Public Input on Hunting Regulations

[Jaeger]

The DEC has just opened a site for public input on possible regulation changes for 2016.

 

These include allowing bear hunting during the youth deer hunt;

 

reducing antlerless harvest in 6F and 6J; and

 

rescinding the antlerless only requirement during portions of the bow and/or muzzleloader seasons in some southern zone areas.

 

Thought you guys/gals cought up in the antlerless only deal would want to get an early start on getting it rescinded for the 2016-2017 season.  The page can be viewed at:

 

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/104785.html

 

 

Best of luck!!

 

Jaeger

[shawnhu]

Getting it rescinded for 2017 would likely mean phase 3, keep that in mind.

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[nyslowhand]

FYI - This input period ends Feb 5th, so speak now or.... 

[chas0218]

I love how they don't tell you what phase 3 is "ironing out the details." BULL$}{!* they know what they are going to do and will do it they just don't want you to know the alternative. They can give hunters of the state a general idea of what it entails.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I love how they don't tell you what phase 3 is "ironing out the details." BULL$}{!* they know what they are going to do and will do it they just don't want you to know the alternative. They can give hunters of the state a general idea of what it entails.

They know and we know. All you have to o is read between the lines. You can write in or speak up and it will change nothing. They are going to continue on their path regardless of what hunters wishes are.

[chas0218]

I did write in but like you said I doubt it will be read.

[Two Track]

They should open Sterling Forest to the early bear season, that is where they are in Orange county.

 

Have not seen any bears or bear sign in Stewart or Pochuck Mountain our other public hunting parcels.

There is no bear hunting at West Point, have to be active military or a vet.

 

They want the bear pop. reduced,  allow us to hunt where they are.

But then again, that would be logical.

[Rebel Darling]

I figured I'd share my comments as submitted.  Alternative ideas and thoughtfully articulated arguments against the ideas I presented below will be appreciated and considered.

 

________________________

 

 

- Idea # 1 - I support opening the Youth Firearms Deer Hunt on Columbus Day Weekend to junior hunters.

- Idea # 2 - I have no comment on restricting the early muzzleloader to antlered only in 6F and 6J.

- Idea # 3 - It is my opinion that additional early muzzleloader seasons will ruin what hunters appreciate about bow seasons, as well as ruin the characteristics of the field that make them effective hunters (quiet habitat and undisturbed game).  In addition, early muzzleloader seasons may result in a decrease in the overall take of deer in WMUs in which increased take is desired.  More hunters in the woods with louder implements earlier in the year means fewer deer moving freely in daylight hours earlier in the year, and then potentially less deer (antlered or antlerless) taken during Regular Season.  

Rifles are the most effective firearm with the greatest accuracy and greatest energy over longer distances.  If the objective is to harvest more antlerless deer, this is the firearm to put to work.  With that in mind, I think the best option is to encourage Regular Season hunters to harvest does with a special antlerless season/weekend, in addition to antlered deer and during the Regular Season.  That would result in two tags for Regular Season hunters; one antlered tag, and one antlerless tag good for the “antlerless only weekend/season."

Another idea would be to restrict part of Regular Season to antlerless only.  

Phase 3, as currently proposed will be seen as a punitive measure against bowhunters, and may work instead to erode trust between bowhunters and the DEC.  

For bow-only zones, such as 4J, the DEC could facilitate communication between private landowners and hunters and encourage landowners to open their property to hunters.  If there is room in an already tight budget, perhaps DEC could conduct a low-cost media campaign on the detrimental effects of deer overpopulation - starved deer, increased vehicle collisions, forest and crop health, etc.  In densely populated (human), suburban areas, access to hunting ground is a considerable obstacle to hunting success.  Perhaps a database of available private parcels that can connect landowners to hunters would work.  The database would be accessible through an online interface that would enable the property owner to include as much or as little information as is required, including open dates, how many hunters allowed, rules to consider and other preferences.  Hunters would then be able to “browse” available parcels and contact homeowners through the interface.  Parcels already committed could be removed from the database in order to help avoid trespassers trolling for property.

Please let me know if I can be of further assistance, and thank you for your time.

[chas0218]

I figured I'd share my comments as submitted.  Alternative ideas and thoughtfully articulated arguments against the ideas I presented below will be appreciated and considered.

 

________________________

 

 

- Idea # 1 - I support opening the Youth Firearms Deer Hunt on Columbus Day Weekend to junior hunters.

- Idea # 2 - I have no comment on restricting the early muzzleloader to antlered only in 6F and 6J.

- Idea # 3 - It is my opinion that additional early muzzleloader seasons will ruin what hunters appreciate about bow seasons, as well as ruin the characteristics of the field that make them effective hunters (quiet habitat and undisturbed game).  In addition, early muzzleloader seasons may result in a decrease in the overall take of deer in WMUs in which increased take is desired.  More hunters in the woods with louder implements earlier in the year means fewer deer moving freely in daylight hours earlier in the year, and then potentially less deer (antlered or antlerless) taken during Regular Season.  

Rifles are the most effective firearm with the greatest accuracy and greatest energy over longer distances.  If the objective is to harvest more antlerless deer, this is the firearm to put to work.  With that in mind, I think the best option is to encourage Regular Season hunters to harvest does with a special antlerless season/weekend, in addition to antlered deer and during the Regular Season.  That would result in two tags for Regular Season hunters; one antlered tag, and one antlerless tag good for the “antlerless only weekend/season."

Another idea would be to restrict part of Regular Season to antlerless only.  

Phase 3, as currently proposed will be seen as a punitive measure against bowhunters, and may work instead to erode trust between bowhunters and the DEC.  

For bow-only zones, such as 4J, the DEC could facilitate communication between private landowners and hunters and encourage landowners to open their property to hunters.  If there is room in an already tight budget, perhaps DEC could conduct a low-cost media campaign on the detrimental effects of deer overpopulation - starved deer, increased vehicle collisions, forest and crop health, etc.  In densely populated (human), suburban areas, access to hunting ground is a considerable obstacle to hunting success.  Perhaps a database of available private parcels that can connect landowners to hunters would work.  The database would be accessible through an online interface that would enable the property owner to include as much or as little information as is required, including open dates, how many hunters allowed, rules to consider and other preferences.  Hunters would then be able to “browse” available parcels and contact homeowners through the interface.  Parcels already committed could be removed from the database in order to help avoid trespassers trolling for property.

Please let me know if I can be of further assistance, and thank you for your time.

You and I pretty much wrote the same e-mail especially the phase 3 ideas. Easiest way they could get that antlerless permit would be to change the muzzleloader antlerless to be used in regular season or muzzleloader. I said they should utilize the regular season instead of bow. It would be most logical if they wanted more antlerless deer harvest also I said they could add an antler restriction only for regular season so that guy that shoots a 3" spike would need to re-assess their situation and possibly take that doe he is chasing around.

 

I know many guys that don't use their either sex tag during bow in hopes to fill it with the old smoke pole on that one big guy they were chasing during bow.

[Rebel Darling]

You and I pretty much wrote the same e-mail especially the phase 3 ideas. Easiest way they could get that antlerless permit would be to change the muzzleloader antlerless to be used in regular season or muzzleloader. I said they should utilize the regular season instead of bow. It would be most logical if they wanted more antlerless deer harvest also I said they could add an antler restriction only for regular season so that guy that shoots a 3" spike would need to re-assess their situation and possibly take that doe he is chasing around.

 

I know many guys that don't use their either sex tag during bow in hopes to fill it with the old smoke pole on that one big guy they were chasing during bow.

 

An antlerless late/regular season tag should be pretty easy to administer.  I think that's a good idea to consider.

[Five Seasons]

My email:

 

My comments are regarding proposed change #3. I have hunted NY my whole life. Recently, I moved away to Mississippi for work. I still return once or twice a season to hunt with my family in 8F and 7J. I was deeply bothered by the changes last year which wouldn't allow me to harvest a buck had I been presented with the opportunity. I know many friends and family who simply stayed out of the woods to prevent the temptation and to keep their stands fresh. More concerning was late muzzleloader. Many hunters including myself almost always harvest a late season mature doe during this season, however most of us are out in the cold, snowy conditions for a hope that they get one last shot at a late rut buck if we still have a tag. And if that opportunity doesn't provide itself, the doe for the freezer is always great.

 

I can tell you from personal experience hunting public land in Mississippi where there is a week of doe only muzzleloader the last week of bow season (before rifle starts) that it's very disruptive to the archers (who can still harvest a buck). The guns go off and the deer begin to hide. The poaching stories are also rampant. Many unethical hunters view it as an opportunity to get a jump on unspooked deer before rifle season. I fear that allowing muzzleloaders into archery season will upset many hunters. And archers are generally your most passionate, loyal hunters. We're almost all gun hunters as well. I am and have always been strongly against the crossbow. However, given a choice I'd gladly vote for full inclusion before we allow firearms.

 

In summary, it's confusing why the DEC seems to attack such a small group. If you truly want to reduce the doe population, why not include doe only during gun? This is the single largest group of hunters. Personally, I don't believe that's the answer. Many hunters have seen fewer deer in the farm land and open woods where we hunt. The issue is urban sprawl and hunter access. I propose instead the state work with cities, parks and towns to open up permitted archery hunts to reduce populations in these areas where population growth is causing car accidents and resident complaints of destroyed gardens and shrubs. My current hometown has such a program and its worked wonders. Deer Management

[shawnhu]

I don't hunt certain areas because of the lack of DMP, same with AR areas. I know many that has similar mentalities as I when it comes to hunting whitetail. If the DEC is at all concerned with hunter numbers, they would not limit hunters, but instead allow them to decide for themselves.

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[Rebel Darling]

My email:

 

My comments are regarding proposed change #3. I have hunted NY my whole life. Recently, I moved away to Mississippi for work. I still return once or twice a season to hunt with my family in 8F and 7J. I was deeply bothered by the changes last year which wouldn't allow me to harvest a buck had I been presented with the opportunity. I know many friends and family who simply stayed out of the woods to prevent the temptation and to keep their stands fresh. More concerning was late muzzleloader. Many hunters including myself almost always harvest a late season mature doe during this season, however most of us are out in the cold, snowy conditions for a hope that they get one last shot at a late rut buck if we still have a tag. And if that opportunity doesn't provide itself, the doe for the freezer is always great.

 

I can tell you from personal experience hunting public land in Mississippi where there is a week of doe only muzzleloader the last week of bow season (before rifle starts) that it's very disruptive to the archers (who can still harvest a buck). The guns go off and the deer begin to hide. The poaching stories are also rampant. Many unethical hunters view it as an opportunity to get a jump on unspooked deer before rifle season. I fear that allowing muzzleloaders into archery season will upset many hunters. And archers are generally your most passionate, loyal hunters. We're almost all gun hunters as well. I am and have always been strongly against the crossbow. However, given a choice I'd gladly vote for full inclusion before we allow firearms.

 

In summary, it's confusing why the DEC seems to attack such a small group. If you truly want to reduce the doe population, why not include doe only during gun? This is the single largest group of hunters. Personally, I don't believe that's the answer. Many hunters have seen fewer deer in the farm land and open woods where we hunt. The issue is urban sprawl and hunter access. I propose instead the state work with cities, parks and towns to open up permitted archery hunts to reduce populations in these areas where population growth is causing car accidents and resident complaints of destroyed gardens and shrubs. My current hometown has such a program and its worked wonders. Deer Management

 

I'll have to take a look at the links on the right hand side of the page, but it seems - judging by the titles of the links alone - that the City of Oxford is taking a proactive, citizen driven approach to deer management within city limits.  At face value, the community should be applauded for taking advantage of hunters as a resource.  Here in NY, however, I imagine that state government would find fault with a community attempting to codify its own rules with regard to deer management.  It would be helpful for the state and localities to partner to advance a beneficial culling of deer in needed areas. 

 

I would like to be able to participate in a program that links landowners to hunters in urban/suburban areas with the mission of educating landowners of how hunters can benefit herd management efforts, and educating hunters on the community's specific requests.

 

Working together, cooperatively...  What a concept...  What a dream here in the Northeast.

Edited January 29, 2016 by RebelDarling

[Five Seasons]

I'll have to take a look at the links on the right hand side of the page, but it seems - judging by the titles of the links alone - that the City of Oxford is taking a proactive, citizen driven approach to deer management within city limits.  At face value, the community should be applauded for taking advantage of hunters as a resource.  Here in NY, however, I imagine that state government would find fault with a community attempting to codify its own rules with regard to deer management.  It would be helpful for the state and localities to partner to advance a beneficial culling of deer in needed areas. 

 

I would like to be able to participate in a program that links landowners to hunters in urban/suburban areas with the mission of educating landowners of how hunters can benefit herd management efforts, and educating hunters on the community's specific requests.

 

Working together, cooperatively...  What a concept...  What a dream here in the Northeast.

 

It's actually pretty basic. All hunters follow state hunting regulations. The city however, is now allowing select hunting within it's boundaries which is typically off limits (think parts of monroe, LI, NT etc.). The only land that can be hunted is public or land where homeowners ask for hunters. You must pass a proficiency test with your bow and also a written exam. You establish contact with the landowner to discuss their wishes on parking, access etc. You check in every deer and must harvest 3 doe before you even think about a buck. and even then statewide ARs remain in affect. There are some rules about bagging the deer but in the south I don't think many worry about it. It's a great way to fill the freezer and potentially bag a trophy suburban deer. Personally I wouldn't consider a somewhat tame 10 pointer a trophy, but that's another subject.

 

[Rebel Darling]

It's actually pretty basic. All hunters follow state hunting regulations. The city however, is now allowing select hunting within it's boundaries which is typically off limits (think parts of monroe, LI, NT etc.). The only land that can be hunted is public or land where homeowners ask for hunters. You must pass a proficiency test with your bow and also a written exam. You establish contact with the landowner to discuss their wishes on parking, access etc. You check in every deer and must harvest 3 doe before you even think about a buck. and even then statewide ARs remain in affect. There are some rules about bagging the deer but in the south I don't think many worry about it. It's a great way to fill the freezer and potentially bag a trophy suburban deer. Personally I wouldn't consider a somewhat tame 10 pointer a trophy, but that's another subject.

 

 

This is fascinating.

[Doc]

Getting it rescinded for 2017 would likely mean phase 3, keep that in mind.

That is what makes it necessary that the opposition to phase three be included in the comments sent to the DEC. It may or may not do any good, but if you are opposed to any type of firearm being added into the bow season, here is another bite at the apple, and another chance to go on record as being against that growing mentality in the DEC ranks. Chances are pretty good that bowhunters did not do a very good job at registering their opposition to this phase of the deer management plan when that comment period was open before. Let's not make that same mistake again.

[Five Seasons]

This is fascinating.

 

I honestly believe it's the animal rights groups that are stopping more programs like this. It's a win, win for everyone. One guy manages the program and I don't think he breaks his back. So there's little to no cost for the town, accidents and angry home owners decrease and a bunch of hunters who may not have great land to hunt get to fill their freezer. I've spoken to the manager a few times and he's mentioned some issues with a few guys not turning in jaw bones and a few others shooting only bucks but they got booted.

[skiop]

How about getting rid of the idiotic back tag rule