Do you reload?

[chas0218]

The brass looks good. The primer strike looks good too no flattened primer or crater. Congrats on your first reloads now you'll be hooked.

[Elmo]

100 yards with 168 grain Sierra Match Kings in 308 and Varget powder.

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[wildcat junkie]

The cases look fine to me. I don't see any bulging or deformation in them and the primer strike looks good to me. The other 17 from the 46 grain batch I shot just because it was fun but that's the last time I'll be making 20 round batches to test. Thanks for the 3 round method. They were all 3 shot groups.

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Is that a shiny spot right next to the "N" in WIN?

Edited March 7, 2016 by wildcat junkie

[Borngeechee]

Is that a shiny spot right next to the "N" in WIN?

That's where the extractor grabs the round. It's that Mauser type in the gunsite scout. It grabs and flings rounds for dear life. It's like that on my factory rounds too.

Geechee born and Geechee bred

[wildcat junkie]

That's where the extractor grabs the round. It's that Mauser type in the gunsite scout. It grabs and flings rounds for dear life. It's like that on my factory rounds too.

Geechee born and Geechee bred

That would be the "ejector" not the extractor & if it was from the ejector slamming into the case it would be a dent, not a shiny wiped spot.

 

Did your lowest charge loads exhibit the same thing?

 

I have old 8mm-06 Ackley case that were loaded to way above '06 pressure & they don't show that.

 

Is this a true Mauser of a Mauser copy like the Rugar M77 or CRF Mod 70 Win?

[Borngeechee]

That would be the "ejector" not the extractor & if it was from the ejector slamming into the case it would be a dent, not a shiny wiped spot.

Did your lowest charge loads exhibit the same thing?

I have old 8mm-06 Ackley case that were loaded to way above '06 pressure & they don't show that.

Is this a true Mauser of a Mauser copy like the Rugar M77 or CRF Mod 70 Win?

It's the m77 type. Yea every thing I run through gets that on it after I eject the spent round.

Geechee born and Geechee bred

[wildcat junkie]

It's the m77 type. Yea every thing I run through gets that on it after I eject the spent round.

Geechee born and Geechee bred

That's normally a sign of excessive chamber pressure but it could well be a burr or other imperfection on the ejector slot.

[shawnhu]

I redid my pressure/ladder test, and there wasn't any noticeable pressure until my last shot at 44.4 gr of Varget over a 70gr pill.

Last time I tried to shoot this string, I immediately got pressure at 42.8 gr.

The difference was in the brass.

Then I went and shot these two groups.

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[wildcat junkie]

I redid my pressure/ladder test, and there wasn't any noticeable pressure until my last shot at 44.4 gr of Varget over a 70gr pill.

Last time I tried to shoot this string, I immediately got pressure at 42.8 gr.

The difference was in the brass.

Then I went and shot these two groups.

If you still have some of the other brass, trim it and your current brass to the same length & weigh them with & without water to see what the case capacity is in H2O for each.

 Do this BEFORE re-sizing.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

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Edited March 8, 2016 by wildcat junkie

[shawnhu]

The velocity tells me that the pressures should be similar, but the difference is that one brass showed signs but the other didn't. That tells me the brass composition in one is weaker/softer than the other.

If you want to run the numbers in QL, I'll load up some spent primers and weigh them. Normally, I don't.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

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[wildcat junkie]

The velocity tells me that the pressures should be similar, but the difference is that one brass showed signs but the other didn't. That tells me the brass composition in one is weaker/softer than the other.

If you want to run the numbers in QL, I'll load up some spent primers and weigh them. Normally, I don't.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

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It works better W/unsized brass.

[shawnhu]

It works better W/unsized brass.

I'll see if I didn't resize the Herter's and get you the numbers.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

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[shawnhu]

Was doing some reading as I couldn't sleep.

http://www.the-long-family.com/OBT_paper.htm

OBT, QuickLoad, and OCW, seating depth. Interesting stuff.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

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Edited March 10, 2016 by shawnhu

[wildcat junkie]

I use chronograph data & settle on the charge that yields the lowest Standard deviation. My Pact Chrono reads out high, low, extreme spread & standard deviation.

 

So far the loads W/lowest standard deviation have performed so well, usually < 1/2" @ 100yds, I never bothered to try anything else. Not saying that this is the best way, it has just worked out that way. The only exception has been the .323 180gr Ballistic Tips in the 8X57. I did not have enough of them on hand to do much load development.

 

I may try some more charge adjustment if I can't get the .323 180gr Ballistic Tips to shoot .5 MOA. That bullet isn't efficient in the short COAL of my 8X57 but the 8mm-06 Ackley will allow a COAL of 3.385" so it will allow plenty of room in the case for powder.

 

I also load COAL so that the ogive is .010" or less off the lands.

[wildcat junkie]

It works better W/unsized brass.

 

 

I'll see if I didn't resize the Herter's and get you the numbers.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

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Unsized brass allows the chamber dimensions to be factored in.

 

Quickload was uncannily accurate predicting Mv W/IMR 4064 in my 1st rendition of the 8mm-06 Ackley, predicting Mv to less than a 50fps variation..

 

In addition to the H2O capacity of the fired case, I'll also need the length of the case, COAL of the loaded cartridge, the bullet used. The barrel length will also be needed if you want Mv predictions.

Edited March 10, 2016 by wildcat junkie

[shawnhu]

Unsized brass allows the chamber dimensions to be factored in.

Quickload was uncannily accurate predicting Mv W/IMR 4064 in my 1st rendition of the 8mm-06 Ackley, predicting Mv to less than a 50fps variation..

In addition to the H2O capacity of the fired case, I'll also need the length of the case, COAL of the loaded cartridge, the bullet used. The barrel length will also be needed if you want Mv predictions.

How about barrel time? Hopefully will have time to dig out the reloading station tonight.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

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[wildcat junkie]

How about barrel time? Hopefully will have time to dig out the reloading station tonight.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

Mv, % of propellant burned, psi max, psi muzzle & barrel time.

 

Cartridge          : 8 mm-06 ACK IMP

Bullet             : .323, 180, Nosler BalTip 32180

Useable Case Capaci: 66.875 grain H2O = 4.342 cm³

Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.385 inch = 85.98 mm

Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm

 

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Maximum Pressure: 62629 psi, or 431 MPa

or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 107 %

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.

C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested

loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand

that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet

and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.

USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

 

139 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.

Powder type          Filling/Ratio   Charge      Charge     Vel   . Prop.Burnt   P max      P muzz       B_Time

                                      %           Grains     Gramm      fps              %           psi         psi                 ms

---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------

Norma MRP              107.9          69.4            4.50       3095          99.7       62629      10814        1.173    Near Max

IMR 7828 SSC          107.7          68.2            4.42       3051          97.8       62629      10586        1.168    Near Max

Alliant Reloder-17       96.9          62.6            4.06       3037        100.0       62629       9526         1.178    Near Max

Vihtavuori N560        107.9          68.0            4.40       3027          96.9       59293      10856        1.201    Near Max

ADI AR 2213             107.9          67.2            4.36       3015          97.4       61299      10441        1.180    Near Max

Alliant Reloder-19     106.1          65.4            4.24       3007          98.8       62629      10084         1.187    Near Max

ADI AR 2209             105.4          64.6            4.19        3005         98.7        62629     10006        1.174    Near Max

Accurate MAGPRO   107.9          70.7            4.58        3004         95.2        58452     10840        1.214    Near Max

Somchem S365        103.7          63.6            4.12        3003       100.0        62629       9080        1.192    Near Max

Winchester 760           95.9           62.6           4.05        3001        99.6         62629       9806        1.190    Near Max

Hodgdon H414            95.9           62.6           4.05        3001        99.6         62629       9806         1.190   Near Max

Alliant Reloder-22      107.9           67.2           4.36        3001        98.4         58643     10485        1.212   Near Max

Vihtavuori N550           98.2           61.9           4.01        2985      100.0         62629       9497        1.199   Near Max

 

 

Cartridge          : 8 mm-06 ACK IMP

Bullet             : .323, 180, Nosler BalTip 32180

Useable Case Capaci: 66.875 grain H2O = 4.342 cm³

Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.385 inch = 85.98 mm

Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm

Powder             : Norma MRP

 

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,

incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.

CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

 

Step    Fill.  Charge   Vel.    Energy  Pmax  Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time

 %       %     Grains    fps       ft.lbs       psi      psi          %             ms

 

-20.0    86     55.52   2427    2354   30245    8708      90.4      1.619

-18.0    88     56.91   2493    2484   32449    8996      91.9      1.573

-16.0    91     58.30   2559    2618   34827    9272      93.2      1.529

-14.0    93     59.68   2626    2757   37397    9533      94.5      1.484

-12.0    95     61.07   2693    2899   40176    9778      95.6      1.435

-10.0    97     62.46   2760    3045   43188  10004      96.6      1.387

-08.0    99     63.85   2827    3195   46452  10212      97.5      1.341

-06.0  101     65.24   2894    3348   49995  10398      98.2      1.297

-04.0  104     66.62   2961    3505   53849  10561      98.9      1.254

-02.0  106     68.01   3028    3665   58047  10700      99.3      1.213  ! Near Maximum !

+00.0  108    69.40   3095    3827   62629  10814      99.7      1.173  ! Near Maximum !

+02.0  110    70.79   3161    3993   67638  10902      99.9      1.134  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

+04.0  112    72.18   3227    4162   73103  10961    100.0      1.097  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

+06.0  114    73.56   3292    4332   79158  11002    100.0      1.061  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

+08.0  117    74.95   3358    4506   85802  11037    100.0    1.027  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

+10.0  119    76.34   3422    4682   93135  11067    100.0       0.993  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

 

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge

Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:

+Ba    108    69.40   3239    4193   78000  10324    100.0    1.079  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:

-Ba    108    69.40   2882    3321   49627  10736     94.7    1.297

 

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2016 by wildcat junkie

[Borngeechee]

Damn that's in depth data

Geechee born and Geechee bred

[wildcat junkie]

Damn that's in depth data

Geechee born and Geechee bred

There are more graphs too.

 

All this has to be approached W/caution. I some rare instances the pressure estimation was way off.Norma 203 showed pressure signs W/10% less than estimated. Vv N550 & N560 will reach Mv/pressure @ about 2gr less than predicted, REL-17 is the opposite. It lags behind in Mv/pressure.

 

It's a tool that becomes more useul as you get used to how it predicts certain powders.

[shawnhu]

Utilizing OBT and QL, one could probably work up to max pressure, and go straight into the optimal load. Chronograph and groups would just be for verification purposes.

Would save quite a bit on components, barrel life, and range time.

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[wildcat junkie]

Utilizing OBT and QL, one could probably work up to max pressure, and go straight into the optimal load. Chronograph and groups would just be for verification purposes.

Would save quite a bit on components, barrel life, and range time.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

My 1st few strings of 3 shots over the chronograph are for verification of Mv being under max and to get a feel for how far off the predictions might be. As I work up to max and approach it, I start running 5 shot strings paying particular attention to standard deviation.

 

W/the powders I use I usually get the most consistent standard deviation as the loads become moderately compressed.

 

Over the past few years I have worked exclusively W/high energy powders such as Vv-N550, Vv-N560, RL-17. For larger case capacity/bore ratio cartridges, Norma MRP. For a while MRP was hard to get but now Midway stocks it & if you buy several #s of powder, The hazmat will be less than sales tax on local purchases. I paid a total of just under $30 for shipping & hazmat on 7# of powder. Given that the prices were less than local to start, it was cost effective.

 

Vihtavuori powder has become tyoo expensive. I use RL-17 (in place of Vv-N550) in 8X57IS, 7mm-08 & 30/40 Krag. I will be using Norma MRP (in place of Vv-N560) for 8mm-06 Ackley, 8X68S & 6.5X55 Mauser W/130gr bullets.

Edited March 11, 2016 by wildcat junkie

[shawnhu]

My local shop 45 mins away stocked a few hundred pounds of powder, so I'll be picking some up this weekend.

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[airedale]

WJ I am a big fan of MRP powder, it was almost like gold at one time and very hard to come by. I use it mostly in a 280 Rem and have seen some amazing MVs produced by that stuff along with wonderful working pressures. 

 

Al

[wildcat junkie]

WJ I am a big fan of MRP powder, it was almost like gold at one time and very hard to come by. I use it mostly in a 280 Rem and have seen some amazing MVs produced by that stuff along with wonderful working pressures. 

 

Al

IME, you can't stuff enough MRP into a 280 Remington case to get over pressure W/140gr bullets.

 

I was getting chronograph verified 3250fps W/139gr Hornady Interbonds over MRP in my M700 CDL in 280..Heeis what a close in shoulder blade hit did to the Interbonds at that Mv. Penetrated the whole deer diagonally before coming to rest under the hide on the opposite hindquarter.

 

 

When MRP became impossible to get I went to RL-22 but contrary to popular belief, it isn't the same. I had to watch for pressure & 3150 wa sthe best I could get W/RL-22. 

 

Even W/the blown out Improved case, the 8mm-06 Ackley has to be loaded to almost maximum compressed load to get to just under 63K which is a good max working pressure for the Ackley Improved case.

 

I'm anxious to get my barreled action back from Dennis Olson to try MRP in the 8mm-06 Ackley. I had not yet discovered that particular powder when I was loading that cartridge previously.

 

I  should be able to reach the doorstep 3100fps W/180gr BTs & 2950 W/200gr Hotcores. The 180gr NBT are devastating on deer, sucking lungs out on broadside hits. The previous best for thse was 2960 out of a 23 1/2" barrel with conventional powders that I was playing with at the time. Even then, I think I was way over pressure as I had no data to compare too.

Edited March 11, 2016 by wildcat junkie

[airedale]

WJ I had an old timer turn me on to MRP many years ago, he too had a 280 and the gun it was chambered in was of all things a Remington Model 4 auto loader. He loved the Nosler 160 partition bullet and he ended up settling for his final load using 62 grs of MRP and was getting slightly over 3000 fps with absolutely no sign of overly high pressure. Man I thought he was crazy until I saw it all at the range in person and believe me I was standing back when he touched things off. For me I ended up settling for 60.5 grs and the 150 partition for slightly over 3000 fps, again the cases fall out of the chamber with zero signs of overly high pressure. The load worked fine on everything I tried it on and I still use it today. By the way Natchez also carries MRP and I just picked up a couple of pounds myself. 

 

Al