buck to doe ratio...

[G-Man]

Anyone out there actually know how to determine your buck to do ratio? I've seen trail camera counts over bait in a given time period(can't feed deer in NY) I see the dec buck take per square mile...no idea how they determine that... Well any thoughts on how to. I have my camps harvest data for the last 15 years and we are seeing lots of bucks and harvesting them as well but I am trying to figure out if our doe take (10 a year right now) needs to be adjusted.

[SplitG2]

G-man, I use my trail cams on my food plots to determine B to D ratio along with visual observation.  It's not exact but get's me close.  I do one In June, Oct/Nov and January.

[G-Man]

we've been doing that right along and have had great sucess, but this year we literaly saw 2 to 3X as many buck as we did doe if i went by observation during bow season we would of had 4-1 in favor of the bucks, gun season was 1-5 for the doe, and muzzleloader 1-15 for the doe, I thought i could usually get a pretty good idea of the doe population of cam pics and sightings in summer. but i wonder if all the bucks had them in some kind of hiding? We took 10 doe again this year 4 during muzzleloader but we saw a lot more than i thought were availabled, just wondering how many are missed in the counting..and if there is some kind of formula to make a better educated guess?

[nyantler]

I think that help explain why it can be difficult for the DEC to gather that kind of info without aerial observation...

[G-Man]

Really joe i have no idea how the dec can get any numbers accuratly... I was thinking we had our doe down to about 3-1 but after muzzleloader season i really wonder.. i don't know how one could with out being in a high fenced area...damn deer don't stop wandering over the property lines! I guess i'll just have to keep the 10 doe a year goal and base that more on hunter satisfaction(harvesting makes people happy) than the real good hard science i was hoping to be enlightened on. 

[SplitG2]

G-man, how many acres you managing?

[nyantler]

Really joe i have no idea how the dec can get any numbers accuratly... I was thinking we had our doe down to about 3-1 but after muzzleloader season i really wonder.. i don't know how one could with out being in a high fenced area...damn deer don't stop wandering over the property lines! I guess i'll just have to keep the 10 doe a year goal and base that more on hunter satisfaction(harvesting makes people happy) than the real good hard science i was hoping to be enlightened on. 

We have the same problem on our leased land.. hard to come up with an accurate count each year.. thats why we usually wait until muzzleloader before taking doe off the property.. we use or season sightings as a gauge for the amount of doe we think we want to harvest... without radio collars and a plane its the best we can come up with..lol

[G-Man]

Just doing about 274 acres, 60 acres of sanctuary, about 20 acres of plantings, rest wooded, i am sandwiched inbetween to other large landowners,254 acres to the north and 360acres to the south. Deer were very over populated as the owner to the north hunts by himself(out of town owner)the neighbor to the south hunts with 2-3 family members, wasn't uncommon to see 30or more doe running together when i bought back iin 93'. we seem to have gotten the doe population down to reasonable numbers and usually just see groups of 5-7 now. The neighbor to the south usually tags out and the one to the north maybe gets 1 buck a year and maybe a doe(this year he got nothing) he seems to hunt 1 maybe 2-3 days a year(elderly). I always take into account what my neighbors harvest and i live on the property so i see the deer in the fields all year. Just trying to get a little more scientific in counting the numbers than i have in the past. We have harvested 283 deer off the property since 93' and 77 have been antlered buck.

[nyantler]

Well I've seen the bucks you've been harvesting so we know that part is working fine.. we have 1000 acres and its still difficult to get an accurate count... trail cames don't work all that well unless you have some way of telling different doe apart... the late season doe harvest for us is all that we can come up with.. but the doe population numbers fluctuate drastically year in and year out.. i think without sofisticated equipment it would be hard to do it any other way. We have had years where we have decided not to take as many does due to buck to doe sightings throughout the season.. only to see the ratio skewed again the following year... not sure what the answer is...

[SplitG2]

G-man, QDMA just came out with a book called Deer Cameras, the science of scouting.  There is a chapter on buck to doe ratio calc.  I will see if I can post some info.

http://www.qdma.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/QDMA-Survey-01.pdf

[Geno C]

always made me wonder how accurate or how they even mange 20,000 acres like in Texas or something. Free range no fence...

ive seen them turn in helicopter survey's and what not but supposedly there are plenty who can effectively manage their land and buck / doe ratios. how its done is beyond me...

[nyantler]

I think in Texas the feeders help!

[G-Man]

Splitg2, thanks for the info, i'll try it looks like it might work a little better than what i've been doing or at least give me something to show the guys i hunt with how to come up with a goal number. tough to convince someone that only comes down for a few days how many deer there really are,especially if they don't see them the day they are out. My neighbor to the north insists there are no deer, but every year we seem to get ours....of course living there and taking 3-4 weeks off work to hunt helps a little too. ;D

[Geno C]

i was giving texas as an example really... there are plenty of huge tracts that manage a deer herd very well and have it down to a science when it comes to ratios. Feeders aside... lol

and split, wish i can read what you posted, my computer is acting up trying to open your link

[G-Man]

I have a few issues on a late season doe harvest. 1. Having enough hunters to remove the goal number of does(its close to christmass and most guys I hunt with are marrier w kids) 2.will the doe still be there as I have a lack of thermal cover on my property and they will most likely be on my neighbors due to a 20year old pine plantation. 3. The button bucks are yet another month older and with hair fluffed for warmth it creates identification problems.

[Geno C]

i heard early season doe harvest is a good thing and predominantly mid season maybe peak of the rut is a good opportunity to harvest does while the bucks maybe in lock down mode with other does.

i love harvesting does and i tend to not hesitate to do so early season and during that time when i feel the bucks might be in lock down. you still never know when a shooter buck will walk by but its still a good time to take a doe...