Federal match .22

[Hock3y24]

I picked up a box of 325 and didn't realize it was lead point. I only use the plated variety. $20 is what I paid and will sell for the same Broome county Binghamton area.

[dbHunterNY]

you must be talking about the Auto-Match white and black box.  almost all "match" or competition .22LR will be straight lead and not plated, for future reference.  I think that stuff is 1200fps so it should cycle in pretty much anything.

[wildcat junkie]

Isn't .22ir "Match" ammo usually subsonic?

 

Nothing wrong W/wax coated lead bullets as lomg as you don't carry them loose in your pocket.

Edited February 16, 2015 by wildcat junkie

[Hock3y24]

Yeah it is auto match sorry for the confusion, since I bought a 22 revolver today I guess I'll give them a go!

[dbHunterNY]

Isn't .22ir "Match" ammo usually subsonic?

 

Nothing wrong W/wax coated lead bullets as lomg as you don't carry them loose in your pocket.

 

from what I've seen match ammo is usually 1030-1085 fps standard rifle rated.  "standard velocity" is usually 1070-1085 fps and subsonic lower.  there is some match grade ammo out there that's 1100-1200 fps but it's not very common or the better stuff.

[wildcat junkie]

from what I've seen match ammo is usually 1030-1085 fps standard rifle rated.  "standard velocity" is usually 1070-1085 fps and subsonic lower.  there is some match grade ammo out there that's 1100-1200 fps but it's not very common or the better stuff.

The speed of sound is 1145 fps @ sea level, but a bullet can go "sonic" @ a lower velocity due to shape of the ogive & the fact that the air at the boundary layer will excede the speed of sound as it moves around the bullet thus creating a (sonic) shock wave. In some blunt nosed pistol bullets this can be less than 1,000 fps. I once won a $50 bet about the speed of sound (1145 fps) due to this (sonic) bullet terminology.

 

Maximum bullet instability occurs as the bullet breaks the sonic barrier as it leaves the muzzle & again when it goes "subsonic". Hence, the usual "subsonic" values of .22lr match ammunition.

 

The other side of it is to make the shape VLD W/a high BC minimizing the effect of the shock wave @ the muzzle & having a high enough Mv to stay well above the "sonic" barrier throughout the trajectory to the intended target.. This is the usual scnerio in CF rifle match ammo.

[dbHunterNY]

The speed of sound is 1145 fps @ sea level, but a bullet can go "sonic" @ a lower velocity due to shape of the ogive & the fact that the air at the boundary layer will excede the speed of sound as it moves around the bullet thus creating a (sonic) shock wave. In some blunt nosed pistol bullets this can be less than 1,000 fps. I once won a $50 bet about the speed of sound (1145 fps) due to this (sonic) bullet terminology.

 

Maximum bullet instability occurs as the bullet breaks the sonic barrier as it leaves the muzzle & again when it goes "subsonic". Hence, the usual "subsonic" values of .22lr match ammunition.

 

The other side of it is to make the shape VLD W/a high BC minimizing the effect of the shock wave @ the muzzle & having a high enough Mv to stay well above the "sonic" barrier throughout the trajectory to the intended target.. This is the usual scnerio in CF rifle match ammo.

 

subsonic in the context of what manufacturers print on the box with rated velocities is what I was referring to.  I'm with you conceptually for all the physical theory and ballistics.  I took calculus based physics through high school and a couple degrees worth in college.  actual speed of sound is relative like you said.  not sure what other perimeters got you 1145 fps.  like with the standard international model at sea level it's 1116.4 ft/s, but at a temperature assumed to be 59F.  for most practical purposes it's around 1100 fps so maybe that's related to manufacturers' printing subsonic skewed as a bit lower.  ironically I'm now off to NRA 22LR pistol competition. lol  I'll be throwing 1070 fps lead but slower being it's out of a pistol.

[wildcat junkie]

subsonic in the context of what manufacturers print on the box with rated velocities is what I was referring to.  I'm with you conceptually for all the physical theory and ballistics.  I took calculus based physics through high school and a couple degrees worth in college.  actual speed of sound is relative like you said.  not sure what other perimeters got you 1145 fps.  like with the standard international model at sea level it's 1116.4 ft/s, but at a temperature assumed to be 59F.  for most practical purposes it's around 1100 fps so maybe that's related to manufacturers' printing subsonic skewed as a bit lower.  ironically I'm now off to NRA 22LR pistol competition. lol  I'll be throwing 1070 fps lead but slower being it's out of a pistol.

I just saw another reference of 1126 fps so we can agree that it is more than 1100 fps under most atmospheric conditions in air.

 

I think my 1145 fps was taken from  Lyman literature a long time ago & I was quoting from memory.

 

Relative humidity, temperature, barometric pressure, altitude & even air polution can affect it to some degree.

 

Am I correct in stating that the speed will increase in direct proportion to the increase in air density?

 

I always like CCI standard velocity .22lr ammo. Green tag was good, but too expensive for my tastes. The last time I bought 22lr ammo it was in a rural S. Indiana convenience store that had a small gun counter. CCI "Sub Sonic" (not match mind you) was significantly more expensive than Std Vel & the Mv was within about 10 fps. I think it's called "marketing", but I coiuld be wrong.

 

My main use for .22lr is head shooting squirrels so accuracy is pretty important.

Edited February 17, 2015 by wildcat junkie

[Zem18]

What .22 revolver did you get? Better yet, where are you shooting it in these temps? (Apalachin here) If they don't work out for you, let me know and I may be interested to try in my .22 semi or rifle.

[Hock3y24]

I picked up a Rossi model 518 stainless looks to be made in the mid 90s And didn't have a scratch on it! It's a 6 shot ss 4" barrel with fully adjustable sites. Similar to this one. And tommorw I'll probably head to tioga sportsmans club or a friends house to shoot, should be mid 20s after noon! ($324 with tax out the door and original box, Mclains in west corners.)

Edited February 17, 2015 by Hock3y24

[Hock3y24]

I've tried cci mini mags, stingers, quiets, rem golden bullet, Winchester m-22, favorite is the minimags, the quiets are great for popping squriells out the back window, the golden bullets get a bad rap but I like them.

[wildcat junkie]

I've tried cci mini mags, stingers, quiets, rem golden bullet, Winchester m-22, favorite is the minimags, the quiets are great for popping squriells out the back window, the golden bullets get a bad rap but I like them.

.22lr guns can be particular about what ammo they like. Some aren't particular at all. You have to find what your particular weapon likes. I had a Remington 541T HB that would shoot Win T22s better than anything else I tried.

 

Nice pistol BTW.

[dbHunterNY]

I just saw another reference of 1126 fps so we can agree that it is more than 1100 fps under most atmospheric conditions in air.

 

I think my 1145 fps was taken from  Lyman literature a long time ago & I was quoting from memory.

 

Relative humidity, temperature, barometric pressure, altitude & even air polution can affect it to some degree.

 

Am I correct in stating that the speed will increase in direct proportion to the increase in air density?

 

I always like CCI standard velocity .22lr ammo. Green tag was good, but too expensive for my tastes. The last time I bought 22lr ammo it was in a rural S. Indiana convenience store that had a small gun counter. CCI "Sub Sonic" (not match mind you) was significantly more expensive than Std Vel & the Mv was within about 10 fps. I think it's called "marketing", but I coiuld be wrong.

 

My main use for .22lr is head shooting squirrels so accuracy is pretty important.

 

you see effects from changes in altitude mostly due to temperature and then pressure.  the speed, being speed of sound, is proportional but not directly proportional to air density that's related to pollution and humidity.  speed is equal to the square root of temp, gas constant, and specific heat.  ... or equal to the square root of a ratio with pressure and density within it among other things.  in the ideal physics world speed of sound would be independent from pressure or density but it's the real world with air that can change and isn't an ideal gas.  temperature has a big effect, pressure some effect, and density a smaller effect.  things that effect speed of sound have a similar effect on the speed of your bullet.

 

CCI standard 22LR is very common because it's cheap and accurate or consistent.  smaller volume, less demand, and that cost of loading change overs to load standard and subsonic ammo is what bumps up the price probably.  also you have to consider those words are normally in reference to match grade ammo with lesser tolerances and sometimes different processes.  CCI, Aguila, Eley, and SK seem to be ones I commonly see.  probably in that close order.

 

[dbHunterNY]

I've tried cci mini mags, stingers, quiets, rem golden bullet, Winchester m-22, favorite is the minimags, the quiets are great for popping squriells out the back window, the golden bullets get a bad rap but I like them.

 

I've found golden bullets to be a little inconsistent within a brick... all I've had seem to go bang though.  CCI mini-mags, Tactical-AR, and Choot'em stuff all seem to be very consistent.  I've single holed groups from a bench with them.  you have to consider the fun factor of shooting more rounds for less money with stuff like Rem golden bullets or say Win Wildcat stuff.  they all have their place.

[dbHunterNY]

I picked up a Rossi model 518 stainless looks to be made in the mid 90s And didn't have a scratch on it! It's a 6 shot ss 4" barrel with fully adjustable sites. Similar to this one. And tommorw I'll probably head to tioga sportsmans club or a friends house to shoot, should be mid 20s after noon! ($324 with tax out the door and original box, Mclains in west corners.)

 

nice.  they go bang for generations worth of fun.  much less of a pain to clean versus say my Ruger Mark III semi-auto.

[Pygmy]

I picked up a Rossi model 518 stainless looks to be made in the mid 90s And didn't have a scratch on it! It's a 6 shot ss 4" barrel with fully adjustable sites. Similar to this one. And tommorw I'll probably head to tioga sportsmans club or a friends house to shoot, should be mid 20s after noon! ($324 with tax out the door and original box, Mclains in west corners.)

Looks like a very nice rig. Hock...Congrats on the new toy..

 

Years ago I  I did some shooting with a friend's  S&W K22 combat masterpiece...What a beautiful, well balanced revolver !!

 

My first handgun , bought in 1973, was a S&W  K22 6"... It is a wonderful handgun and would be the very last handgun I would ever part with, but I still long for that little 4" combat masterpiece...

[ants]

Looks like a very nice rig. Hock...Congrats on the new toy..

 

Years ago I  I did some shooting with a friend's  S&W K22 combat masterpiece...What a beautiful, well balanced revolver !!

 

My first handgun , bought in 1973, was a S&W  K22 6"... It is a wonderful handgun and would be the very last handgun I would ever part with, but I still long for that little 4" combat masterpiece...

 

 

Gotta love the old Smith's.. I have a model 15 Combat Masterpiece. Pinned barrel.  No new revolver can touch it.

[Hock3y24]

Got to the range today and wow! Hitting little silhouettes at 25 yards was a breeze until about 200 rounds and the cylinder started to gunk up. I think it was mainly due to the cold and there being a little bit of oil in there. Da/sa both are effortless. It was dead on with minimags, about 6" high with the federal, the rem golden was all over the place!

[Zem18]

Nice piece and was a nice afternoon with all the sun. Hard to believe it was only 13 degrees.

I was at McClains a few weeks ago. He had all his long guns at the show in Albany when I went in so I looked at a few pistols and got an estimate on selling my .22 pistol too while I was there. Maybe ill see you at Tioga sometime when it gets warmer.

[Hock3y24]

For sure, there was only about 2 feet of snow I walked through to set up targets, think I'm good till the thaw.