Senate Passes Bill to Allow Moose Hunting in NY

[Lawdwaz]

 

 

I had never heard of SCI before.  I would say it sounds an awful lot like an organization comprised of ADK "landowners", most of which are in fact from down or out of state (Jersey).  

 

Could be some ADK "landowners" in SCI but it has nothing to do with the the 'Daks OR NJ.

 

http://www.scifirstforhunters.org/

 

Plenty of reading info there for you if you'd like.

 

[jjb4900]

I'd like to see the Eastern Moose that yields 1000 lbs of meat, that would be a giant...........and I have no doubt that more than one person on this board and family, would, and can consume a whole moose in a year without a problem.

[Lawdwaz]

and I have no doubt that more than one person on this board and family, would, and can consume a whole moose in a year without a problem.

 

A challenge?????    I love to give it a shot!

 

I'd think my family would come up short.  We can consume 4-5 boned out deer in a year.  What do those deer yield, maybe 30lbs of raw meat? So 120-150lbs or so? 

 

Not sure what one of our moose would yield boned out but MAYBE 300lbs?   Clueless here and don't want to Google it now............gotta run. 

[jjb4900]

A challenge?????    I love to give it a shot!

 

I'd think my family would come up short.  We can consume 4-5 boned out deer in a year.  What do those deer yield, maybe 30lbs of raw meat? So 120-150lbs or so? 

 

Not sure what one of our moose would yield boned out but MAYBE 300lbs?   Clueless here and don't want to Google it now............gotta run. 

300 lbs is about right......I should have said family & friends.

[Mr VJP]

I do not see any evidence NY state, including the DEC has anything to do with this bill. 

 

Let me ask you something, you are in Long Island correct? I am about 5 hours from there. If I  my assembly rep and senate rep introduced a set of bills relating to something like striped bass or summer flounder or shellfish, wouldn't you find that strange? 

 

I'm nowhere near LI.  I don't even reside in NY anymore.  Used to live in central NJ when I was younger, but that was near Staten Island.

 

Strange maybe, but not out of the question.  NY is currently very concerned about the downturn in hunting license sales.  What does it matter who wants to propose a bill to allow more hunting opportunity in the state?

Edited June 20, 2015 by Mr VJP

[Mr VJP]

Currently, you can hunt moose in Maine, VT and NH.  There have been moose sightings in CT and RI.  I'm not sure about Mass.  Why does the concept of moose hunting in the ADK region of NY seem so weird to so many folks?

 

Heck, they hunt trophy Elk in PA these days. 

[Lawdwaz]

300 lbs is about right......I should have said family & friends.

 

I'm pretty stingy with my meat.

 

 

Most friends are going to be SOL if I ended up with one of those big bastids......... 

[scolopaxmatt]

Could be some ADK "landowners" in SCI but it has nothing to do with the the 'Daks OR NJ.

 

http://www.scifirstforhunters.org/

 

Plenty of reading info there for you if you'd like.

 

 

Thanks for the link.  

[mike rossi]

What exactly is the point of this post?

 

Are you saying hunters from the city do not own vehicles that can transport a quartered moose?

Are you saying hunters from the city don't process and/or eat what they shoot?

Are you saying hunters from the city can't handle the challenges of moose hunting?

 

Please clarify, I await your reasoning with bated breath.

 

The point of this post is Who walked into the offices of two buffalo area lawmakers and not only convinced them to introduce a moose bill, but compelled them to work at moving it.....

[mike rossi]

I'm nowhere near LI.  I don't even reside in NY anymore.  Used to live in central NJ when I was younger, but that was near Staten Island.

 

Strange maybe, but not out of the question.  NY is currently very concerned about the downturn in hunting license sales.  What does it matter who wants to propose a bill to allow more hunting opportunity in the state?

 

You live in the state of Maine, I know who you are...

 

And who does it seem weird too? I am not opposing it, nor am I aware of anyone or organization who has weighed in against it so far. I am not sure the DEC will go for it though....

Edited June 21, 2015 by mike rossi

[mike rossi]

Could be some ADK "landowners" in SCI but it has nothing to do with the the 'Daks OR NJ.

 

http://www.scifirstforhunters.org/

 

Plenty of reading info there for you if you'd like.

 

 

Remember I said there was a chapter right in the same town as the assemblyman? and the senator is about 19 miles from that town....   But hey, why pay attention to details.... 

Edited June 21, 2015 by mike rossi

[mike rossi]

What exactly is the point of this post?

 

Are you saying hunters from the city do not own vehicles that can transport a quartered moose?

Are you saying hunters from the city don't process and/or eat what they shoot?

Are you saying hunters from the city can't handle the challenges of moose hunting?

 

Please clarify, I await your reasoning with bated breath.

 

Your breath is baited with bovine feces.... Would it be enough to answer NO, I am not saying any of that?

 

Just because you or someone else has the resources to do any of the things you list, doesn't mean the majority of people do as well. I would say, that in terms of increasing hunting opportunity and/or recruiting hunters, moose hunting is not the best path. If you cant understand that, oh well... 

[Mr VJP]

What would you say is the best path?  

 

Seems to me moose hunting in the ADK region would be great hunting opportunity for the hunters who live in that region.

 

It's also a renewable resource that can benefit a lot of people in that area.

 

I hope they do allow it and don't really care who was the influential party that got it done.  Even if upper class hunters got it done, if it's allowed on a lottery basis, they don't have any more chance of hunting moose than any average hunter does.

 

BTW, the next time you're in Maine, stop in and say "Hi".

 

 

Edited June 21, 2015 by Mr VJP

[jjb4900]

Your breath is baited with bovine feces.... Would it be enough to answer NO, I am not saying any of that?

 

Just because you or someone else has the resources to do any of the things you list, doesn't mean the majority of people do as well. I would say, that in terms of increasing hunting opportunity and/or recruiting hunters, moose hunting is not the best path. If you cant understand that, oh well... 

I think you're underestimating the amount of hunters in NY who have the means and resources to hunt moose in NY should the opportunity arise....

[Lawdwaz]

Remember I said there was a chapter right in the same town as the assemblyman? and the senator is about 19 miles from that town....   But hey, why pay attention to details.... 

 

While we are paying attention.........note my post was in reference to the questions posed in post #48 in this thread. 

 

The poster hadn't heard of SCI before and I merely posted a response about ADK landowners and a link to SCI's main web site.

 

 

[mike rossi]

A moose season would create a modest increase in hunting opportunity for a minority of hunters. It would also create a modest increase in conservation and general economic revenue.

 

A moose season would not appeal to non-hunters and would have no value in recruiting new hunters or in enabling older hunters to hunt longer. It would not benefit people who are physically or financially challenged. That includes people who may not have a barn or garage or backyard to process an animal even as large as a deer much less a moose. Even if quartered in the field, a vehicle must be at least so big. The rack of a bull moose alone is huge - no doubt this is what most hunters are after, not the meat. 

 

The origin of the legislation in both houses, is Erie County, Moose range would be at least four hours from Buffalo, probably double that to a hunting location. SCI is an organization whose members are primarily interested in trophy animals. Moose get quite large, including the antlers. There happens to be a SCI chapter located in Erie County, in the same town as one of the bill sponsors, as a matter of fact, that is the town of East Aurora. The members of the SCI are generally wealthy - as their passion involves traveling internationally and purchasing tags often over $10,000. I have heard of some paying well over $100,000 for several tags on a hunt. Wealthy people often have a more direct pipe to lawmakers than the average person. A NY moose season does not benefit the average hunter as much as it does a wealthy hunter. It certainly is of little benefit to the average hunter who resides in Erie county. Establishing new hunting seasons is very difficult. Although this bill still needs to clear the assembly and the governor, it seemed to had cleared the senate rather seamlessly. The ease at which it cleared the senate leads a reasonable and prudent person to question whether this was not a political favor, especially considering the location of the sponsors in relation to the NY moose population.....

 

 

 

 

[growalot]

He does have some really good points ....

[jjb4900]

But, a wealthy trophy hunter, is not going to travel to New York, Maine, Vermont or New Hampshire in search of a "trophy" Moose.......not to mention, why would they play around for years and years applying for a permit they will probably never get?.......I haven't looked into it, but it is it a fact that SCI are a driving force behind this? I actually look at this as a "poor mans" moose hunt and actually something the actual "average" hunter could pull off.

Edited June 22, 2015 by jjb4900

[mike rossi]

"In 2007 the NY Legislature earmarked $50,000 of PUBLIC FUNDS  for the SCI"

Source: Line 25 of  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safari_Club_International

 

Will, a good guy, but Larry is right again:   http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/outdoors/will-elliotts-hunting-moose-hunt-bountiful-20141012

 

According to the HSUS: The average SCI member earns over $100,000 a year and only 6% of the hunters in the US earn that much.

 

SCI is a 501c. 

Conservation, outdoor education, and humanitarian services

What is a 501c:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501©_organization

 

A 501© organization, also known colloquially as a 501©, is a tax-exempt nonprofit organization in the United States. Section 501© of the United States Internal Revenue Code (26 U.S.C. § 501©) provides that 29 types of nonprofit organizations are exempt from some federal income taxes. Sections 503 through 505 set out the requirements for attaining such exemptions. Many states refer to Section 501© for definitions of organizations exempt from state taxation as well. 501© organizations can receive unlimited contributions from individuals, corporations, and unions.

 

Donating trophy mounts to museums is tax deductible

 

Did I mention that in 2007 the NY Legislature earmarked $50,000 of public funds for the SCI? 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2015 by mike rossi

[mike rossi]

But, a wealthy trophy hunter, is not going to travel to New York, Maine, Vermont or New Hampshire in search of a "trophy" Moose.......not to mention, why would they play around for years and years applying for a permit they will probably never get?.......I haven't looked into it, but it is it a fact that SCI are a driving force behind this? I actually look at this as a "poor mans" moose hunt and actually something the actual "average" hunter could pull off.

 

 

Did you know one New England state auctions 3 of the permits allocated in the quota? Did you know the SCI itself also manages to auction off tags - I dont know exactly how that works but it is done.

 

So now, wealthy people really have few competitors in such an auction I would say... Plus it fits right into their ego - I can buy anything right out from others..... Silly lotteries are for peasants.... 

 

Auctioning tags is NOT consistent with the Public trust Doctrine, The North American Wildlife Conservation Model, nor the mission statement of the NY DEC or any other state wildlife agencies.... Yet it is done.... 

[jjb4900]

Did you know one New England state auctions 3 of the permits allocated in the quota? Did you know the SCI itself also manages to auction off tags - I dont know exactly how that works but it is done.

 

So now, wealthy people really have few competitors in such an auction I would say... Plus it fits right into their ego - I can buy anything right out from others..... Silly lotteries are for peasants.... 

 

Auctioning tags is NOT consistent with the Public trust Doctrine, The North American Wildlife Conservation Model, nor the mission statement of the NY DEC or any other state wildlife agencies.... Yet it is done.... 

I have heard of those auctions, but I figure the guy who could never afford a $5000.00 - $20,000.00 Moose hunt out of State or Country, would be more then willing to throw a few bucks into a lottery for a chance at a hunt that would cost him thousands less.

Edited June 22, 2015 by jjb4900

[Mr VJP]

Mike, I don't see where you address the question of the permits being issued strictly on a lottery basis, like the Elk permits in PA are issued.

 

I do not think SCI members are too involved in the Elk hunts in PA every year.

 

If permits are only available to winners in a lottery, everyone, of any income bracket, has an equal chance of winning.  How is that a problem?  How does that put SCI members at an advantage?

 

States that decide to do auctions for some permits do it for the money.  The huge amounts paid for these permits is a bonus for the state's F&W Dept.  That's why they do it.  It's not done to favor rich people.

 

[mike rossi]

First, what is this all about:  " in 2007 the NY Legislature earmarked $50,000 of public funds for the SCI"?

 

Someone said they were a member of the SCI I thought, they should know about these auctions, As I said, I do not know much more than that they exist.

 

One state, I do not remember which, sets aside three of the allotted permits and auctions them. Actually an organization does the auctioning, Reportedly, the state does get the money.

 

The SCI is known for auctioning tags for things like rhinos. I dont know how they buy the tags from foreign countries and the specifics about transferring them, I just am aware this practice takes place. 

 

If NY implemented such an auction, anyone with a lot of money would have an advantage to drawing a tag.It would probably between themselves and another SCI member. They would have another option to the lottery draw, and one or more permits would be taken out of the available pool.

 

Is that going to happen, I do not know. Are there people in this state with political connections who would like to see that happen, apparently yes.... 

[Mr VJP]

Well, then I suggest we address that issue when it becomes reality.  As of now, the reality is moose hunting in NY may become reality, and I for one am glad that's the case, regardless of how it comes about.

 

I would think a search of the net would get you the answer to why SCI got money from NY.  They were probably doing some conservation in NY with it.

 

When SCI auctions tags for something like a Rhino, it is with full cooperation from the government of the country the hunt will happen in.  The country uses those funds for conservation and poacher control.  The country usually finds SCI to be the best organization for auctioning the tags, since they absorb the cost of the auction and have the ability to get the most money for the tag.  Anyone can bid on the tag, even if they are not an SCI member.

 

I'm really confused by your animosity to one of the world's biggest conservation organizations that is also in the forefront of the anti-poaching movement.  I sense a great deal of class envy in your posts.

 

 

 

[mike rossi]

Well, then I suggest we address that issue when it becomes reality.  As of now, the reality is moose hunting in NY may become reality, and I for one am glad that's the case, regardless of how it comes about.

 

I would think a search of the net would get you the answer to why SCI got money from NY.  They were probably doing some conservation in NY with it.

 

When SCI auctions tags for something like a Rhino, it is with full cooperation from the government of the country the hunt will happen in.  The country uses those funds for conservation and poacher control.  The country usually finds SCI to be the best organization for auctioning the tags, since they absorb the cost of the auction and have the ability to get the most money for the tag.  Anyone can bid on the tag, even if they are not an SCI member.

 

I'm really confused by your animosity to one of the world's biggest conservation organizations that is also in the forefront of the anti-poaching movement.  I sense a great deal of class envy in your posts.

 

You communicate like a child, a spoiled one at that. 

 

I will address your trademark ad-hominid arguments  first - this time directed at me. I don't envy anyone. They disgust me, as do bigots....  I have experience with both, bigots who carry on with their annoying and worthless drivel nobody really cares about..... And the rich. As a matter of fact I worked as a hunting guide for operations catering to these people, Lets just say they have more bucks than brains.....

 

Second, why are you telling me I should  do a net search? Since you know everything that's wrong with the world, and its people,  why don't YOU do a net search and report back on here as to why the SCI received $50,000 in public funds from the NY state legislature? It is not common for an SCI member to pay that much for tags  or even one tag, why do they need public money, even if it is to do public service as you suggested? And I doubt it was a conservation activity as you surmise. Give us some public money and we will get some conservation done..... You do a net search instead of broadcasting your opinions just one time maybe....

 

You are not connecting the dots, as usual. The auctioning of tags done by the SCI which is apparently allowed by some foreign governments is not in contention. The point is, that this is already done with moose permits in a New England state and possibly elsewhere in the US for elk or goat tags or whatever. An auction which is different than a lottery, puts someone with money at a greater advantage in obtaining a tag. I think that advantage is very appealing to the SCI and would not be surprised if they would endorse such a policy in NY. I wont waste my time getting into the fine points about all the reasons auctioning tags is wrong, that type of philosophy doesn't reach you and I think others can figure it out.