Squirrel ammo

[wildcat junkie]

What would happen if a fox squirrel was hit by a 20gr game point from a 17HMR at over 2000 fps?

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The same thing as a 33 gr V-Max at 2450 fps out of my 5mm Remington Magnum  CF.  At $15 for 100 rounds it's a lot cheaper than the HMR to shoot & a lot more accurate. 2 x the muzzle energy & the same energy at 185 yards as the 17 HMR has at the muzzle.

 

 

100 yards

 

 

200 yards

 

 

 

If I want to hunt squirrels with the 5mm RM, I use 40gr FMJ at 2100 fps & hold ON the neck! Or a 22LR 40 gr standard velocity will work just as well..

 

Edited December 30, 2015 by wildcat junkie

[shawnhu]

RWS M48 ain't cheap, but it will go through 1" pine with super heavy pellets. Plain old Crosman Premiere RN HP pellets are good for about 35 yds on pigeons.

Unfortunately, it's a break barrel, and would require the artillery hold to maximize its accuracy. In break barrel Airguns, there's not many benefits that I can see in going larger in caliber since the power plant is identical to that of a smaller caliber.

I would consider a pigeon at 35yds an easier shot than a neck shock on a grey at the same distance.

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[ants]

my 10/22 with 3x scope and whatever ammo I dug up out of my pocket at the time also has killed many a squirrel. Some solid points , some hollow points . Never knew what round was coming out of that mag next. Always knew when a Stinger went off with that extra crack to it. Always took head shots and lost very few and having troubles thinking of any I did lose.

yeah …I liked to use what ever brand hollow points, but I guess I would have used what ever ammo I had on hand. Its still a short shot with a scoped rifle……For me anyway….

Edited December 30, 2015 by ants

[wildcat junkie]

Unfortunately, it's a break barrel, and would require the artillery hold to maximize its accuracy. In break barrel Airguns, there's not many benefits that I can see in going larger in caliber since the power plant is identical to that of a smaller caliber.

I would consider a pigeon at 35yds an easier shot than a neck shock on a grey at the same distance.

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Unfortunately you are wrong. It is not a "break barrel". And you are wrong about the energy comparison.

 

 

.177 shoots flatter,  .22 has more energy. .25s even more so.

 

Besides I was comparing the RWS to 710 fps 22 LR.

Edited December 30, 2015 by wildcat junkie

[shawnhu]

Unfortunately you are wrong. It is not a "break barrel".

You're right. It's not a break barrel, but it is a spring piston, which all break barrels are powered by. The same applies, artillery hold.

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Edited December 30, 2015 by shawnhu

[wildcat junkie]

You're right. It's not a break barrel, but it is a spring piston, which all break barrels are powered by. The same applies, artillery hold.

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As would be 710 fps 40 gr 22 LR ammo.

 

Are you trying to make a point or is your reading comprehension really that bad?

[shawnhu]

As would be 710 fps 40 gr 22 LR ammo.

Are you trying to make a point or is your reading comprehension really that bad?

I don't think we need to resort to personal attacks, but I'll gladly comply if that's your thing.

Powder burners do not require the artillery hold to maximize accuracy, spring piston powered Airguns do.

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[wildcat junkie]

yeah …I liked to use what ever brand hollow points, but I guess I would have used what ever ammo I had on hand. Its still a short shot with a scoped rifle……For me anyway….

 

In Southern Indiana where Grays are abundant in the hickories in late August/early September I started using a 36 cal Flintlock because it became not much if a challenge to kill a limit of 5 squirrels with a scope sighted .22 LR.

 

If I could manage to get 2 Squirrels on a hunt with that flinter, I felt like I really accomlished something.

 

Edited December 30, 2015 by wildcat junkie

[wildcat junkie]

I don't think we need to resort to personal attacks, but I'll gladly comply if that's your thing.

Powder burners do not require the artillery hold to maximize accuracy, spring piston powered Airguns do.

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Where do you get the idea that I advocated the use of air rifles for squirrels? I was merely comparing super low velocity 22 ammo (710 fps) to air rifles.

 

You are posting on assumptions. I hardly think my pointing that out is a "personal attack".

 

[shawnhu]

Where do you get the idea that I advocated the use of air rifles for squirrels? I was merely comparing super low velocity 22 ammo (710 fps) to air rifles.

You are posting on assumptions. I hardly think my pointing that out is a "personal attack".

In post #43 you compare ammo fired from a 22LR to that of an RWS Diana 48. This was in direct response to a post Chris wrote regarding taking squirrels with subsonic 22LR ammo behind the shoulder. If you are not trying to make some kind of link between the two, maybe you shouldn't have compared them. I simply stated that a .22 pellet rifle powered by a spring piston is inferior IMO to a 22LR for the reasons already stated and would much prefer the equivalent in .177 due to sectional density and identical power plant.

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[airedale]

I picked up one of the Ruger 77s in 17 HMR when it first came out and absolutely love it. It has taken Fox,  Coyote and yes Squirrels. At closer ranges it can cause some pretty severe damage on body shot Squirrels especially with the VMAX, the heavier hollow point is quite a bit tougher and does not explode so violently. 

 

When I take Squirrels I shoot for the head so not to damage to much meat. My Ruger has gilt edged accuracy and with a good rest head shots can be made consistently. Also at this time of the year when there is a little snow on the ground and the trees naked of leaves you can times spot Squirrels a quite a long distance even in denser woods and that is where the 17 HMR can really shine. With that flat trajectory and the accuracy I have taken squirrels at some pretty long distances.  When they are out there a good long poke a body shot does not cause anywhere near the damage as one taken at close range does. So while it does cause a bit more damage I will make that trade for a lot more distance and accuracy and Squirrels in my game bag.

 

And last but not least I almost always have a varmint call in my hunting coat pocket and there have been several times when the Squirrel hunting was slow that have brought in both Fox and Coyote in with the call especially late in the season. I prefer to have that Ruger 17 HMR than a 22 LR when things work out.

 

Al

 

The Ruger 17 HMR, one of my dogs and a Fox we took while out hunting Squirrels back a dozen yrs or so.

Edited December 31, 2015 by airedale

[wolc123]

WJ:"22 LR standard velocity solids are all you need if you know how to shoot. If you didn't recover the squirrel, how do you know where you hit it?"

In this case, I had a good rest, clear broadside shot and had just verified the zero on the gun out on the range. I am quite certain the bullet struck near center lung. On any game animal with a gun or bow, I aim center lung, if available, because it provides the greatest margin for error and does not take out much meat. I do make some exceptions, such as a shoulder shot on a lead doe from a group when I have multiple tags. That has produced "doubles" for me on several occasions. I hate loosing the couple of chops that shot placement costs, but getting a whole extra deer makes it well worth the price.

You make a good point on aiming forward of the shoulder on squirrels and I will give it a try at the next opportunity. I will then be able to see for myself how much meat it cost me. I consider head-shots on squirrels to be "unethical". Just because they are small does not mean they should not be respected. That said, I did disrespect one a few years ago with my side-lock 50 cal hawken on the last day of ML season for deer. The unlucky squirrel showed up right at dusk when it was time to unload the rifle. I had a bit of a "hangfire", but held steady until he literally lost his head completely.

Edited December 31, 2015 by wolc123

[wildcat junkie]

You make a good point on aiming forward of the shoulder on squirrels and I will give it a try at the next opportunity. I will then be able to see for myself how much meat it cost me. I consider head-shots on squirrels to be "unethical". Just because they are small does not mean they should not be respected. That said, I did disrespect one a few years ago with my side-lock 50 cal hawken on the last day of ML season for deer. The unlucky squirrel showed up right at dusk when it was time to unload the rifle. I had a bit of a "hangfire", but held steady until he literally lost his head completely.

I aim for the pocket behind the shoulder on a deer, about 1/3 the way up in line with where the front leg joins the body because it is the center of the vital area. In my mind, the vital area is about 8" in diameter for all intents & purposes. A few inches forward & I break the shoulder. A few inches too far back & I get both lungs & maybe some liver. A few inches high & I break the spine, a few inches low is a heart shot. I aim for the high percentage shot with the best margin for error. My "bread & butter" shot from my tri-pod stand is 240 yards down a long shooting lane through a logged over area.

 

A squirrel has a much smaller vital area in overall size, but the small size of the animal also expands the area as far as the percentage of the overall length of the animal. A solid hit anywhere from the brain to the shoulder covers less than 3" horizontally, (lenghtwise) about 1" vertically, yet a hit anywhere in that area with a solid 40gr 22 LR will anchor that squirrel on the spot. Shooting just ahead of the shoulder (just behind/below the ear) is in the horizontal center of that area.

 

22 target ammo is subsonic, & for a very good reason. 22 standard velocity or subsonic ammo is the most accurate due to shock waves that affect bullet stability at & near the speed of sound. (1145 fps @ sea level) If you aren't going to exceed the speed of sound the whole way to the target, it is best to start out below that velocity in the 1st place.

Edited December 31, 2015 by wildcat junkie

[wildcat junkie]

 That said, I did disrespect one a few years ago with my side-lock 50 cal hawken on the last day of ML season for deer. The unlucky squirrel showed up right at dusk when it was time to unload the rifle. I had a bit of a "hangfire", but held steady until he literally lost his head completely.

 

I'll be willing to bet you were using a "substitute" powder & not real Black Powder.

 

[wolc123]

WJ: I'll be willing to bet you were using a "substitute" powder & not real Black Powder.

Yep, Pyrodex. I am using 777 pellets now in my in-line, and when that runs out, I will switch to that easy-cleanup 209 stuff.

For the squirrels with the .22, I also prefer the subsonic target stuff. Increased accuracy and less noise is a tough combination to beat. I shot on the rifle team in high school and the coach would always let me sweep up after practice and matches. I am hoping I can talk my daughters joining the team and doing that in a few years to "refresh" ammo supply. Back in the day, the girls were always the best shots on the team and it seems they still are by the write-ups in the paper.

That last squirrel was one of very few that I did not recover after a hit and almost all were shot behind the shoulder. For many years, I used a Remington 510P single shot with a peep sight, then a 3x Bushnell banner scope. About 10 years ago, the accuracy went on it for some reason and now I use a Ruger 10/22 carbine. That is a real tack-driver inside of 50 yards. It shoots better than the old Remington bolt-action ever did.

Edited December 31, 2015 by wolc123

[wildcat junkie]

WJ: I'll be willing to bet you were using a "substitute" powder & not real Black Powder.

Yep, Pyrodex. I am using 777 pellets now in my in-line, and when that runs out, I will switch to that easy-cleanup 209 stuff.

 

Inline muzzle loaders were developed to make black powder substitutes (almost) as reliable as when real black powder is used in traditional muzzle loaders.

 

Black powder substitutes were developed so large retailers could exploit the muzzle loader market. Black powder is classified as an explosive. Substitutes are classified as flammables.

 

Sadly, this has made it even more difficult to obtain real black powder. There's nothing really hard about cleaning black powder residue from a weapon if you know the techniques.

 

I used to burn a pound or more of black powder in a week during spring & summer & use 250# of lead casting bullets in a year as well as all the shot I used shooting 100rds of skeet every Sunday.

 

I used a 36 cal flintlock for squirrels, 54 cal flintlock & percussion plains rifles for deer & I had two 12 ga dbl barrel percussion muzzle loading shotguns that I used for turkey, tarp, small game & skeet. I only used the percussion rifle when it was raining HARD.

 

Except for a few "dryball" loads, I only ever had 1 failure to ignite reliably during a hunt when I got caught in a downpour with my 54 flintlock. Luckily I didn't see a deer that day anyway.

 

BTW; Pyrodex is FAR more corrosive than real black powder!

 

Edited December 31, 2015 by wildcat junkie

[wolc123]

I did miss out on a wide-bodied, single-antlered buck with the side-lock/pyrodex. The load finally lit with the third cap when he was long gone after having walked right below my stand. He did give me a funny look from down below when the first cap went off. I switched to the in-line (TC Omega) the following year and never had any firing issues with that. It fired every time and hit about a dozen deer right where I aimed, killing them all. It was so much more accurate than the rifled slug-gun I had then (Rem 870 with Hastings cantilever scope barrel), that I even used it during regular season. I would probably still be using it if I hadn't located a rifled 12 gauge (Marlin 512) that shoots just as accurate, hits with twice the energy at 160 yards, and gives me 2 extra shots.