Checked plot..

[burmjohn]

I think some of us will have to agree to disagree on this one!

I'll agree with that

[Four Season Whitetail's]

No doubt thats why i plant every year not just deer its for all wildlife in general.I think i like my corn for the toms that it brings onto my property in the spring more than the deer in the fall.Sustaining wildlife year round is a far cry from baiting for a kill.Attractant yes a bait no. One species no. I will still say its not baiting if it grows out of the ground and feeds all year round. not just deer seasom!

[Doc]

Frankly, I have no problem with people putting whatever effort into food plotting that they want. It's not really any of my business anyway. However, I did get a bit torqued at the post that basically said that if you're not food plotting, you are not pulling your weight. That one was a bit over the top and needed a response.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Agreed with doc!! Mabey a bit much but i think its with passion that he makes that statement!! I just think plots of a certin size are a good thing and not baiting but scratch something under your ladder and you just made a bait pile in my opinion!!

[dave6x6]

Well, before you throw something out of joint patting yourself on the back with your self proclaimed hero-status, let me point out that deer and other animals have done just fine prior to food plots. And as some have pointed out, most of this food plotting has more to do with personal gain in attracting deer for personal hunting purposes than any sort of benevolent concerns for the welfare of wildlife. So it's probably time to climb down off your high horse and understand that food plotters are not the salvation of all things wild.

Also, don't be trying to make it sound like food plotters are the only ones that are paying their way. We all foot the bill for the real wildlife managers of the whole state. And just because you choose to draw deer to your own piece of property for the benefit of your own hunting, don't be over-stating the importance that your efforts have on the overall state wildlife picture. The rest of us are picking up the tab on that item.

So if you want to put in food plots, fine.....but don't be belittleing the contributions of those that don't.

OK Doc, i'm back on my meds so i'll keep this civil. Please try to understand it THIS TIME. The only ones that ever get belittled are the food plotters who always have to get the alterior motives speech. We never claimed to be heroes, we just are trying to make our slice of hunting heaven more enjoyable. For someone who doesn't really care, you still can't make a post without talking about our motives. Read the original post and then follow the non plotters reaction. Why couldn't ya'll just either stay out of this thread or say something like " nice looking plot buddy, hope you have some awesome hunts this year!" NOPE Instead it's just another oportunity for you to give your opinion about something which you have no clue about. Unless your a mind reader. Just another opportunity to give your opinion about us being one step away from being Texas Whitetailers. My point about plotters at least doing something for the wildlife as compared to most hunters is also pretty un-deniable as well. If there are 750,000 hunters in NY State, can you honestly deny that at least 1/3 of them do anything other than buy a tag and show up to hunt? Were not looking for a medal, i just think you should find someone else to argue with cus you don't have a clue why we do what we do? Seriously, I'm trying to be less arguementative.

[Doc]

OK Doc, i'm back on my meds so i'll keep this civil. Please try to understand it THIS TIME. The only ones that ever get belittled are the food plotters who always have to get the alterior motives speech. We never claimed to be heroes, we just are trying to make our slice of hunting heaven more enjoyable. For someone who doesn't really care, you still can't make a post without talking about our motives. Read the original post and then follow the non plotters reaction. Why couldn't ya'll just either stay out of this thread or say something like " nice looking plot buddy, hope you have some awesome hunts this year!" NOPE Instead it's just another oportunity for you to give your opinion about something which you have no clue about. Unless your a mind reader. Just another opportunity to give your opinion about us being one step away from being Texas Whitetailers. My point about plotters at least doing something for the wildlife as compared to most hunters is also pretty un-deniable as well. If there are 750,000 hunters in NY State, can you honestly deny that at least 1/3 of them do anything other than buy a tag and show up to hunt? Were not looking for a medal, i just think you should find someone else to argue with cus you don't have a clue why we do what we do? Seriously, I'm trying to be less arguementative.

I'll just stay with exactly what I said in my reply. I think it was a good assessment of what you were saying and I also think the response was appropriate.

[steve863]

And then when they do and mention it to someone like Steve, they get the whole baloney, stickup his arss attitude about food plots.

You're not talking to me are you? Why don't you first learn to read. I don't give a rats ass if you plant or hunt over food plots. You boys get all pissed if anyone makes any sort of comment about food plots. Those are your problems and insecurities and not ours. No one is telling you that food plots should be illegal. We only point out how others may view them which are as an attractant and an attractant can also be viewed as a bait. Quite simple to understand for those who want to.

[burmjohn]

You're not talking to me are you? Why don't you first learn to read. I don't give a rats ass if you plant or hunt over food plots. You boys get all pissed if anyone makes any sort of comment about food plots. Those are your problems and insecurities and not ours. No one is telling you that food plots should be illegal. We only point out how others may view them which are as an attractant and an attractant can also be viewed as a bait. Quite simple to understand for those who want to.

They are not insecurities, we are just combating the FUD your spreading about food plots.

[steve863]

They are not insecurities, we are just combating the FUD your spreading about food plots.

As the famous movie line goes. "You guys can't handle the truth". Why don't you fellas go out and feed all the rest of the critters that walk the earth since you feel so kind in helping wildlife? Yeah, some may help themselves to your plots, but I'll bet any of you any money you want that if it weren't for the deer that you have interest in, those food plots wouldn't be put out for raccoons, possums or anything else.

[burmjohn]

As the famous movie line goes. "You guys can't handle the truth". Why don't you fellas go out and feed all the rest of the critters that walk the earth since you feel so kind in helping wildlife? Yeah, some may help themselves to your plots, but I'll bet any of you any money you want that if it weren't for the deer that you have interest in, those food plots wouldn't be put out for raccoons, possums or anything else.

Keep spreading that FUD! I wouldn't have property if it wasn't for the love outdoors either. And yup, our plots feed everything that happens to roam out onto them, thanks for pointing that out. I have a picture of pretty much everything you can think of from the trail camera on the plot, from racoons, to fishers, deer, bear, turkey, bob cats, rabbits, yotes, and woodchucks.

[steve863]

And you can continue to try to bamboozle those who are gullible that you would continue to plant food plots for those other critters if deer weren't somehow in the picture.LOL Some of us have been hunting longer than you and have heard all sorts of BS hunting stories over the years. It seems like you young ones are continuing the BS tradition in another sort of way! LOL

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Thanks steve,I hope i am one of the young guys you speak of..Pushin the big 50 and still planting on over 700 acres of some prime hunting land.Myself im more baiting for the turkeys on the 6 or 7 food plots in that 700 acres every year.I can see big deer any time its those coons,yotes,woodchucks and all the rest that kind of game animal i like to see.I have been bamboozlin people for a long time with my bait and switch antic's...Glad to see some 30 yr olds comin in with reinforcements as im getting old,Mabey i should just open the place up to the 30 something hunters that knock on my door every year to ask if they can hunt on all my bait piles!

[burmjohn]

And you can continue to try to bamboozle those who are gullible that you would continue to plant food plots for those other critters if deer weren't somehow in the picture.LOL Some of us have been hunting longer than you and have heard all sorts of BS hunting stories over the years. It seems like you young ones are continuing the BS tradition in another sort of way! LOL

What you don't get is no one is trying to bamboozle anyone, just disputing your misinformed posts.

[nyantler]

What you don't get is no one is trying to bamboozle anyone, just disputing your misinformed posts.

John I can promise you I am not misinformed.. in fact I was probably doing seminars on QDM and supplimental food plots before you began hunting.. I just happen to have an opinion on where hunters have taken food plots from their initial concept... what many food plotters need to learn is when and where to food plot... as I have said before I am not against food plotting as supplimental feeding where and when they are necessary... food plots should be supplimental food sources planted after the land manager has taken every step to enhance all existing natural plant communities on the property... then and only then is when you consider what is lacking and plant accordingly... that is not the same as planting crops that will only hold or attract deer during the hunting season.. which .. in most cases.. maybe not in all case, but in most cases is what hunters consider food plotting.. thats not how the concept was designed. the concept was design to maximize the brouse during the toughest part of the winters.. to keep areas from becoming over broused and allowing deer to maintain nutrition levels when food is hardest to get... the concept did not allow for planting acres of Biologic during the summer months in agricultural areas where food is plentiful. I can get into much more, but much of it gets into carrying capacity vs food consumption and average deer food intake per acre and other more scientific stuff that would take for ever to explain on here...

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Joe the only question i have is..Do you think that there is any difference in a hunter planting up in the mountains where you hunt or in the farm belt where most people hunt.When you talk feeding deer in the mountains you have woods and can cut tree tops.ect.ect to help get the deer through the winter.On our 700acres this year i have over 500 acres of soybeans planted,mabey 50 acres of so called baiting plots 100 acres of swamp,cattails,high grass,ect and mabey 50 acres of woods.Its a total different game on different place of the deers home range.It would be very hard reguardless of what you do to 50acres of woods to sustain any amount of animals throught the hard months. I dont know if you have saw up to 100 deer in a bait plot in the middle of a hard north country winter but if they could talk and would lift their heads up out of the feed lonh enough....I think they would say we are thankful for this meal!!!

[dave6x6]

Stevie, My 26 yr old daughter thought your post was hillarious. Wish i knew how to put it on facebook.

[burmjohn]

John I can promise you I am not misinformed..

That post wasn't directed towards you. I respect your views although I don't agree with all of them, its when others don't respect mine is when there is an issue.

[nyantler]

Joe the only question i have is..Do you think that there is any difference in a hunter planting up in the mountains where you hunt or in the farm belt where most people hunt.When you talk feeding deer in the mountains you have woods and can cut tree tops.ect.ect to help get the deer through the winter.On our 700acres this year i have over 500 acres of soybeans planted,mabey 50 acres of so called baiting plots 100 acres of swamp,cattails,high grass,ect and mabey 50 acres of woods.Its a total different game on different place of the deers home range.It would be very hard reguardless of what you do to 50acres of woods to sustain any amount of animals throught the hard months. I dont know if you have saw up to 100 deer in a bait plot in the middle of a hard north country winter but if they could talk and would lift their heads up out of the feed lonh enough....I think they would say we are thankful for this meal!!!

I can put out a swimming pool of ice cream for kids to eat too and they will show up in droves to eat it.. but that doesn't mean it's the best thing for them. What I said in my last post was simple... Until you have done everything to examine and enhance all plant communities on your land (in the mountains or on the farm)... you can't begin to know what the deer actually need in that area... Like the kids and the ice cream.. just because they come to it and eat it doesn't mean its the best thing for them... supplimental food plots have a place... my opinion is that most of those planting them have no idea how or why to food plot as it pertains to deer nutrition or have ever even learned about what deer need as far as nutritional food in their area... they plant simply because they know that it attracts deer... then they use the "feeding the wildlife" to justify it.. That is not what food plotting is about..by the way I don't just hunt in the mountains I have about 1000 acres of agricultural land that I hunt as well...

[nyantler]

That post wasn't directed towards you. I respect your views although I don't agree with all of them, Its when others don't respect mine is when there is an issue.

If we all agreed there would be no need for a forum... although we might disagree.. it never hurts to know what others are thinking... sometimes we learn things.. sometimes we learn things about people... and sometimes we just argue cuz its fun to see peoples heads explode..

[dave6x6]

I can put out a swimming pool of ice cream for kids to eat too and they will show up in droves to eat it.. but that doesn't mean it's the best thing for them. What I said in my last post was simple... Until you have done everything to examine and enhance all plant communities on your land (in the mountains or on the farm)... you can't begin to know what the deer actually need in that area... Like the kids and the ice cream.. just because they come to it and eat it doesn't mean its the best thing for them... supplimental food plots have a place... my opinion is that most of those planting them have no idea how or why to food plot as it pertains to deer nutrition or have ever even learned about what deer need as far as nutritional food in their area... they plant simply because they know that it attracts deer... then they use the "feeding the wildlife" to justify it.. That is not what food plotting is about..by the way I don't just hunt in the mountains I have about 1000 acres of agricultural land that I hunt as well...

Your really poopin' it out now Joe.. Only you and a handful of guys who are really into the deer biology could tell you what a deers yearly nutritional needs are. Most hunters could tell you what they like to eat but not what they need to eat or why they eat what they do at certain times of the yr. Well there is you and pretty much any serious food plotter. Thank you for bringing up another point that shows that some of us are knowledgeable even beyond our yrs.. Oh and i would hardly compare feeding deer 35% protein clover to feeding kids ice cream.. More like feeding them broccoli that tastes like chocolate puddin.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

So you think that a 50 acre woodlot is going to sustain 50 to 100 deer through a north country winter... I would have to say you are sadly mistaken reguardless of what i do to enhance the woods.I appreciate what you say you know as far as deer nutrition but i would have to say i know a thing or two about the needs of the whitetail deer. On another note hunting on mountain land and farm land is alot different than supplemental feeding for wintering deer on farm or mountain land.When 500 acres of soybeans or corn is harvested depending on the crop of the year,the deer and turkeys and any other animal that has been hitting that food source changes.

[dave6x6]

Steven, You forced me to change my profile pics. Bad enough i get all these PM's from the lady hunters, now i got you lumpin' me in with the young ones..

[cwhite]

No BS here. I plant food plots to have a bigger and stronger herd to hunt. We have 6 of them. Some are for hunting and others are designed to give starving deer a break in the winter. One thing for sure is that there is a huge difference between food plots and food plops (bait piles). It is all about conditioned responses.

Bait piles and automatic feeder’s condition deer to respond to a specific area. They are usually piles of "candy" with little nutrition. You determine how much feed is there, when it gets there, and how long you are going to keep feed in the spot. Basically you are rationing the deer. Ever watch a hunting show where corn is scattered around? Frequently you hear the hosts talking about the deer showing up 15 minutes later. Same thing happens with your bait pile. The deer behavior is conditioned much the same way Pavlov conditioned dogs.

Even if the food plots seeds are found on Jupiter (exaggeration), once they are planted and established in an area they become as natural a food source as the overgrown apple orchard, the farmer’s alphalpha field or the planted stand of oaks. Other than the initial planting there is no human intrusion. The feed is there 24 hours a day 7 days a week for the life cycle of the plants. I can speak from experience. In the past 5 years I have seen an increase in body weights, antler size and fawn mortality. No one can make those claims from a lone bait pile.

But, to be 100% honest, the food plots are there to aid in my success in the deer blind. If I didn’t hunt they wouldn’t be planted. (I would probably have a yacht with all the money I would save) One thing for sure, they are much better for all wildlife than a bait pile.

[Ford]

I am glad I planted a plot this year, now I am guaranteed a nice buck this season. I will just stroll up to the plot at 11 am, and blamo! Case closed.

On a serious note, I would think that food plots do something for the native plants I have not seen posted. It takes the pressure off all the trees and foliage that gets beaten up pretty bad by browsing. Leaving even more food in those snowy times...

Edited October 12, 2011 by Ford

[nyantler]

Your really poopin' it out now Joe.. Only you and a handful of guys who are really into the deer biology could tell you what a deers yearly nutritional needs are. Most hunters could tell you what they like to eat but not what they need to eat or why they eat what they do at certain times of the yr. Well there is you and pretty much any serious food plotter. Thank you for bringing up another point that shows that some of us are knowledgeable even beyond our yrs.. Oh and i would hardly compare feeding deer 35% protein clover to feeding kids ice cream.. More like feeding them broccoli that tastes like chocolate puddin.

ok we'll feed the kids a protein chocolate milk shake ... the point remains the same... I'm sure most guys don't have any idea what the carrying capacity of their property is based on available food source versus number of deer... plant enough food on a small peice of land and your 100, 200, 300 deer will eat that food source all up leaving nothing for the remainder of the bad days of winter... creating the same problem of over brousing as was there before.. so like it or not it is somewhat scientific