significance in the difference between 22 and

6 24 percent reduction?

7 A. If you had been able to line up each and

8 every deer from each of those data analysis units 2

9 percent might be significant. However, you have

10 to -- and if it says on there these are population

11 estimates, I'm very familiar with different

12 techniques for population estimates and it's very

13 acceptable within wildlife management to accept a 5

14 to 10 percent error in those estimates.

15 Given that there could be a 5 to 10

16 percent error in the population estimates, a 2

17 percent difference in that is not significant.

18 Q. So with respect to Colorado then these

19 game units, there was no aggregate impact of CWD?

20 A. There did not appear to be.

 

We have the exhibits showing the Colorado Website Game Management units if anyone is interested

 

 

[mike rossi]

Note the bold type:

 

Abstract: Chronic wasting disease (CWD) of cervids is a prion disease distinguished by its high level of transmissibility, wherein bodily fluids and excretions are thought to play an important role. Typical of all prion diseases, CWD is characterized by the forced conversion of the normal prion protein (PrP C ) into a misfolded isoform (PrPCWD ), which has been shown to accumulate primarily in tissues of the lymphoid and nervous systems, though has also been found in other peripheral tissues including elements of the cardiovascular, musculoskeletal, and urogenital systems. In this dissertation, two approaches are used to identify infectious CWD prions and PrPCWD in the bodily fluids and tissues of CWD-exposed white-tailed deer: a novel bioassay system using a transgenic mouse line expressing the cervid PrP protein (Tg[CerPrP] mice), and a recently developed prion amplification assay known as serial protein misfolding cyclic amplification (sPMCA). In initial experiments, concentrated urine and saliva samples from terminal CWD+ white-tailed deer, suspected of harboring infectious CWD prions, was assessed by Tg[CerPrP] bioassay and sPMCA. Authentic prion infectivity was detected in urine and saliva using both detection systems in the case of urine, though only mouse bioassay successfully demonstrated CWD prions in saliva. The concentration of abnormal prion protein in bodily fluids was very low, as indicated by: undetectable PrP CWD levels by traditional assays (western blot, ELISA) and prolonged incubation periods and incomplete TSE attack rates in inoculated Tg[CerPrP] mice. These findings helped to extend the understanding of CWD prion shedding and transmission and portend the detection of infectious prions in body fluids in other prion infections. Based on the identification of CWD prions in saliva ("prionsialia") and urine ("prionuria"), I next sought to determine whether deer previously exposed orally to urine and feces from CWD+ sources, while conventional test-negative, may actually be harboring very low level CWD infection not evident in the 19 month observation period in initial cervid bioassay studies. A selection of tissues, including those of the lymphoreticular and both central and peripheral nervous systems were fully examined, initially using Tg[CerPrP] bioassay to demonstrate true infectivity, and secondarily with sPMCA. Positive controls consisted of issues from CWD+ deer exposed orally to saliva; negative control tissue sets were collected from deer exposed orally and intracranially to CWD-negative brain. PrP CWD was detected in the tissues of orally exposed deer by both sPMCA and Tg[CerPrP] mouse bioassay; each assay revealed very low levels of CWD prions previously undetectable by western blot, ELISA, or IHC. Serial PMCA analysis of individual tissues identified that obex alone was positive in urine/feces exposed deer. PrP CWD was amplified from both LRS and neural tissues of positive control deer but not from the same tissues of negative control deer. Detection of subclinical infection in deer orally exposed to urine and feces (1) suggests that a prolonged subclinical state can exist such that observation periods in excess of two years may be needed to detect CWD infection, and (2) illustrates the sensitive and specific application of sPMCA in the diagnosis of low-level prion infection. Despite the confirmation of infectious prions in urine and saliva, along with conventional test-negative deer exposed to urine and feces, the manner in which infectivity is transferred to these excreta is unknown. To address this, I went on to apply sPMCA to tissues associated with production and excretion of urine and saliva in an effort to seek proximal sources of prion shedding. I blindly analyzed oropharyngeal and urogenital tissues, reproducibly demonstrating PrP CWD in each tissue examined in 3 rounds of sPMCA; whereas blood samples from the same animals and concurrent negative controls remained negative. Tissue distribution was affected by route of inoculation and CNS burden. The identification of PrPCWD in bodily fluids and conventional-test negative tissues - in the absence of detection by conventional methods - may indicate the presence of protease-sensitive infectious prions in excretory tissues not revealed by assays employing PK digestion or other means to remove PrP C reactivity. (Abstract shortened by UMI.)

[mike rossi]

This post started out about the negative effect of feeding cervids due to lactic acidosis. Now we are talking about a totally different and unrelated negative effect of feeding deer, elk and moose - the  "horizontal transmission" of CWD.

 

Two distinct problems with one and the same cause... Just don't feed deer, that's the recommendation guided by an overwhelming amount of research about two entirely different things...  

[Doc]

Frankly, I can think of nothing good that can come of concentrating deer through single point feeding. Whether you consider the hazards of incorrect feeding due to the ignorance of untrained individuals, or diseases borne of artificially induced close contact (not just limited to CWD), or just the destruction of natural habitat due to impracticality and failure to keep up with a proper and adequate feeding program.

 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

This post started out about the negative effect of feeding cervids due to lactic acidosis. Now we are talking about a totally different and unrelated negative effect of feeding deer, elk and moose - the  "horizontal transmission" of CWD.

 

Two distinct problems with one and the same cause... Just don't feed deer, that's the recommendation guided by an overwhelming amount of research about two entirely different things...  

So true and it was on track untill you made a statement against someones post and it seems that you still want to bold print a bunch of outdated,unproven cwd material.  I guess testimony,under oath, in a court of law from the countries top cwd researcher telling you just what he has found cwd to be and not to be is not good enough for you. That research shows that there is no proof and never has been that cwd can be spread by any body fluids. The only negitive of feeding wild deer, that have no food is that its 100% going to die if you dont and the ones that know what they are doing and know the slim chance a deer catching anything that will kill it before a hunter,car or dog will, Will continue to feed their deer with great results! 

Chronic wasting disease (CWD) of cervids is a prion disease distinguished by its high level of transmissibility, wherein bodily fluids and excretions are thought to play an important role.(Quote)

Your word thought stands out now to be we have shown tests where this has been proven to not play an important role as of yet.

 

Edited February 7, 2014 by Four Season Whitetails

[sampotter]

You should see the deer piled up under my neighbors apple tree right now. Couldn't slip a cat between them.This is a regular feeding station for em too.

Or go to the Northwoods where hundreds of deer come from miles around to yard up in a single cedar swamp....

[Four Season Whitetail's]

You should see the deer piled up under my neighbors apple tree right now. Couldn't slip a cat between them.This is a regular feeding station for em too.

Or the hundred or so living, and doing very well, in my buddy's corn field up in the town of Rutland. Those deer have been eating corn from Sept untill now with no harm done to them. 100lbs bag of corn givin to a deer that has never seen corn would not be a good thing but most deer any of us see would do just fine eating corn all winter as long as they have already had it in their diet earlier in the fall.

[Geno C]

Frankly, I can think of nothing good that can come of concentrating deer through single point feeding. Whether you consider the hazards of incorrect feeding due to the ignorance of untrained individuals, or diseases borne of artificially induced close contact (not just limited to CWD), or just the destruction of natural habitat due to impracticality and failure to keep up with a proper and adequate feeding program.

I know you are aware of the many "natural" single point feedings that occur every year, same spot with out human encounters. This cwd hasn't been an innue in this state for many years and has nothing to do with the DEC havin laws on feeding wildlife. It occurs year round here in this state from the island to your own stomping grounds, guys feed deer, people feed deer. Many many states feed deer year round with little influence on CWD. If anyone here thinks guys do not have feed blocks and mineral sites out right now your crazy. Small concentrated food plots are being hit as we speak. Food plots just because it's planted doesn't mean it couldn't have the same effect as a feed block, period. Especially this time of year when feed sources are scarce and concentrated deer populations all feeding in small areas.  If many many deer are in a plot urinating and pooping all over, someone please tell me what the difference is if other deer feed in the same spot? Do the deer clean the leaves off Something? Give me a break... One elk dies and cwd is thrown around as an "I told you so". I think in most states that have year round feeding cwd is not a huge factor, I do know EHD is tho...

 

 

not singling you out BTW...

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I know you are aware of the many "natural" single point feedings that occur every year, same spot with out human encounters. This cwd hasn't been an innue in this state for many years and has nothing to do with the DEC havin laws on feeding wildlife. It occurs year round here in this state from the island to your own stomping grounds, guys feed deer, people feed deer. Many many states feed deer year round with little influence on CWD. If anyone here thinks guys do not have feed blocks and mineral sites out right now your crazy. Small concentrated food plots are being hit as we speak. Food plots just because it's planted doesn't mean it couldn't have the same effect as a feed block, period. Especially this time of year when feed sources are scarce and concentrated deer populations all feeding in small areas.  If many many deer are in a plot urinating and pooping all over, someone please tell me what the difference is if other deer feed in the same spot? Do the deer clean the leaves off Something? Give me a break... One elk dies and cwd is thrown around as an "I told you so". I think in most states that have year round feeding cwd is not a huge factor, I do know EHD is tho...

 

 

not singling you out BTW...

Good post. Its all smoke and mirrors used by you friendly dec and the jobs that are saved by using cwd as an excuse. A live test will be here soon so it will come to a head in due time.

 

Your post of people feeding this year...Oh if i could only say.  I will say that if you have where you are,what i have here as far as snow and you have deer wintering in your area. Im sure they would not turn down a SMART handout.

[sampotter]

Many DEC regions consider the current feeding law null and void after the Sullivan county case...

[growalot]

I still say..$$$ to tonnage...I'd rather plant ground than spend 9-15 dollars a bag to feed and keep deer in the area...cheaper  and not feeding greedy raccoons and crow more than the turkey...rabbits  game birds and deer...for the price of 2 bags of corn...I can plant an apple tree and down the road get bushels of apple on the ground...Plus  have more fun doing it...

[Geno C]

I still say..$$$ to tonnage...I'd rather plant ground than spend 9-15 dollars a bag to feed and keep deer in the area...cheaper and not feeding greedy raccoons and crow more than the turkey...rabbits game birds and deer...for the price of 2 bags of corn...I can plant an apple tree and down the road get bushels of apple on the ground...Plus have more fun doing it...

I agree with you, I'd rather plant also. I live doing it... The amount of feeding that goes on is way higher the. Some are willing to admit and without having any active CWD cases report in quite sometime.

[Geno C]

Good post. Its all smoke and mirrors used by you friendly dec and the jobs that are saved by using cwd as an excuse. A live test will be here soon so it will come to a head in due time.

Your post of people feeding this year...Oh if i could only say. I will say that if you have where you are,what i have here as far as snow and you have deer wintering in your area. Im sure they would not turn down a SMART handout.

There's members here now showing trail cam pics of small plot areas where deer are herding up and hitting these areas hard. Where there's food they will be and food plots are getting nailed this time of year and I'm sure evey deer is going to the bathroom everyday on these areas. I think this CWD is just a paranoia people are developing. Just another thing the powers that be are instilling in fellow hunters. We already know although the DEC does know a lot about wildlife, their structure on things are not always for the best and or accurate. JMO

[Doc]

I know you are aware of the many "natural" single point feedings that occur every year, same spot with out human encounters. This cwd hasn't been an innue in this state for many years and has nothing to do with the DEC havin laws on feeding wildlife. It occurs year round here in this state from the island to your own stomping grounds, guys feed deer, people feed deer. Many many states feed deer year round with little influence on CWD. If anyone here thinks guys do not have feed blocks and mineral sites out right now your crazy. Small concentrated food plots are being hit as we speak. Food plots just because it's planted doesn't mean it couldn't have the same effect as a feed block, period. Especially this time of year when feed sources are scarce and concentrated deer populations all feeding in small areas.  If many many deer are in a plot urinating and pooping all over, someone please tell me what the difference is if other deer feed in the same spot? Do the deer clean the leaves off Something? Give me a break... One elk dies and cwd is thrown around as an "I told you so". I think in most states that have year round feeding cwd is not a huge factor, I do know EHD is tho...

 

 

not singling you out BTW...

As a point of correction, the original post properly labeled the death of the elk to be caused by rumen acidosis, and did not mention CWD at all. But I have to say that the jury is still out regarding CWD and a huge laundry list of other deer diseases that can be transmitted through body incidental contact with body wastes.

 

Logic tells me that it is a much more danger in having deer drawn to a single pile of food as opposed to having deer dispersed throughout a food plot. However, I do have to agree that in such cases as a heavily bearing apple tree or acorn bearing oak tree there is little real difference. But, just because bad situations occur naturally with animals in the wild that does not justify adding to that unfortunate condition through widespread additional human intervention. And yes, there are other states that do not agree with our DEC on this issue or have simply decided that it is easier to avoid the feeding situation than to outlaw it. Also I agree that there are those that simply ignore the law, and we have no idea what the negative outcomes are that come from that illegal activity. We do know of this one result in PA. where it is also illegal to feed wildlife. In that case, they lost a very valuable developing resource because somebody else thought the PGC didn't know what they were talking about.

 

Look, I am not advocating one way or the other, I am merely stating what the DEC is trying to tell us. They are the ones that we pay the big bucks to research and learn and earn their college degrees in real animal biology ..... not us. Certainly we can all have an opinion on anything we wish to, but the credibility on this has to reside in the offices of the DEC. I am pretty sure that they have no motive for banning the practice of deer feeding unless they really believe what they are saying about the dangers of artificially concentrating deer populations. Frankly, I don't always agree with their conclusions and methods, but in the end, I have to admit that they are the ones charged with doing the studies, drawing the conclusions, and setting the appropriate regulations ...... not me.