No brow tines

[Dave]

I can't over state what WNY said earlier. You guys would be chasing your tails to try to do anything in a wild situation. It is impossible to determine what the contribution of the does in your area are. You could have monster bucks with 12" brows and the does genetics could toss it out the window.

So you are saying it is that it is, and it can't be corrected.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Do you think that if we remove some spikes this year that would help with the genetics. As a rule we don't shoot spikes and small 4ptrs. Remember next year we have AR in my area. Just a thought.

Nope, I honestly believe that there is no way you can have an effect on genetics in a wild herd of deer. It would take strict management and probably 2 or 3 human lifetimes of it to change the genetic makeup of an area's herd. Ill see if I can dig up some links to studies that show it. Its been proven that spikes can grow into very nice bucks if given age. If you want to shoot them, go for it.

No matter what QDM principals I read about, discuss and learn, I am a firm believer in people shooting whatever legal deer they want, and having fun doing it within whatever legal means they choose to use.

[chiefbkt]

I will cite some long-term data collected from the Texas’ Kerr Wildlife Management Area.

"From 1974 to 1997, this research facility was involved in a number of studies designed to determine the role of nutrition and genetics in white-tailed deer antler development. During each of various studies that took place over that time, researchers recorded antler information for individual bucks throughout that 23 year period. This wealth of data allowed biologists to back-track 217 bucks from yearlings (1 1/2) to 3 1/2 years of age and 168 bucks until they were 4 1/2 years old. So what did they find?

In short, data from 385 bucks found that 90% of the bucks without brow tines at 3 1/2 and 4 1/2 years of age were spikes as yearlings (1 1/2 years old). All bucks without brow tines at 1 1/2 years old lacked brow tines at 4 1/2 years old. On the other hand, all bucks with 5 or more points as yearlings had both brow tines at maturity. Bucks that had both brow tines as yearlings had both brow tines at 3 1/2 and 4 1/2 years of age.

The numbers above speak for themselves. In addition, we know that antler characteristics in white-tailed deer are highly heritable, so the probability of passing on genes for larger (or smaller) antlers is high depending on the quality of the bucks doing the breeding. If you are seeing a good number of bucks without brow tines on your ranch, then you now know it’s all in the genes. The only way to improve antler quality and reverse missing brow tines is to put pressure on spikes and bucks without brow tines, regardless of age. Your deer management practices should also include rolling over the doe herd to reduce the number of old does sired by bucks lacking brow tines."

[Dave]

I will cite some long-term data collected from the Texas’ Kerr Wildlife Management Area.

"From 1974 to 1997, this research facility was involved in a number of studies designed to determine the role of nutrition and genetics in white-tailed deer antler development. During each of various studies that took place over that time, researchers recorded antler information for individual bucks throughout that 23 year period. This wealth of data allowed biologists to back-track 217 bucks from yearlings (1 1/2) to 3 1/2 years of age and 168 bucks until they were 4 1/2 years old. So what did they find?

In short, data from 385 bucks found that 90% of the bucks without brow tines at 3 1/2 and 4 1/2 years of age were spikes as yearlings (1 1/2 years old). All bucks without brow tines at 1 1/2 years old lacked brow tines at 4 1/2 years old. On the other hand, all bucks with 5 or more points as yearlings had both brow tines at maturity. Bucks that had both brow tines as yearlings had both brow tines at 3 1/2 and 4 1/2 years of age.

The numbers above speak for themselves. In addition, we know that antler characteristics in white-tailed deer are highly heritable, so the probability of passing on genes for larger (or smaller) antlers is high depending on the quality of the bucks doing the breeding. If you are seeing a good number of bucks without brow tines on your ranch, then you now know it’s all in the genes. The only way to improve antler quality and reverse missing brow tines is to put pressure on spikes and bucks without brow tines, regardless of age. Your deer management practices should also include rolling over the doe herd to reduce the number of old does sired by bucks lacking brow tines."

Chief, thanks for the information it answers a lot of questions I had. So it they don't have brow times when they are 1 1/2 yrs old they will not have times at 4 yrs old. Thanks for the research.

[WNY Bowhunter]

Chief, thanks for the information it answers a lot of questions I had. So it they don't have brow times when they are 1 1/2 yrs old they will not have times at 4 yrs old. Thanks for the research.

Not true.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

So you are saying it is that it is, and it can't be corrected.

I honestly don't think we as hunters can effect the wild population of the free ranging herd to modify characteristics. Way too many variables. It would be like trying to modify the human population to all brown eyes by taking the blue eyed males out, without seeing what the mothers eyes were. LOL. I was going to try to get into a genetics on the B vs b for eyes and I decided I didn't want to stretch what I remembered from all those years ago in Bio...lol. Memory isn't what it used to be.

I have the same problem in the area I hunt at home. A rack with 4" brow tines is great. usually they are less than that or not even there. First buck I took on that property was in 94 and havent seen one on the ground yet with brow tines longer. A lot of really nice racks but lacking in brows

[WNYBuckHunter]

Heres a good read from the Texas Deer Association. If you read it you will get an idea what kind of effort it really takes to alter genetics in any herd of deer, wild or fenced.

http://www.texasdeer...articles_id=275

I would suggest doing some google searches and reading more than one study on this stuff rather than just taking the word of one paragraph from one study.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

FYI- It appears the study followed the development of individual deer and I can't find what it says about how those genes are passed on the the other generations. It seems to not address the does genetic contribution to the racks. The study was conducted in a high fence environment though.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/hunt/wma/find_a_wma/list/?id=12&section=deerPens

[5.9cummins]

I honestly don't think we as hunters can effect the wild population of the free ranging herd to modify characteristics. Way too many variables. It would be like trying to modify the human population to all brown eyes by taking the blue eyed males out, without seeing what the mothers eyes were. LOL. I was going to try to get into a genetics on the B vs b for eyes and I decided I didn't want to stretch what I remembered from all those years ago in Bio...lol. Memory isn't what it used to be.

I have the same problem in the area I hunt at home. A rack with 4" brow tines is great. usually they are less than that or not even there. First buck I took on that property was in 94 and havent seen one on the ground yet with brow tines longer. A lot of really nice racks but lacking in brows

That's a good analogy.

Way to many variables for us with a couple tags a year to really be able to effect anything.

Edited November 11, 2011 by 5.9cummins