Hornady 162 A Max in .280 Rem

[Pygmy]

A buddy of mine is planning a high country Colorado mule deer hunt this year and wants me to work up a good long range load for his .280 Rem..

He has done some research and has become very interested in the Hornady 162 grain .284 A Max.. With it's high BC (.625) it supposedly shoots flatter than most 140 grain bullets, even though the MV is lower.

I told him that if I can find a box, I'd try to work up a load for his rifle with that bullet. His rifle has performed well with a couple different 160 bullets ( Nosler partitions and Sierra Game Kings), so I have high hopes that it will group well with the Hornadys also.

Has anyone had experience loading this bullet in the .280 ?

[Pygmy]

I stopped by my buddy's place the other night and picked up his rifle, a box of  162 A max bullets ,50 brand new Norma cases and 100 primers..

 

The rifle is wearing a brand new bore sighted Vortex Viper 2.5 to 10....Looks like a nice scope, even if it is too big for my taste...I am looking forward to playing with it..

 

I decided I should check the bore before I spent a lot of time working up loads...

 

It was FILTHY !!  I don't think he has cleaned it since he bought the rifle in 1988 !!

 

I spent an hour scrubbing rust and copper fouling out of it, and as far as I can tell without a borescope, it's pretty clean now and I can see no pitting.. I checked out the muzzle crown and it looks OK...Hopefully the accuracy of the rifle hasn't been affected by neglect... The owner is primarily an archer, and he's not too firearms savvy..

 

Now the process begins...I'll  use a dummy round to establish starting seating depth, and then start some preliminary basic load testing..I have four powders available in the medium slow to slow range to work with...RL 19, RL 22, IMR 4350 and H4831..

[thphm]

Quite a few people are getting good results using the RL powder in the .280 round.

While you have the cleaning rod in the bbl. check the twist rate and see if it will like the 162 Gr. bullet.

[Pygmy]

Thanks for the reply, OMG..

I have a .280 and have had good luck with both RL 19 and RL 22 with 140 grain bullets..

Not sure of the twist without checking, but in 1989 I worked up loads for this same rifle with 160 Nosler partitions and 160 Sierra Gamekings, and it shot very well with both..That was with IMR 4350...

[Lawdwaz]

No doubt you'll find a decent shooting load for that A Max in the 280. 

 

What gun is it?

 

Being primarily an archer, I'd guess he hasn't spent too much time doing much longer range plinking?  Hopefully this summer (if we ever get one!) he can get some range time in and maybe a few shot off shooting sticks or bipod.

 

Keep us posted Dan.

[Pygmy]

Actually, Larry it is a M70 lightweight laminate stock identical to mine...I ordered them both at the same time and the serials #s are within 150 digits of each other...

 

Even not being a rifle guy, Kim is very meticulous and is a good rifle shot.   He's a real whizz with the bow also.. He has a B&C elk, several P&Y elk  and a number of P&Y whitetails on his wall..He doesn't have a mulie though...The area he is hunting, above treeline, makes it tough enough to get within good rifle range of a mature mule deer, much less bow range.

[Pygmy]

Finally got down to the brass tacks of load development..

I shot a 3/4" 3 shot group( 100 yards) this morning with my buddy's rifle..

162 Hornady Amax, 57.0 gr RL 22, CCI 200 primer and Norma brass...

I'll see if I can tweak it a little and increase the velocity a bit without sacrificing the accuracy...

I like the Vortex scope, especially the turrets with the nice positive 1/4 minute clicks..

[thphm]

Not bad should be - 6" - 7" at 300 yards.,a little bigger target then our whitetails. 

[Jaeger]

Quick question before you get too far along.

 

It was my understanding that the A Max line of bullets were primarily target bullets (I could be mistaken).

 

I know my .308 shoots 162 grain amax's superbly but I wouldn't hunt with them.  Maybe ok on whitetail but Muleys are tougher I think.

 

I'd double check with his outfitter on this bullet.

 

Another tip off is that target oriented bullets are often produced in non standard grain sizes, ex. .308 162 gr rather than 150, 165, 180, etc.

 

Better safe than sorry.

[Pygmy]

I appreciate your input, but I have done my research on this bullet before loading it..

Several sources stated that the bullet performs well on game..I haven't read any negative input regarding it's performance.. Actually it is constructed much like the Nosler Ballistic tip, which I have used on perhaps 20 head of medium game from pronghorns to 400 pound bull caribou and have had excellent terminal performance. As far as mule deer being any more of a challenge to bullet integrity, my experience is limited ( 2 bucks shot by me and 2 shot by my hunting partners), but they seem to be no harder to kill than whitetails..A mature muley usually is not much bigger than a good sized whitetail..I never weighed one, but I'm guessing perhaps 200 pounds dressed..

No checking with an outfitter..This is a DIY hunt being conducted by a very experienced DIY hunter...I know because I have done several DIY hunts with him..

Edited July 22, 2015 by Pygmy

[Lawdwaz]

Not bad should be - 6" - 7" at 300 yards.

 

Based on what?

Edited July 22, 2015 by Lawdwaz

[Jaeger]

I appreciate your input, but I have done my research on this bullet before loading it..

Several sources stated that the bullet performs well on game..I haven't read any negative input regarding it's performance.. Actually it is constructed much like the Nosler Ballistic tip, which I have used on perhaps 20 head of medium game from pronghorns to 400 pound bull caribou and have had excellent terminal performance. As far as mule deer being any more of a challenge to bullet integrity, my experience is limited ( 2 bucks shot by me and 2 shot by my hunting partners), but they seem to be no harder to kill than whitetails..A mature muley usually is not much bigger than a good sized whitetail..I never weighed one, but I'm guessing perhaps 200 pounds dressed..

No checking with an outfitter..This is a DIY hunt being conducted by a very experienced DIY hunter...I know because I have done several DIY hunts with him..

It's always great to learn from someone who has actually used and knows how it performs.  Thank you.

 

Perhaps I will use the 162 gr amax in my .308 this season, its a tikka compact lite and shoots easily around 1/2" with varget, a very confidence building load.  Getting about 2700fps, good enough for anything around here.

 

I guess I got scared off it as a hunting bullet from the hornady description.  First hand knowledge is always best!

[Pygmy]

I do NOT have personal experience with this bullet, but I have done some online research and have reports from some people who have taken game with it...There are some negative reports, but the positive reports out number them about 3 to 1... From the reports I have read, the bullet performs similar to the EARLY ballistic tips...Works great on broadside shots on the ribs but avoid heavy bone, ESPECIALLY if you are pushing it at magnum velocities..  At .280 velocities and considering the fact that the shooter will most likely be shooting at extended ranges, I expect that the bullet will work fine for deer.

[Pygmy]

Well, my buddy's rifle is ready to go back to him...

 

With 58.0 grains of RL-22 and the 162 Hornady Amax it consistently groups about an inch ( 3 shots) at 100 yards..I have it sighted  3 inches high at 100...I loaded up all of his brass and scrubbed his barrel again..

 

He is taking it to a 600 yard range  that his hunting buddy owns to put it through its paces, and in about a month he'll be above treeline in Colorado looking for a high country mulie..

[Larry]

Just to let you know that the A-Max bullet is a target bullet. It may be good for white tails and mule deer but you may not get penetration, on larger game like Elk. I would use something like a IB bullet in the same weight in stead of a A-Max

[Lawdwaz]

Just to let you know that the A-Max bullet is a target bullet. It may be good for white tails and mule deer but you may not get penetration, on larger game like Elk. I would use something like a IB bullet in the same weight in stead of a A-Max

 

 

Your points have already been addressed in this thread by the OP. 

[Pygmy]

Thanks for your input, Larry...

 

If I were to hunt elk with my .280, I'd use the same 140 grain Barnes TTSX that I would use for deer, and still be confident of having an exit hole on a broadside shot.

 

However, if I ever do hunt elk with a centerfire rifle, I'll probably use my 9.3x62 with a 250 grain Barnes TSX, which will probably leave an exit hole regardless of  the shot angle.

[Pygmy]

I returned my friend's rifle to him a week ago with all of his cases loaded...

He shot it last weekend and is very pleased with the results..It's shooting sub MOA out to 400 yards, which is his outside range limit..

Sighted three inches high at 100 yards, the rifle is back on zero at 260 yards and 14 inches low at 400..

Hopefully in a month or so I'll be able to post a picture of a big mule deer buck that he shoots with it.

[Pygmy]

Update....My buddy killed a nice mulie with my reloads...Must be the loads worked OK..

He sent me an email picture of the deer, but I don't have the computer savvy to post it..

Can anybody help me out ? PM me if you you can..

[shawnhu]

What a beauty. Thanks for showing us Dan.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

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[Lawdwaz]

Dandy buck!

Details on the shot and autopsy results?

How about the service he employed for research, happy with that? ( I know the proof is in the pudding as a dead buck resulted but curious if he'd use them again)

Eagerly awaiting replies.......

[Pygmy]

Not a lot of details yet...He shot the buck at 245 yards according to his rangefinder.

It was not the buck he was looking for . He looked over 28 bucks and saw only one real bruiser ( 200 class)..He said his stalk was goofed up by a sheep hunter.. He shot this buck on the last day of his hunt to avoid eating the tag. Had to pack it 2.5 miles and up 1000feet in elevation. He did say that this was the the most physically demanding hunt he has ever done and he has done some tough ones.

At this point , since he got to look over that many bucks in a week'shunt, I would guess he is happy with the service that he received from Antlerquest, but I won't get the details until he gets home..

[Lawdwaz]

Damn those sheep hunters! 

 

 

Good information, hopefully you'll get some finer details only because that's the fun stuff! 

 

 

 

[ckbailey97]

I went in with Kim, carried a camera and helped him scout. We shoot archery together on Weds nights.  

 

The gun and ammo worked flawlessly, and I was amazed at the accuracy.  When we got up to 13,000 ft on our way in we stopped the truck before the final hike in, and Kim wanted to check the gun, and make sure that the major change in elevation didn't affect anything too much.  He fired two rounds at 100 yards at a chew can sized target. He placed both shots well within the target at the upper half - about that 1" high at 100 yards. It was Monday afternoon before Saturday opener of HC Rifle. We had 1 evening and 4 full days to scout. 

 

It was beautiful country, not my first time out there and we saw lots of bucks and very few of what we were looking for. We were out there specifically for a 200 inch buck. We worked all year before hand so we could recognize what a 200 inch buck looked like. We saw 1, and that was the second day of hunting. Here's camp. No good pic of 200 incher - he was 3 miles away. 

 

 

Our next best buck was this one. I saw him Thursday before Saturday opener, right behind camp, He got as close as 150 yards from me. We scouted Friday elsewhere, staying out of his bedroom, only to have an Elk hunter move in Friday night behind us in camp, and start still hunting down through his bedroom. We never saw him again. 

 

   

 

Sunday afternoon Kim saw the 200 incher, and we set up a plan to go after him Monday morning. We covered 4.7 miles of hiking to get to set up for him and never saw him, or his does.  It was a double cut, and he wasn't in ours. We didn't want to push him, so stayed put for the day and watched for him. The only thing we saw was a bunch of sheep including one nice ram. 

 

 

We headed back to camp, and on our way to camp we passed a new campsite with 5 guys. Asked what they were after and they said "Sheep".  Uh-oh.  Well you guessed it, the next morning we headed back up to where Mr Big was, and passed the guys still in camp well before daylight. We got set up in the same canyon cut, and saw nothing.  Mid-day we decided to move up into the other cut, and the entrance which was only about 40 yards wide was blocked by two of the guys. We told them we wanted to head up in and take a look for the buck, and they said they had a hunter up there, a Dr., who had waited 17 years for his tag. We informed them that Kim had also waited 17 years for his High Country draw and they told us that if we went up, we would be interfering with a hunt which was against the law in Colorado. If we came within 150 yards of their hunter.  We then asked where they had come up through and why we hadn't seen them, and they told us they came through below us. Yes, 80 yards below our shelf we had been glassing off of. They were even as bold as to tell us they knew where we were and didn't want any issues. Seems a guide can get within 150 yards of you hunting, but not vice versa in their minds. I realize that guy paid big bucks for them to guide him, but a tag is a tag. It was a bad situation.  

 

Anyways, our hunt was ruined, so we backed out and headed back for camp. The only buck in our hopeful range was gone. 

 

Wednesday we woke and decided to once again split up to glass. Kim headed back for the glassing spot where he had seen the 200 incher, and I headed for a nearby ridgeline above our basin. I told Kim I would make signals to him with my hat if I saw anything. I glassed the opposite side of my ridge and spotted 3 deer, with one being a smaller buck, and one larger, but I needed to move to get a better look at him. I turned to look at Kim and spotted 3 bucks in our basin. He was on the far side of the basin.  The 3 were above him.  I looked below myself, and 5 bucks were below me by a creek I had crossed. Our Basin was a big meadow, and they were all feeding. Below me, the group had one buck that wasn't horrible. Probably in the 140 range, not like the 170 above, but better than a tag sandwich, and I signaled to Kim there were bucks below he should take a look at.  I scoped the bucks and put my binocs on Kim.  He had a doe standing 15 yards below him staring at him. I was watching him and the doe, and she takes off, and then I hear the shot. I switch to the scope to see the buck down.  He wasn't anywhere hear what we were hoping for, but a fine first buck, and far better than a tag sandwich. 

 

 

 

As far as Antler Quest goes. I have hunted with them twice, and he knows where the game is. BUT - both times I hunted, we dealt with people. Other hunters and hikers.  When you're hunting muley's, the hikers don't really bother them much, so that's not a big deal. You have to also keep in mind that Jeff Coldwell has to do the scouting by himself. And he has alot of ground to cover, and has to be able to tell the hunter how to get there. So, he's not going to really get too far off of main trails. I would expect to see game, and see shooter animals. We were 1 for 3 last year with Muzz for Muleys, but we all had shots, and I hit a 170 in no mans land, stupidly forgetting about the fact that I was on an extremely steep hillside, and he was 150 yards, but shot like 100. I hit where I was aiming. But - expect to see people too. More than he tells you you'll see.  

 

I will use his service again. It's worth it. If you go with a couple of guys you split his fee, and he scouts for you.  If you're unable to get to Colorado to scout for yourself for $800 (or a portion of that if you're a group), then I would use him.  

 

I'm heading back this year for Elk, first rifle with my buddies. Taking the 308, and hoping Pygmy can work me up a load.  This year archery and gun was good to me. Maybe it was Karma from going with Kim and busting my butt. I don't know, but I don't expect another year like that any time soon. Both NY bucks. One in Livingston County and one in Allegany. 

 

   

 

[BKhunter]

Looks like an awesome trip. I'm trying to start planning DIY hunts out west and trying to make it an annual thing. Last year I bought an antelope and elk point for WY and plan on buying more states and game this year. Hopefully I can make my first trip in 2017 as I have a lot of reading and planning to do. Also need to find some companions to join me as some of these beasts will not be fun to pack out solo. Congrats on a job well done.