CWD correlation

[wdswtr]

We havent had a good CWD discussion in a while .   I got pals in Michigan that are now in a CWD zone.  After a chat about it one of them is saying they need to forgo the monster buck and go after the the young bucks to stop the spread.  I just shook my head with no answer.  After some thought I went searching.  A Wisconsin study showed that up to 18% of positive cases were Adult bucks, up to 7% adult does, up to 6% yearling bucks and up to 5% yearling does.  Maybe Im reaching here but I see a correlation.  Boone and Crockett top 10 big buck states from #1 to #10.

Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Texas, Missouri, Kentucky, Kansas, Ohio, Michigan.  All but one being Kentucky has reported cases of CWD.  With Wisconsin's study and the top 10 big buck states all but 1 having CWD cases am I off my rocker to say Older class trophy whitetails and CWD seem to go hand in hand? 

 

[growalot]

Well I haven't taken any real heat for a while...so let me jump in with this

 

Your summary makes sense in that with all animals or humans, in aging we loose our ability to fight off outside attacks to our systems...So it only makes sense that older mature buck that go through the harsh rigors of a yearly rut, would be more susceptible to disease.

Edited October 10, 2015 by growalot

[Four Season Whitetail's]

We havent had a good CWD discussion in a while .   I got pals in Michigan that are now in a CWD zone.  After a chat about it one of them is saying they need to forgo the monster buck and go after the the young bucks to stop the spread.  I just shook my head with no answer.  After some thought I went searching.  A Wisconsin study showed that up to 18% of positive cases were Adult bucks, up to 7% adult does, up to 6% yearling bucks and up to 5% yearling does.  Maybe Im reaching here but I see a correlation.  Boone and Crockett top 10 big buck states from #1 to #10.

Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Texas, Missouri, Kentucky, Kansas, Ohio, Michigan.  All but one being Kentucky has reported cases of CWD.  With Wisconsin's study and the top 10 big buck states all but 1 having CWD cases am I off my rocker to say Older class trophy whitetails and CWD seem to go hand in hand? 

Yup and now tell me that if CWD is the killer they say...For the last 10 years or so..how in the world are these mature bucks living long enough to grow record class bucks year in and year out?  Cant have it both ways.  Cant tell me CWD is a killer when all those states are tops in the books year after year and not miss a beat.  CWD is killing nothing.

 

Tell your buddies not to change their ways because of CWD. If they are trophy only then stick to it. Wisconsin and Illinois have most of the cases and hundreds of hunters still pay thousands$ every year just to hunt there!

 

I have to ask...How close do your buddies live to the testing and research facility in Michigan?   Again...Cases found around where man sticks his nose into mother natures business.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Well I haven't taken any real heat for a while...so let me jump in with this

 

Your summary makes sense in that with all animals or humans, in aging we loose our ability to fight off outside attacks to our systems...So it only makes sense that older mature buck that go through the harsh rigors of a yearly rut, would be more susceptible to disease.

Kinda like people and cancer...Yes a few young get it but mostly old. Some stuff in this world like cancer and CWD that will never be cured or understood.  We can and have lived thru CWD.

[wdswtr]

I have to agree and that was my point. Just something else man feels the need to make a mess of.

[knehrke]

Wow, this gets old fast. Most age-related neurodegenerative diseases progress slowly. The longer you live, the more likely something will go wrong. Deer probably don't live long enough to see the worst of it. People do.

 

Most neurodegenerative diseases aren't catching. But prion diseases are transmittable, though the precise mechanism isn't well understood. Like Alzheimers, Parkinsons, Huntingtons and a variety of other diseases, people survive. But it sucks. 

 

CWD is limited to deer, for now. I have absolutely no opinion on management options in the face of an outbreak. But it's like looking both ways before crossing the street: be aware, wear gloves when gutting, and don't eat the brain 

 

I'm not pushing an agenda. I'm not with a regulatory agency and I don't own a deer farm; in fact, I've never seen a deer with CWD. But it's silly to claim that there's no risk and that we just need to deal with it. You know that there's a promising new treatment for pancreatic cancer that came out of biomedical research recently? Lots of people who wouldn't have had a hope ten years ago are going to benefit. You don't know what's curable until you try. But you can't cure it until you understand it, and until that time historical precedent demands caution.

[Doc]

Wow, this gets old fast. Most age-related neurodegenerative diseases progress slowly. The longer you live, the more likely something will go wrong. Deer probably don't live long enough to see the worst of it. People do.

 

At first, that was my take on it all. It stands to reason that the more years you are around to be exposed to a disease, the higher rate of incidence you are going to see. But one does have to wonder why the positive cases in mature bucks is 18%, but the positive cases in mature does is only 7%. That seems to be a very significant difference based only on gender. So maybe it really isn't all about age.

[sampotter]

At first, that was my take on it all. It stands to reason that the more years you are around to be exposed to a disease, the higher rate of incidence you are going to see. But one does have to wonder why the positive cases in mature bucks is 18%, but the positive cases in mature does is only 7%. That seems to be a very significant difference based only on gender. So maybe it really isn't all about age.

 

Maybe it's a new deer STD? Older bucks surely have more sexual partners than does of the same age... (I am not really being serious here.)

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Wow, this gets old fast. Most age-related neurodegenerative diseases progress slowly. The longer you live, the more likely something will go wrong. Deer probably don't live long enough to see the worst of it. People do.

 

Most neurodegenerative diseases aren't catching. But prion diseases are transmittable, though the precise mechanism isn't well understood. Like Alzheimers, Parkinsons, Huntingtons and a variety of other diseases, people survive. But it sucks. 

 

CWD is limited to deer, for now. I have absolutely no opinion on management options in the face of an outbreak. But it's like looking both ways before crossing the street: be aware, wear gloves when gutting, and don't eat the brain 

 

I'm not pushing an agenda. I'm not with a regulatory agency and I don't own a deer farm; in fact, I've never seen a deer with CWD. But it's silly to claim that there's no risk and that we just need to deal with it. You know that there's a promising new treatment for pancreatic cancer that came out of biomedical research recently? Lots of people who wouldn't have had a hope ten years ago are going to benefit. You don't know what's curable until you try. But you can't cure it until you understand it, and until that time historical precedent demands caution.

Caution yes but knee jerk reactions...Like killing hundreds of thousands of perfectly healthy deer looking to see if 1 may have it is far from being smart or cautious. Until man is involved then i believe life goes on. After 60 years of this crap on this planet and no harm done when does it get put to rest as something that just happens..Like Cancer?

[wdswtr]

FSW Im not sure how close they are to the research facility Id have to ask. They said snipers been shooting deer there all summer. I have to agree with one of them. He says most everyone in the area are after trophy bucks and its a no no to shoot does. I know he has taken as many does as he can and gets a lot of grief for it. Anyhow he says CWD was "found" for a purpose. That purpose was to not piss off hunters by saying the deer herd is way to large and we are gonna cull cause hunters are not doing there job. So CWD was the answer to make the sniper killings "acceptable" to most local hunters in that area. By the response to my other pal who is scared chitless about even touching a deer it seems to be working out for the DNR.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

FSW Im not sure how close they are to the research facility Id have to ask. They said snipers been shooting deer there all summer. I have to agree with one of them. He says most everyone in the area are after trophy bucks and its a no no to shoot does. I know he has taken as many does as he can and gets a lot of grief for it. Anyhow he says CWD was "found" for a purpose. That purpose was to not piss off hunters by saying the deer herd is way to large and we are gonna cull cause hunters are not doing there job. So CWD was the answer to make the sniper killings "acceptable" to most local hunters in that area. By the response to my other pal who is scared chitless about even touching a deer it seems to be working out for the DNR.

Yeah and that just what the politics want you to think. about deer, about deer farms, you name it.  They have been using a disease for years that has done squat to any herds of deer anywhere.

 

They had better be careful to what they ask for because picture this.... They now say the CWD prion is being found it corn and alfalfa, Well what do you think is going to happen to the whitetail deer when word comes down that big Ag is being shutdown because of this prion?  The wild deer is what is going to cause these farms to lose billions and billions and then not just farms in our country..What happens to overseas movement of Ag out of our country?

The farmer pays to raise the deer that hunters hunt, Not the hunter!  If this comes down to the vermin wild whitetail that is moving this prion into farmers crop or the farmers being shut down themselves who do you think the loser is going to be? There will be all out war on vermin whitetail deer because of politics.

 

Do you think you will ever see the law come down where no crops can be harvested and sold out of any CWD positive states? Even though they know 100% for a fact that farmers are moving possible tainted crops all across the world?  But they will stop us hunters from using deer urine even though there has never been a case of the CWD prion found in natural whitetail deer!  The day that happens is the day you will see these researchers say we were all wrong about CWD and to carry on with no concerns.  CWD will be gone faster than Ebola.

[knehrke]

I think you may have some mistaken assumptions about research. Or perhaps you were using hyperbole to illustrate a point? Regardless, I'd like to emphasize that publicly funded researchers are not obligated to follow a company line. You do the work, put it out there, argue a bunch and reach consensus. Any type of cover up will eventually come unmasked, as will shoddy work. It takes some time, but the truth wins out in the end.

 

That having been said, there's no rule that politicians have to make laws based on science, either. Which annoys the crap out of me...why fund research, then ignore the results and do whatever you please? It may very well be that there's no scientifically valid reason to kill thousands of deer or start shouting, "the sky is falling". Believe me, even though my lab is well-funded, the politicians who hold the purse strings are no particular friend of mine. Researchers are in pursuit of the truth, not an agenda. Whatever we learn about prion diseases may become ammunition in some politician's arsenal, but don't blame the messenger. 

 

For example, I'd love to see the "science" behind DEC's decision to limit bow hunters to does the first 15 days of season. I think that it's going to backfire dramatically and the take will actually be reduced, though I suspect that doesn't matter since it's just phase II on the way to phase III.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2015 by knehrke

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I think you may have some mistaken assumptions about research. Or perhaps you were using hyperbole to illustrate a point? Regardless, I'd like to emphasize that publicly funded researchers are not obligated to follow a company line. You do the work, put it out there, argue a bunch and reach consensus. Any type of cover up will eventually come unmasked, as will shoddy work. It takes some time, but the truth wins out in the end.

 

That having been said, there's no rule that politicians have to make laws based on science, either. Which annoys the crap out of me...why fund research, then ignore the results and do whatever you please? It may very well be that there's no scientifically valid reason to kill thousands of deer or start shouting, "the sky is falling". Believe me, even though my lab is well-funded, the politicians who hold the purse strings are no particular friend of mine. Researchers are in pursuit of the truth, not an agenda. Whatever we learn about prion diseases may become ammunition in some politician's arsenal, but don't blame the messenger. 

 

For example, I'd love to see the "science" behind DEC's decision to limit bow hunters to does the first 15 days of season. I think that it's going to backfire dramatically and the take will actually be reduced, though I suspect that doesn't matter since it's just phase II on the way to phase III.

CWD has proven itself to be just the opposite of what they said it would be. When they ban whitetail urine because research has injected the prion into urine and then the urine into a mouse to make it positive when in fact every brain and node positive deer that has had their urine tested has never been found to have the prion in the urine there is a problem.

Just because researchers can do it does not mean it can happen in the wild.

 

Politics are twisting research to fit their agenda!

[DirtTime]

Maybe CWD will be the onset of the "Zombie Apocalypse". It could happen. Just saying.

[knehrke]

Your point is well-taken. Labs aren't a natural environment and transmission modes are funny things. I still recommend not eating the brains