Headspace Mysteries!

[jjb4900]

all parts are original and have matching #'s, the stamp on the receiver appears to be a wings on what I can best describe as being on a globe  with CE stamped right below, on the barrel right after the receiver is stamped "fxo aw" if that helps and it still has the rear elevation sights on it.....I also have an Oberrndorf which was rebarreled for 30-06...by me, which I now know was a big mistake.

[jjb4900]

and I just pulled out my other one and the receiver is stamped "Mauser Werke A.B. Oberndorf"

[wildcat junkie]

Could be...? A careful visual inspection would tell that tale.

Like Wildcat said earlier, it might just be the fairly weak factory offerings in that caliber. The battle stuff was actually pretty potent by comparison. Manufacturers have to build ammo to the lowest common denominator in this case.

Have fun and keep us posted.

The fear of litigation has American ammo makers loading the 8X57 waaaay down in pressure.

 

There are 1888 Commisiion rifles chambered in 8X57I that utilized a different bore/land geometry than the later 8X57IS (infantry Spitzer) cartridge which has an 8.2mm bore/8mm land configuration'

 

The former uses 8.07mm (.318") bullets while the latter uses the 8.2mm (.323) bullet. The Europeans assume that people using  weapons are somewhat more resposible than what our American corporate mentality believes. They load the 8X57IS to "adult" power levels. There are 2 pressure spec's. SAAMI (American) & CIP (European)

 

A good sound M98 action has been the basis of countless high pressure magnum cartridges & the 8X57 cartridge is the grand daddy of all .473" head cartridges that includes almost all of the medium bore non-magnum cartridges.

 

I load my 8X57 to 60,000psi Mv ranges. It is a mild recoiling sledge hammer, easily spitting out 200gr bullets @ just over 2700fps/3300ft# of energy.

 

The Military barrels love 200gr bullets in that Mv range.  If the throat is good, military 8X57 barrels can be used to make sporter weight tack drivers.

 

[RSRAINS]

The fear of litigation has American ammo makers loading the 8X57 waaaay down in pressure.

 

There are 1888 Commisiion rifles chambered in 8X57I that utilized a different bore/land geometry than the later 8X57IS (infantry Spitzer) cartridge which has an 8.2mm bore/8mm land configuration'

 

The former uses 8.07mm (.318") bullets while the latter uses the 8.2mm (.323) bullet. The Europeans assume that people using  weapons are somewhat more resposible than what our American corporate mentality believes. They load the 8X57IS to "adult" power levels. There are 2 pressure spec's. SAAMI (American) & CIP (European)

 

A good sound M98 action has been the basis of countless high pressure magnum cartridges & the 8X57 cartridge is the grand daddy of all .473" head cartridges that includes almost all of the medium bore non-magnum cartridges.

 

I load my 8X57 to 60,000psi Mv ranges. It is a mild recoiling sledge hammer, easily spitting out 200gr bullets @ just over 2700fps/3300ft# of energy.

 

The Military barrels love 200gr bullets in that Mv range.  If the throat is good, military 8X57 barrels can be used to make sporter weight tack drivers.

 

Nice to see someone knows some good powder to use Vihta Vuori N550

[wildcat junkie]

Nice to see someone knows some good powder to use Vihta Vuori N550

I get similar results with RL17.

[jjb4900]

If the #s match, I seriously doubt that is has headspace problems.

 

Find a competant gunsmith to check out the headspace & throat.t

the "Eagle on the Globe" stamping that I described earlier is actually an eagle on a circle that has a swastika inside.......found photos of stampings on the internet.

[pistolp71]

I think that rifle is too unsafe to own and you should sell it to me immediately! Obviously JK. That increases the value significantly.

[wildcat junkie]

the "Eagle on the Globe" stamping that I described earlier is actually an eagle on a circle that has a swastika inside.......found photos of stampings on the internet.

On the top center of the front receiver ring there should be a stamping. Either a number, a 3-letter code, or both. This will identify the manufacturer & the year of production.

 

Here is a LINK that will list the various codes.

[jjb4900]

On the top center of the front receiver ring there should be a stamping. Either a number, a 3-letter code, or both. This will identify the manufacturer & the year of production.

 

Here is a LINK that will list the various codes.

"CE" on top of receiver nearest barrel and "43" on rear near action.......... I came up with 1943 by J.P. Sauer and Sohn Gewehrfabrik, Suhl. it also has a marking on the barrel near the receiver "fxo aw" that I can't find an explanation for.

http://home.scarlet.be/p.colmant/k98kmarkings.htm

[wildcat junkie]

I think that rifle is too unsafe to own and you should sell it to me immediately! Obviously JK. That increases the value significantly.

Nearly all German late 30s/early40s made 98Ks had the Eagle/Swastika stamp. The Russian captured specemines had the marks struck over. While the E/S mark does increases the value over the Russian mutilated ones, it's not particularly rare.

 

An early Oberndorf, Brno, J.P. Sauer & Sohn, Mauser Werke, etc barreled action with milled bottom metal that is unmolested W/matching #s in good condition is worth @ least $500. The values can go up from there. One in the original stock is worth even more. I'm not sure if the stocks were amrked to match the actions.

 

I had a battlefield P/U 1943 J.P, Saure & Sohn that was a "duffle cut". It was given to me by a neighbor's widow when i was in my mid teens. I assume "Mike" had picked it up & did the "duffle cut" to ship it home. I only recently learned about "duffle cuts". Duffle cuts have the last several inches of the stock neatly sawn off where the last barrel band will conceal the cut. That allowed the dismantled barelled action/stock to fit within a duffle bag for shipment home as a war prize.

 

I threw the stock away in the late '50s & replaced it W/a Fajen sporter stock. In 2000 I hacked up the barreled action for a custom project. A few years back I discovered the "ce" code was for J.P. Sauer & Sohn. I had butched a completely orighinal rifle that was worth quite a lot of $$. It was in excellent condition & fit/finish on the action was superb for a wartime prodution rifle. It did have the sheet metal triggergaurd, but the floorplate was milled. Some of the stuff W/stamped floorplates are rough as a cob.

 

My brother gave me a "42" code (Oberndorf '38-'40) #s matched barrelled action in a cut down Bubba'd" stock. Unfortunately it had been re-blued & the makings were "smeared" severly diminishing the value as a collecter. I decided to file down the rear bridge to D&T the receiver for another custom rifle project.

[wildcat junkie]

"CE" on top of receiver nearest barrel and "43" on rear near action.......... I came up with 1943 by J.P. Sauer and Sohn Gewehrfabrik, Suhl. it also has a marking on the barrel near the receiver "fxo aw" that I can't find an explanation for.

http://home.scarlet.be/p.colmant/k98kmarkings.htm

I very seriuosly doubt that rifle has headspace problems.

[wildcat junkie]

"CE" on top of receiver nearest barrel and "43" on rear near action.......... I came up with 1943 by J.P. Sauer and Sohn Gewehrfabrik, Suhl. it also has a marking on the barrel near the receiver "fxo aw" that I can't find an explanation for.

http://home.scarlet.be/p.colmant/k98kmarkings.htm

According the the "fxo" BARREL CODE, that barrel would be correct (suhl) for the rifle.

[jjb4900]

I very seriuosly doubt that rifle has headspace problems.

I'm gonna have it checked out and then cleaned up and put back into use.....thanks for your help

[wildcat junkie]

I'm gonna have it checked out and then cleaned up and put back into use.....thanks for your help

Don't go overboard with the "clean up". You have a piece W/some collector value that will only increase W/time.

 

The action is of good pedigree & can witstand full power loads if everything checks out. I was knocking the primerss loose W/wildcat 8mm-06 A.I. loads in my action of the same vintage. Didn't faze the bolt/receiver in the least. Great metalurgy in that particular manufacture/year.

 

 

See if you can somehow get some of the Cabela's Sellier & Bellott bulk 8X57 ammo shipped. It's good stuf. powerful, accuratef & reasonalble.

[Lawdwaz]

Neat gun........do you have any pics you can post of it?

 

I've never been too interested in the older guns.  Ignorance of the styles/models etc has kept me looking the other way at a gun show or the range.  They always seemed so big and clunky to me but the history sure is a plus.  Of course I can see where others would be attracted at to them though.

[jjb4900]

Neat gun........do you have any pics you can post of it?

 

I've never been too interested in the older guns.  Ignorance of the styles/models etc has kept me looking the other way at a gun show or the range.  They always seemed so big and clunky to me but the history sure is a plus.  Of course I can see where others would be attracted at to them though.

I'll see what I can do as far as pics.....it is not in what you would call original condition......looks like the barrel was shortened and a new front sight added, and has a sporter stock of unknown manufacter, and someone did a horrendous tapping job for the scope mounts on the side of the receiver that you can tell is off just by eyeballing it....it was my grandfathers and one of the last wood stocked guns I own, just has that good gun feeling to it, so I'm gonna get it back in action for next year.

[wildcat junkie]

Neat gun........do you have any pics you can post of it?

 

I've never been too interested in the older guns.  Ignorance of the styles/models etc has kept me looking the other way at a gun show or the range.  They always seemed so big and clunky to me but the history sure is a plus.  Of course I can see where others would be attracted at to them though.

The 98K wasn't all that big & clunky. The "stepped" barrrel contour was the early 20th century version of fluted barrels. It allowed a stiffer barrel than what a straight taper would achieve at a given weight/barrel length. Just replacing the mlitary stock W/a sporter version will get the weight down to the 7#ish range W/the 23 1/2" "K" barrel.

 

Register on MAUSER CENTRAL go to the TECH TALK forum. Check out the various threads for code & other technical data. Best single source I know of for information on Mausers.

 

Right now, I have a total of 2 LR 98K actions, 2 LR VZ500 (commecial intermediate length) 98 actions (1 in a complete rifle) & 1 SR 98 Mexican Mauser action. I have several barrels W/good rifling/throats, 2 are the 29" Persian/29 vintage that will make excellent 8X68S magnum barrels @ 26". I also have a blank E.R. Shaw 6.5mm barrel that I want to use to make a modern +P+ 60K version of the 6.5X55 Swede. It will be a 6.5X55 version of my 8X57IS Oberndorf custom that will be my sons 1st enterfire rifle.. The 6,5 Swede @ 60 should spit out 120gr .264 NBTs @ about 3150fps.

Edited January 8, 2015 by wildcat junkie

[wildcat junkie]

I'll see what I can do as far as pics.....it is not in what you would call original condition......looks like the barrel was shortened and a new front sight added, and has a sporter stock of unknown manufacter, and someone did a horrendous tapping job for the scope mounts on the side of the receiver that you can tell is off just by eyeballing it....it was my grandfathers and one of the last wood stocked guns I own, just has that good gun feeling to it, so I'm gonna get it back in action for next year.

The original barrel should measure about 23 1/2" from the bolt face to the muzzle.

[jjb4900]

The original barrel should measure about 23 1/2" from the bolt face to the muzzle.

then maybe it wasn't cut? I'll try to post some pics tonight.

[thphm]

My Swede. New 24" bbl and stock and I have all of the orignal parts. First 3 shots , 140 gr. bullet in Lapua cases.at 100 yards.I did this one around 15 years ago , still groups very good.

[jjb4900]

some pictures

Edited January 9, 2015 by jjb4900

[RSRAINS]

Nice to see someone knows some good powder to use Vihta Vuori N550

So wild cat junkie have you ever dabbled in the 6ppc short range group game.

[wildcat junkie]

So wild cat junkie have you ever dabbled in the 6ppc short range group game.

No, I just dabble W/hunting rifles, but I do try to get the best accuracy from them.

 

My typical shot @ whitetails is about 240yds from a tripod stand that overlooks a 15 acre area that was selectively logged in '99.

 

Besides the 8mm-06 A.I. I also play W/a Wildcat 5mm Remington Centerfire conversion of the 5mm RFM. The Schroeder brass is formed from 22 Hornet case W/the heads turned down.

 

Surprisingly accurate for what it is.

 

100yds

 

 

200yds

 

I load .204 33gr Hornady Vmax bullets @ 1.515" OAL over 6.8gr Alliant 2400 @ 2450fps. 33gr Vmax on the left, 30gr Berger HP on the right.

 

OAL is too long to feed through the magazine so it is loaded single shot. Deadly on crows & groundhogs to 200yds +.

 

I just worked up a load for Schroeder 40gr FMJ RN @ 2100fps for gray squirrels. W/the same zero that has the 33gr Vmax bullets 2 1/2" high @ 100yds has the 40gr Schroeders dead on @ 50yds. Trajectory for the 40gr RN is 1" high @ 75yds, zero @ 100yds. OAL for the 40gr RN is 1.350". Also too long to cycle through the magazine, but loading shorter degrades accuracy.

Edited January 11, 2015 by wildcat junkie

[RSRAINS]

Nice to see someone still shows some interest in tweaking loads around to find the sweet spot of that rifle.

 

I have a friend of mine that has been shooting a 20 VarTarg and playing with the LT-32 powder and Berger Colum bullets and has be having great success out to 200 yards.

 

Keep the tweaking going on and I also enjoy reading your post.

[Lawdwaz]

No, I just dabble W/hunting rifles, but I do try to get the best accuracy from them.

 

My typical shot @ whitetails is about 240yds from a tripod stand that overlooks a 15 acre area that was selectively logged in '99.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What is your gun, chambering and bullet of choice? ( let me guess, fixed 4x glass )

 

What do you have for a rest on the tripod stand?