Boreas Ponds Discussion

[Padre86]

Anyone else here heard of this huge debate going on about how to classify the new Boreas Ponds acquisition up in the Adirondacks?

It's a tract of land that was formerly owned by a paper company and was recently turned over to the state (via The Nature Conservancy).  I think the APA put out several proposals, all of which included allowing some measure of motorized access, but many of this state's environmental groups got angry that there was no option for excluding all motorized traffic (which would require a full-on wilderness classification).

More on the land and surrounding discussion here: http://nysnowmobiler.com/2016/08/boreas-ponds-wild-forest-or-wilderness/ and

http://www.adirondackalmanack.com/2016/11/boreas-ponds-paddlers-perspective.html#comments

So what do hunters here think of this?

Edited February 8, 2017 by Padre86

[silentdog]

I hunt that area.  Beautiful but low deer numbers. Having a road is a double-edged sword.  Allows us to get back there w/o much effort but the same with hikers, who can be pretty noisy. At the end of the road near the locked gate, about 3 miles from the main road, there is a large parking area.  Last day up there for me was a Saturday and it was busy.  Did not see same degree of traffic during the week. Hunted early beyond the gate and then came out to it.  About 6 cars with 2-4 people each pulled up, obviously traveling as a group. As soon as they stopped, they swiftly got out and ran for the woods, all dressed in orange and some carrying something white in their hands. I did not realize what was happening until some guy dropped his drawers & squatted in plain view of the lot after running for less than 50 yards. After doing their business, they gathered, cackled loudly for a few minutes and made their way towards the Ponds with their dog in tow and continuing with the noise.  

[sailinghudson25]

O live in the catskills.  Thr few public places they log make a huge difference in both small and big game hunting.

We have to share the woods with everyone. 

The more people enjoy public land, the better.  Deer and grouse go where hikers avoid.

The next generation should be enjoying outdoors however they want to, as long as it's responsible. 

In PA, you can't camp in SGL property, only forests.  

I think camping in allowed in all designations, except for specific spots. 

[silentdog]

I agree with everything you said.  I hope that the final designation is not wilderness for the entire tract as that will shut down the road.  

[Padre86]

On 3/27/2017 at 7:51 AM, silentdog said:

I agree with everything you said.  I hope that the final designation is not wilderness for the entire tract as that will shut down the road.  

I think most people agree with this concept.  We should preserve the wilderness aspect of the Boreas area, but there is minority, yet vocal, group (mostly consisting of self-proclaimed environmentalists) who want nearly all the road access shut down.  They're kicking and screaming about this issue; my take is keep at least some of the road access leading into the Pond so that hunters and anglers and everyone else has an easier time getting into the area.  The roads are already there, so it's not like we'll need to cut down new trees to make way for this access.

[Padre86]

23 hours ago, Padre86 said:

I think most people agree with this concept.  We should preserve the wild character of the Boreas area, but there is minority, yet vocal, group (mostly consisting of self-proclaimed environmentalists) who want nearly all the road access shut down.  They're kicking and screaming about this issue; my take is keep at least some of the road access leading into the Pond so that hunters and anglers and everyone else has an easier time getting into the area.  The roads are already there, so it's not like we'll need to cut down new trees to make way for this access.

How do I delete this post?

Edited March 29, 2017 by Padre86

[Salmon_Run]

Right now there are numerous tracts of land that have been sold to the Adirondack Nature Conservatory and given to the state that are being reclassified and camps have to be removed.

I believe most of these were former long term leases from Finch & Pruyn Paper Company.....

Macintyre West (Santanoni Club)

Gooley Club (Essex chain)

Sad..............

 

[b3h]

Where did the money come from to buy these tracts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Padre86]

The Nature Conservancy is a non-profit group that buys up lands (throughout the US) to transition them to public use/ownership.  I'm sure they have a large endowment set up, which is dependent on wealthy donors.  

 

I agree its sad to see some of the old camps get torn down, but then again, many of these lands were entirely off limits to the public prior to state ownership.  The public gets more lands to enjoy once these lands are acquired by the state.  I do wish the APA (Adirondack Park Agency) would be a little bit more selective with keeping certain historical structures and roads in place.  Any transfer of land to the NY state usually ushers in a huge debate over how to classify the land (which is not something I'd necessarily blame on The Nature Conservancy or the APA).

[Buckmaster7600]

The Nature Conservancy is a non-profit group that buys up lands (throughout the US) to transition them to public use/ownership.  I'm sure they have a large endowment set up, which is dependent on wealthy donors.  
 
I agree its sad to see some of the old camps get torn down, but then again, many of these lands were entirely off limits to the public prior to state ownership.  The public gets more lands to enjoy once these lands are acquired by the state.  I do wish the APA (Adirondack Park Agency) would be a little bit more selective with keeping certain historical structures and roads in place.  Any transfer of land to the NY state usually ushers in a huge debate over how to classify the land (which is not something I'd necessarily blame on The Nature Conservancy or the APA).

The problem I have with this is that most of this land will never be seen by a human now. The camps that were way in after they’re torn down the roads will be closed and there will only be hiking trails. Other than hikers going a-b on the trail this land will never be seen by humans. Don’t know of many hunters willing to walk in a trail 5+ Miles then venture off hunting. Hell most times you get more than a half mile from the parking spots and you don’t see any signs of humans.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Padre86]

On 8/7/2018 at 6:59 PM, Buckmaster7600 said:

The problem I have with this is that most of this land will never be seen by a human now. The camps that were way in after they’re torn down the roads will be closed and there will only be hiking trails. Other than hikers going a-b on the trail this land will never be seen by humans. Don’t know of many hunters willing to walk in a trail 5+ Miles then venture off hunting. Hell most times you get more than a half mile from the parking spots and you don’t see any signs of humans.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To some extent, I agree with you.  Although I do like having some roadless wilderness areas in the Adirondacks, I do also think it's good to have some road access to facilitate hunter, angler and snowmobile access (the latter activity is the biggest driver of the ADK's winter economy).

Anytime the Nature Conservancy acquires land, there is always a big fight over how to classify it: Wilderness (no roads) or Wild Fores (some roads).  

 

But truthfully, I'd much rather have access to said land, whether it be wilderness or wild forest, rather than no access at all.  Prior to the Nature Conservancy acquiring these private timber lands, like Boreas Ponds, we, the public, didn't have access to them.  So the road access and hunting camps that existed there before were a moot point IMHO; they only gave access to a select few.

[Buckmaster7600]

To some extent, I agree with you.  Although I do like having some roadless wilderness areas in the Adirondacks, I do also think it's good to have some road access to facilitate hunter, angler and snowmobile access (the latter activity is the biggest driver of the ADK's winter economy).
Anytime the Nature Conservancy acquires land, there is always a big fight over how to classify it: Wilderness (no roads) or Wild Fores (some roads).  
 
But truthfully, I'd much rather have access to said land, whether it be wilderness or wild forest, rather than no access at all.  Prior to the Nature Conservancy acquiring these private timber lands, like Boreas Ponds, we, the public, didn't have access to them.  So the road access and hunting camps that existed there before were a moot point IMHO; they only gave access to a select few.

Other than the fact that the land created income for the local economy via taxes. So while the public didn’t have access members of the camps did so it was most likely getting more use then it ever will now and the local economies are the ones taking the hit because every camp was paying taxes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Padre86]

19 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

 

Other than the fact that the land created income for the local economy via taxes. So while the public didn’t have access members of the camps did so it was most likely getting more use then it ever will now and the local economies are the ones taking the hit because every camp was paying taxes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

Yeah sure, the local economy gets some benefit from taxes and local industry.   I am not opposed to resource harvesting on certain lands, although some ADK advocacy groups are.  So long as the operations are conducted in a responsible manner.

 

I am opposed to exclusive use of the lands though.  Which is why I'll generally favor that lands be made public rather than remain in the hands of private organizations.  If the remaining timber companies want to stay viable up there, they'll have to find a way to allow for more public access (easement).  The old model of harvesting the land and leasing out to a few select hunting clubs is no longer viable in my opinion, at least for the ADK's.

 

The public can access all of these lands.  The classification of Boreas allows for road access up to within a few tenths of a mile from the main lake.  Some of the logging roads around the lake are closed off now.  Anyone is free to drive up and then hike into that area, whereas before only a select few could.  So the land will get some use still.