DMP going up another 17% ....

[Doc]

Can anyone really imagine managing a statewide herd with all the wild habitat and climate and population variations that NYS has? Oh yes and then picture having the whole process politicized by the system of government to the point where deer management is only a tiny part of your duties. And then having to answer to a huge list of various "stakeholders" and trying to satisfy them all even though they have totally opposite requirements of the herd. And lets not forget all the other environmental responsibilities that take huge bites out of the meager resources that are begrudgingly allotted. And then the never ending carping and unreasonable demands from hunters for even more micro-managed species quality to go along with basic population control. Hunters always become armchair herd managers and all believe they can do a much better job at it than those who actually are educated and trained in the field and who actually have to go out and do the job. It always sounds like such an easy job when you have no real connection or responsibilities regarding that occupation. And then consider that deer are only one of the hundreds of species that they are mandated to manage.

 

Now there is a job that you couldn't pay me enough to take on ..... lol. But that doesn't stop us all from being absolute experts at it. Yeah, opinions are great as long as we don't start taking ourselves too seriously, and we actually keep in perspective what our real abilities are in that area of game management science.

[gjs4]

Can't wait for it to called tragic when the SZ has deer populations like the ADKS.

[Larry]

Wow been watching this from the side lines. Never ceases amaze me how the same guys complain about the DEC not giving out enough DMP's then they complain when they increase the number of DMP's.  

[Doc]

Wow been watching this from the side lines. Never ceases amaze me how the same guys complain about the DEC not giving out enough DMP's then they complain when they increase the number of DMP's.  

The DEC is truly in an absolute "No Win" position ..... All the time ..... lol. So much from the hunter's standpoint is subjective, and at completely all ends of opinion. We fight and battle in heated arguments about all these things where our only education is based on opinion. The DEC has to operate in the middle of all that emotion, chaos, and argument. And then on the very rare occasion that they do make a majority of hunters happy, there is some other political entity nipping at their heels ...... lol. And of course when they do arrive at some grand plan, we have Cuomo buying votes with the resources that the DEC needed to implement their plan. How on earth do they ever find men and women that are willing to endure all that?

[growalot]

 

So while I can pretty much guess that they don't often get it right, and have seen evidence of that in the past, there is nothing positive that I can suggest as a remedy. But I sure would like to hear what others have to suggest as a practical herd density estimation tool.

 

So I replied to the above Doc...and expected some thing similar to this in the response below you missed your calling you  should be head of the DEC ...lol....

 

Can anyone really imagine managing a statewide herd with all the wild habitat and climate and population variations that NYS has? Oh yes and then picture having the whole process politicized by the system of government to the point where deer management is only a tiny part of your duties. And then having to answer to a huge list of various "stakeholders" and trying to satisfy them all even though they have totally opposite requirements of the herd. And lets not forget all the other environmental responsibilities that take huge bites out of the meager resources that are begrudgingly allotted. And then the never ending carping and unreasonable demands from hunters for even more micro-managed species quality to go along with basic population control. Hunters always become armchair herd managers and all believe they can do a much better job at it than those who actually are educated and trained in the field and who actually have to go out and do the job. It always sounds like such an easy job when you have no real connection or responsibilities regarding that occupation. And then consider that deer are only one of the hundreds of species that they are mandated to manage.

 

Now there is a job that you couldn't pay me enough to take on ..... lol. But that doesn't stop us all from being absolute experts at it. Yeah, opinions are great as long as we don't start taking ourselves too seriously, and we actually keep in perspective what our real abilities are in that area of game management science.

 

[Doc]

So I replied to the above Doc...and expected some thing similar to this in the response below you missed your calling you  should be head of the DEC ...lol....

Sorry, but your point is going over my head. I don't get it.

[gjs4]

Never said they didn't issue enough-have lingered on the too many side for along time though.

If you don't know how many deer live in an area how do you know when there are too many and/or how many should be removed?

The Dec is a no win- but it is hard to see where they're managing anything being license sales. This is not what DEC is an acronym for.

Lots of empirical and devils advocate stances in this small forum- just think about the questions I posed and what factual tangible rebuttals there are(n't).

When the deer are gone- they're gone. Turkey season changed for most guys this spring... Didn't it?

[Doc]

Never said they didn't issue enough-have lingered on the too many side for along time though.

If you don't know how many deer live in an area how do you know when there are too many and/or how many should be removed?

The Dec is a no win- but it is hard to see where they're managing anything being license sales. This is not what DEC is an acronym for.

Lots of empirical and devils advocate stances in this small forum- just think about the questions I posed and what factual tangible rebuttals there are(n't).

When the deer are gone- they're gone. Turkey season changed for most guys this spring... Didn't it?

Ha-ha.... I think they have their hands full just trying to be all things to all people. By the time they get done with managing the politics of their job, there may not be a lot of time and resources left to do much else .... lol. It's amazing how they always come up with a total population number of deer every year. Ever wonder how they do that?

[wztirem]

So now if the ones that cant have a conversation can stay out of it. Why is it that Ny would not take a lesson from some other states and have something like..A tag a day in the high deer numbered area's? Take a doe,report and show tag when buying you next tag. If a hunter wanted 10 does then he could pay for them. If a guy wanted to manage his property and take out 40 does then he could pay for them. The state would make more money, the hunter would be happy and the herd would be healthy.

 

Clearly, the NYSDEC has addressed this issue concerning high deer populations in certain DMP's. The problem is that not enough does are taken. The success rates speak for themselves. The history of deer management in NY clearly shows that NY hunters have been given the opportunity to apply for multiple doe permits in areas overrun with deer. Long island and Putnam County are but two examples whereby one can apply for and receive two permits.

 

Harken back to twenty years or so ago when party permits were the norm in many areas. Nowadays hunting licenses permit a hunter to take multiple deer per the type of license.

 

Increased bag limits in many areas are a direct result of many of many factors. Take into consideration, fewer hunters afield, less days spent afield by hunters, access to hunting, food plots, QDM, AR, efforts by anti-hunting groups, failure to report ones kill, suburban sprawl, and poaching to name a few.

 

One can surely add more reasons for the increase in DMP's.

 

All in all the NYSDEC does a good job with limited resources. We should appreciate their efforts and their service to the hunters of NY.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Clearly, the NYSDEC has addressed this issue concerning high deer populations in certain DMP's. The problem is that not enough does are taken. The success rates speak for themselves. The history of deer management in NY clearly shows that NY hunters have been given the opportunity to apply for multiple doe permits in areas overrun with deer. Long island and Putnam County are but two examples whereby one can apply for and receive two permits.

 

Harken back to twenty years or so ago when party permits were the norm in many areas. Nowadays hunting licenses permit a hunter to take multiple deer per the type of license.

 

Increased bag limits in many areas are a direct result of many of many factors. Take into consideration, fewer hunters afield, less days spent afield by hunters, access to hunting, food plots, QDM, AR, efforts by anti-hunting groups, failure to report ones kill, suburban sprawl, and poaching to name a few.

 

One can surely add more reasons for the increase in DMP's.

 

All in all the NYSDEC does a good job with limited resources. We should appreciate their efforts and their service to the hunters of NY.

I agree with ya to a point. Its obvious that what they have been doing has not came close to fixing the problem. So instead of trying some ideas that are working in other states they just double up on something that was not working in the first place!

[gjs4]

Ha-ha.... I think they have their hands full just trying to be all things to all people. By the time they get done with managing the politics of their job, there may not be a lot of time and resources left to do much else .... lol. It's amazing how they always come up with a total population number of deer every year. Ever wonder how they do that?

Don't worry they had this years kill numbers last yr too

[Waldershrek]

Really bow hunters in general need to shoot more doe, seems everyone waits for a good buck...thus enter the crossbow... I know a lot of hunter that report doe take when tags are not filled(thinking they are helping the herd.) Lots of deer is not a good thing.. again DMP are issued to a large area dmu's. If your local herd is suffering don't shoot a doe.. you can manage your own area better than the Dec, if you stay within the law using permits available. My own place I try to get 10 doe removed every year..keeps population stable. If i have to I invite more people in, especially muzzloader to hit that number . Deer move and they are not your deer..I have bucks I have multiple pictures of get shot on neighboring properties. To minimises thaI leave a sanctuary or. But I don't get mad if a deer wanders off my property ...everyone buys a licence and is entitle to shoot what they are happy with.

 

Most of buddies want to wait until after the rut to shoot does, but then we only end up getting a couple as a group so their numbers are largely untouched from year to year.