petersons honorable mention of qdm

[nyantler]

Yeah..i assume he just throws the rest of his deer out..and i like the suggestion that i was jobless..or thats what i read into it..

You assume wrong.. and I was in no way suggesting that you were jobless.. just pointing out that working would be a better way to feed the family... you're getting a bit paranoid now Rocket... stop letting your imagination run wild and you won't get so offended

[nyantler]

Well, don't forget where QDM started.  Texas, and the majority of Texans who practice QDM also fence their land.  It is pretty obvious that many feel they own the deer that they think are benefitting from THEIR QDM practices.  These ideas go hand in hand with each other.

Not true.. most QDM in Texas is run on huge ranches that are not fenced... but having corrected that.. i agree that many who practice what they call qdm have that "deer belong to me" attitude... you guys are confusing what people are calling QDM with the actual concept... if you don't believe in the concept of deer management then attack it as to how it doesn't work .. don't use bad examples to make points that have no validity.

With your rational.. we could say that all hunting is bad because there are some bad hunters

[Pat Rockets]

Not paranoid..read it to yerself..and hey..screw qdm..just stop everyone from hunting  for 3 yrs..all deer would go forth 3yrs..that way nothing needs managing..too many cooks with different opinions of taste..

[nyantler]

Not paranoid..read it to yerself..and hey..screw qdm..just stop everyone from hunting  for 3 yrs..all deer would go forth 3yrs..that way nothing needs managing..too many cooks with different opinions of taste..

You really don't get it Rocket and I'm pretty sure you never will.. just keep doin' what you're doin' .. doesn't really matter to me.

[Pat Rockets]

Thanks for the permission

[steve863]

Not true.. most QDM in Texas is run on huge ranches that are not fenced... but having corrected that..

I would like to see proof of that.  I tried googling the percentage of Texas ranches that are fenced and really couldn't come up with anything significant, however it has become common knowledge to just about anyone who knows anything about hunting that there is MORE fenced off deer habitat in Texas than anywhere else in this country.

[G-Man]

I would tend to agree with ny-antler. Although there are large high fenced ranches in texas it is a huge state! and i am sure most are 3 strand barbwire if fenced at all. You only see/ hear about the high fenced ones do to our highly touted hunting shows!! But as the synopisis says QDM on its own site stresses the ballanced age structure,harvesting enough does,restraint in harvesting youngbucks(notice restraint not NO!),adhearance to tresspass and wildlife laws,Improving habitat, and general health of a herd,resulting in a better hunter and hunting experiance. The Media/general hunting population has taken part of what they consider an overall plan and turned it into a trophy management plan. (not to offend anyone) But the best example of this is the word GAY it ment happy... and we all know what it means today!! If true QDM principals are to exist and be moved forward i think they will need a name change, as i do not feel any amount of education will sway the average hunter from thinking QDM is not trophy management!! J.M.O. as you are entitled to your own.

[nyantler]

Not true.. most QDM in Texas is run on huge ranches that are not fenced... but having corrected that..

I would like to see proof of that.  I tried googling the percentage of Texas ranches that are fenced and really couldn't come up with anything significant, however it has become common knowledge to just about anyone who knows anything about hunting that there is MORE fenced off deer habitat in Texas than anywhere else in this country.

First of all.. a fenced area would not be considered qdm.. no where in the QDM plan does it offer up any plan for any area that is not considered fair chase... fenced area management would be deer farming.. not QDM.. so in fact there are NO QDM programs going on in fenced areas... and when we talk fenced areas we are talking about high fence areas where deer can't come and go when they please... a barb wire fence does not constitute a fenced in area

[nyantler]

Not true.. most QDM in Texas is run on huge ranches that are not fenced... but having corrected that..

I would like to see proof of that.  I tried googling the percentage of Texas ranches that are fenced and really couldn't come up with anything significant, however it has become common knowledge to just about anyone who knows anything about hunting that there is MORE fenced off deer habitat in Texas than anywhere else in this country.

In fairness Steve.. you are correct that much of Texas range is high fenced and the property is managed for whitetails.. and there is hunting on these ranches.. my contention is that this is not true QDM and not the type of QDM that is talked about among the average hunter... I can understand the bad taste Texas hunting and what you see on TV has left in the hunting community when it comes to deer management for the hunter and the deer... it doesn't sit well with me either.

[erussell]

The benifit of a 3 1/2 or older buck in the herd is this, it will create a more intense rut, larger rubs, scrapes,ect. I truly believe there is a trophy buck in every one's hunting area. the question is are you willing to pass all the others in hope it walks by and give you a shot? Most hunters i know do not, which is their choice. I have shot enough sm. bucks and will shoot does to get my meat, the chioce is mine to wait for a large buck and i do not force it upon others, all i ask is don't get upset, call me names,ect when i do take a big buck. I worked for it!

Also a 4 1/2 yr old deer really fills the freezer nice.

[steve863]

Not true.. most QDM in Texas is run on huge ranches that are not fenced... but having corrected that..

I would like to see proof of that.  I tried googling the percentage of Texas ranches that are fenced and really couldn't come up with anything significant, however it has become common knowledge to just about anyone who knows anything about hunting that there is MORE fenced off deer habitat in Texas than anywhere else in this country.

First of all.. a fenced area would not be considered qdm.. no where in the QDM plan does it offer up any plan for any area that is not considered fair chase... fenced area management would be deer farming.. not QDM.. so in fact there are NO QDM programs going on in fenced areas... and when we talk fenced areas we are talking about high fence areas where deer can't come and go when they please... a barb wire fence does not constitute a fenced in area

I have no doubt that there are plenty of high fenced operations in Texas that still consider themselves fair chase even with the fences.  I am sure they wouldn't mind arguing the issue with you and whether or not their management practices should be considered QDM.  I have hunted in Texas twice actually, be it a good many years ago now.  All I can say is that they are masters in trying to make hunting as easy as possible for themselves.  QDM, fences, feeders, etc are all used to better the odds for themselves, so I will never be convinced that QDM is anything but another tool that benefits the hunter more than it will ever benefit the deer.

[nyantler]

I see all the things that you speak of and I agree with a lot of what you say... but those people aren't really practicing the actual concept... I have said on here before that I am not a member of the current QDMA much for the same reasons that you have stated.. but that doesn't mean I don't agree with the concept. I spent many years speaking about it and the concept is a good sound management idea that benefits both hunter and whitetails... you can hate the approach that some have taken in it's name but if you know the concept its a sound one.

[Pat Rockets]

I would tend to agree with ny-antler. Although there are large high fenced ranches in texas it is a huge state! and i am sure most are 3 strand barbwire if fenced at all. You only see/ hear about the high fenced ones do to our highly touted hunting shows!! But as the synopisis says QDM on its own site stresses the ballanced age structure,harvesting enough does,restraint in harvesting youngbucks(notice restraint not NO!),adhearance to tresspass and wildlife laws,Improving habitat, and general health of a herd,resulting in a better hunter and hunting experiance. The Media/general hunting population has taken part of what they consider an overall plan and turned it into a trophy management plan. (not to offend anyone) But the best example of this is the word GAY it ment happy... and we all know what it means today!! If true QDM principals are to exist and be moved forward i think they will need a name change, as i do not feel any amount of education will sway the average hunter from thinking QDM is not trophy management!! J.M.O. as you are entitled to your own.

A name change eh..like harvest instead of kill..food plotting, attractant, or lure instead of bait..

[nyantler]

Get off the same kick already Rocket... you have said the baiting thing enough times I think we get your point. You don't like QDM .. we get that too.. even though you don't know the first thing about it.

[Pat Rockets]

Alright ya fruitcake..do your "research"..look at the ar thread..im for it..but itll never happen..as far as you..i lost an antler load of respect when you said you dont buy it when people hunt to feed a fam..

[burmjohn]

G-man, I guess the thing many hunters seem to forget is that one can experience and enjoy nature year round.  One doesn't even need to hunt to enjoy and learn from nature actually.  When I go hunting, I want to kill something for my freezer.  It surely isn't guaranteed that I will, but that is why I am taking a weapon with me when I do go hunting.  If I want to just LOOK at deer I wouldn't need to take a weapon and don't even need to wait for hunting season to do it, I can do that any time.  So in general I don't agree that letting them walk during hunting season will evolve anyone into any sort of superior hunter over any other hunter.  I don't think these people are learning anything more by letting them walk during a hunting season, over someone who is a student of ALL nature at all other times.  The only thing they are doing is keeping a tag available for a trophy, which is the main reason they even venture out into nature.

So by passing on a deer your tagged as a trophy hunter?

[burmjohn]

I have no doubt that there are plenty of high fenced operations in Texas that still consider themselves fair chase even with the fences.  I am sure they wouldn't mind arguing the issue with you and whether or not their management practices should be considered QDM.  I have hunted in Texas twice actually, be it a good many years ago now.  All I can say is that they are masters in trying to make hunting as easy as possible for themselves.  QDM, fences, feeders, etc are all used to better the odds for themselves, so I will never be convinced that QDM is anything but another tool that benefits the hunter more than it will ever benefit the deer.

That's because you lump QDM with fences, feeders, and Texas... that alone has FAIL written all over it.  QDM != TEXAS

[Pat Rockets]

Id chew on a 2yr old trophy texas feeder fed fenced whitetail..but i wouldnt pay to go yet!....hahaha

[nyantler]

Alright ya fruitcake..do your "research"..look at the ar thread..im for it..but itll never happen..as far as you..i lost an antler load of respect when you said you dont buy it when people hunt to feed a fam..

hunting to feed your family is BS...just because you eat venison doesn't mean you need to hunt to feed your family... if my family was in that dire a need for meat I would hunt year 'round without a license and fill the freezers. But we're talking about hunting season here, not feed the family season.

The meat hunter excuse is lame IMO.. more an excuse for not having the restraint to pass on a small buck because the hunter is afraid he won't be able to tell his buddies that he got a buck that year... I have gone without a buck many times, but have yet to not put meat in the freezer...

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Thats why there is twice as many does as there is bucks in the average herd.Its still a choice but why not take a doe instead of a spindly little spike or 4 point.Let him walk and if yur lucky enough to see him next year a harvest him you will feel much better knowing you took a better buck.There are so many does that i dont think the meat thing holds water.A yearling doe will give about as much meat as a yearling buck.

[erussell]

Thats why there is twice as many does as there is bucks in the average herd.Its still a choice but why not take a doe instead of a spindly little spike or 4 point.Let him walk and if yur lucky enough to see him next year a harvest him you will feel much better knowing you took a better buck.There are so many does that i dont think the meat thing holds water.A yearling doe will give about as much meat as a yearling buck.

No, No, No let them shoot the babies and leave me Big Daddy!!    I concur that hunting isn't about filling the freezer. For the amount I spend on hunting I could have 2 freezer's full of food. Which unfortunately the old lady is more than happy to point out.    I could see it being cost effective back 20 yrs ago when everything was cheaper but with the riseing costs of everything from bullets to gas I think it would be cheaper to go to the store and fill your freezer. With that said I have no problem with someone shooting a younger deer, I choose not to and it works for me.

[G-Man]

I really hope every hunter evolves to think the way you do! fact is a lot won't or never will... I still feel its a personal  decision and do  not want ar's given by the state! i grew up shooting small bucks and although i am personally ready for the next step i choose as a landowner to let my friends and all others evolve at their own pace, only rule i have is don't compline if i shoot something bigger! qdm maybe given a bad rap by some but i understand the true version of it!! pat i acknowledge thaT FOOD PLOTSARE A FORM OF BAITING, in the broadest sence of the word, but leaving a pile in nys ia of now is  illegal and i wish you the best of luck in making it legal! i use to feed up to 3 tons of corn after the season ended but have adapted to planting up to 10-acres of corn or 1 ton per acre to help the deer thru the winter! i see your point but as of now it is illegal.. for those of you that think he is a crack pot ...at least he has the honor of standing by his convictions!! i respect you for that!  i'll end this by saying no one is right or wrong everyone is intitled to their own opinion but if it legal by law or it not that it what you need to change or be know as an outalaw!!

[Pat Rockets]

The editor of a highly publicised magazine has gone out on a limb and said what a huge  majority of us are thinkin..qdm is ruining deer hunting...its created people like antler..someone who hunts public land and wants everyone to pass on deer so he can justify his trips into the vastness of the mountains..little does he kno if he keeps going west he would find wny(huntingwny.com  area) here you will find vastness in crops and superb habitat along with wny hospitality..not city ignorance..ive never taken a smaller antlered buck than a 6pt..can you say that? I do go for monster bucks..the ones the hundreds of acres of corn draw in..however this yr the crops needed rotation and  there was an opposing effect on the normal deer traffic. I took that lil8(which many of you have supported that decision) if it werent for it..id not have gotten a deer this yr..meat in which i depend on..and when i say depend..i dont mean the diaper antler  has on..i or my family arent starving..or even close to it..much in part by the consistancy of gettin A deer..what your suggesting is that i buy my license..go out shoping for ego boosting bucks(cause thats all a set of antlers can do for ya) and just eat that overly priced tag cause a deer isnt head dressed enough to get me a woody? I looked for doe..they were 5 mi down the road eating the corn at 3pm till dark. I will always pat a guy on the back for making a clean kill, or pursuing his deer to see it end..regardless of size..fillin my freezer is a way of life..i alone hunt..no one does the work for me..start to finish..thats what I do..but you wont see me preachin to others to do  the same..i do however see what the editor speaks of..antler is exactly that..

As far as feeders..we make the state$ we get better programs..you dont need to research that..wheres the state benifit for lettin deer walk..if feeders were legal..the first week of gun the hacks would be outta ammo and we could get back to real hunting..thats how i see that happenin..not tryin to suck state ass..but they are broken..and they see us throwin huge $ for 1000 dollar bows and all that:.yet we bitch when licenses go up 10$..if the state felt we cared..they might consider opening and maintaining antlers play area(stateland)

[nyantler]

The editor of a highly publicised magazine has gone out on a limb and said what a huge  majority of us are thinkin..qdm is ruining deer hunting...its created people like antler..someone who hunts public land and wants everyone to pass on deer so he can justify his trips into the vastness of the mountains..little does he kno if he keeps going west he would find wny(huntingwny.com  area) here you will find vastness in crops and superb habitat along with wny hospitality..not city ignorance..ive never taken a smaller antlered buck than a 6pt..can you say that? I do go for monster bucks..the ones the hundreds of acres of corn draw in..however this yr the crops needed rotation and  there was an opposing effect on the normal deer traffic. I took that lil8(which many of you have supported that decision) if it werent for it..id not have gotten a deer this yr..meat in which i depend on..and when i say depend..i dont mean the diaper antler  has on..i or my family arent starving..or even close to it..much in part by the consistancy of gettin A deer..what your suggesting is that i buy my license..go out shoping for ego boosting bucks(cause thats all a set of antlers can do for ya) and just eat that overly priced tag cause a deer isnt head dressed enough to get me a woody? I looked for doe..they were 5 mi down the road eating the corn at 3pm till dark. I will always pat a guy on the back for making a clean kill, or pursuing his deer to see it end..regardless of size..fillin my freezer is a way of life..i alone hunt..no one does the work for me..start to finish..thats what I do..but you wont see me preachin to others to do  the same..i do however see what the editor speaks of..antler is exactly that..

As far as feeders..we make the state$ we get better programs..you dont need to research that..wheres the state benifit for lettin deer walk..if feeders were legal..the first week of gun the hacks would be outta ammo and we could get back to real hunting..thats how i see that happenin..not tryin to suck state ass..but they are broken..and they see us throwin huge $ for 1000 dollar bows and all that:.yet we bitch when licenses go up 10$..if the state felt we cared..they might consider opening and maintaining antlers play area(stateland)

Who ever said I want people passing on small bucks..  I'm just in favor of the idea... I don't push my way of hunting on anyone.. I just have an opinion on the subject. As for wny and vast farmland..I have all of that here in Madison county...

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Rocket i feel for you and anyone else that hunts in an area today that dont have a huge doe population.We never had that problem.Instead of slamin the way antler hunts and thinks you might want to take a page out of his book and hunt the land that the state allows you to hunt.If you are in an area like it sounds like you are mabey a couple years of qdm is what the area needs to get the balance turned around.Sometimes management works!!!