Soil Ph

[cbx46]

Does anyone have any experience with the Biologic "meter type" ph tester? What is better or worse that type the soil testing kits from say White tail Institue or I there a place that you can send your samples and how do you collect and ship them?

[hunterman7956]

Send for whitetail inst. kit $10.00 last i used . everything is in kit with instructions . Hope this helps....

[Fantail]

I have the evolved habitats meter.

Is it accurate? Well after taking multiple samples and checking the readings I'd say it's ok. But the tips are not very durable. Jabbing the probes right into the ground is a sure way to break them. I always use a small shovel and turn a sampling.

[Geno C]

i use my biologic meter and its worked great for me for years

[ants]

Same here, biologic meter seems to work very well.

[cbx46]

Awesome guys thanks for the help the meter seems so much easier then sending samples. Plus I am sure you can google amounts of nitrogen per acre based on the current ph and the goal ph.

[Geno C]

Awesome guys thanks for the help the meter seems so much easier then sending samples. Plus I am sure you can google amounts of nitrogen per acre based on the current ph and the goal ph.

the advantage to sending the soil out is they will tell you exactly what you are lacking and what should be added and how much. The Soil meter from biologic is great for ball park and its deff a good tool for food plotting. i always used it for food plots and it seems to work great for me on my plots.

[dave6x6]

Awesome guys thanks for the help the meter seems so much easier then sending samples. Plus I am sure you can google amounts of nitrogen per acre based on the current ph and the goal ph.

Not really sure about the biologic meter but i personally would not trust them if i was starting a new food plot. And i certainly would not ball park the N-P-K figures. With the cost of fertilizer today, to me it just makes more sense to send your sample off to Whitetail Inst. so that you get back the complete report on exactly what your soil needs to grow the specific plant your putting in the ground. You can certainly fudge some things with food plot plantings but why guess and run the risk of putting down products that your plants may not even need, wasting money, or worse yet, not putting down the proper amounts and having a plot that comes in like crap and becomes a hot bed for weeds the first couple years. Now for an existing plot that you have been working for a few years, the do it yourself meters would probably be fine to give you some sort of idea where it stands and if some sort of a boost is needed in the nutrient department. But still, for $17 , I would rather have the exact lab results. It may save you a couple hundred in Lime and Fertilizer. Also CBX. you cant ballpark NPK figures based on PH levels. They have nothing to do with each other. They need to be brought up to their desired levels independant of each other.. Edited January 10, 2012 by dave6x6

[cbx46]

Thank you I will send out a sample.

[NYBowhunter]

No need to mail out samples, if you have a local Agway they will test your soil and provide a detailed analysis. Agway, atleast the one by me can provide a basic on the spot test to get a PH reading just to get fast information, however their more in depth test is worth its weight in gold... importantly is that the soil test can be crop specific....i.e lime and fertilizer needed per acre based upon the specific needs of the plot your planting. Best of all when you get the results all your food plot needs can be had at your Agway as well...i.e lime (in bulk..pelletized or crushed), fertilizer, seeds. This is a great way to build a relationship with your local farmers co-op, for me Agway's information has been very informative and had helped me when I broke into foodplots years ago. I must say that many people including myself got caught up in many of the commercial hunting industry leaders marketing tactics and I can see where we can really believe that their products (seeds) are better then lets say can be had at your local Agway. My first years planting plots I planted one plot with a commercial clover seed and another plot with an Agway based ladino clover and to be honest I cant tell the difference between Agway Ladino and a commercial marketed giant clover and the commercial seed was SUBSTANTIALY more expensive. Well now I strictly use Agway seeds when available and I can mix and match seeds based upon what I want to accomplish. I was also pleasantly surprised to find out how many different seeds i.e. clovers, brassicas, grains etc....that can be had by the lb.at my local Agway. Hope this information helps.

[dave6x6]

NYBowhunter, You are absolutely correct about getting lab reports from Agway. I only mentioned the Whitetail Inst. lab because that is the most convenient for me. I wish i had an Agway close by. I've also sent stuff to Cornell. By all means, if you have a Co-op or farm service that is close by then that would be your best choice. It sounds like we would agree that in general, using a lab tested soil report is worth the time and effort when you absolutely need to know the nutrient levels of your soil. The DIY tests do have a place in your food plot arsenal, and i do think you can get a fairly good PH result from using some of them, but for me they are only used on plots that are existing and appear to be in good health. New ground and plots with obvious problems that you are trying to save will need lab reports to get it right. As far as ag seed vs. designer seeds go, well i guess i would respectfully disagree. We've tested many side by side and can tell you that Whitetail products work best for us. Hope that doesn't get this thread off tract. LOL

[NYBowhunter]

NYBowhunter, You are absolutely correct about getting lab reports from Agway. I only mentioned the Whitetail Inst. lab because that is the most convenient for me. I wish i had an Agway close by. I've also sent stuff to Cornell. By all means, if you have a Co-op or farm service that is close by then that would be your best choice. It sounds like we would agree that in general, using a lab tested soil report is worth the time and effort when you absolutely need to know the nutrient levels of your soil. The DIY tests do have a place in your food plot arsenal, and i do think you can get a fairly good PH result from using some of them, but for me they are only used on plots that are existing and appear to be in good health. New ground and plots with obvious problems that you are trying to save will need lab reports to get it right. As far as ag seed vs. designer seeds go, well i guess i would respectfully disagree. We've tested many side by side and can tell you that Whitetail products work best for us. Hope that doesn't get this thread off tract. LOL

No I dont think difference of opinions should throw this off topic if we are honest about what we have done in our field work. Good honest conversation backed by tested experience will only assist those who are new to foodplots decide as to what route they want to go. Whitetail products are good and their service is even better. If their seed works for you and the plots are producing why change that, no reason to. Having said that I tested both Whitetail and Agway seeds in terms of a giant white clover and I dont see a difference in terms of size and production. I just cant justify paying $40 for 3 lbs of clover for a commercial product when I can get the same product at Agway and pay a 1/3 of that price. I also have used Agway Brassica seeds such as PT Turnips, Pasja Turnips and I have also used homegrown seeds with much success. Outside of the clover, maybe Whitetail Inst. or other commercially advertised seeds do have some superior seed blends but that I cant respond on as I have not tested those products.

[dave6x6]

Here's some of my thoughts on ag clover and why i don't use it. Ag clover is designed to feed livestock and does a great job of that because of the tonnage ratio's per acre that these forages produce. When feeding livestock, you are basically only worried about pure tonnage and not so much with protien levels and palatability. Therefore they are generally much more stemmy and fiborous. I think that many people are impressed with the ag clover because of the way it looks after they plant it. Very tall, lush and healthy looking plants. But us hunters are not attracting cows. Cows dont care what the stems taste like. Cows eat what the are fed. Deer on the other hand are much more fussy about their clover. They much prefer the tender leaves and shoots over the more rigid, fiber stalks. We have done side by side tests with a number of different clovers in an effort to find the most attractive ones to plant on our properties as well as our clients and what we found was eye opening. The ag clover was definetly a beautiful, lush green plot. The only problem was the deer never touched it until Feb. when it was the only thing left to dig for. The whitetail stuff looked like it was half as tall but only because the deer ate it straight through the season. We would litterally watch the deer enter the WI field, graze til they got to the other brands, then turn around and work through the WI plot til they got to the next side. If you hunt in big woods areas, ag clover may bring deer in, But in the agricultural areas of Central and Western NY, there is plenty of food for deer to eat during the hunting season. So if you want to pull them off the beans and the corn and the apples and acorns, Then you better have a tasty clover mix. Not just one that looks good.

Edited January 11, 2012 by dave6x6

[G-Man]

Doing anything is better than nothing, yes there are a lot of specfic clovers developed for deer. but there are a lot of deer that still feed in a farmers hay field after those "cattle " forages. The only way for these specialty seed blends to out draw natural forage is for the conditions to be perfect for them. For 90% or more of food ploters they do not have the equipment nessary or extra $ to do it proffessionally. I recomend doing what you can afford. face it if you do a 30x30 spot perfect it will draw deer and dissappear fast maybe before you can even hunt it .but 2 acres of an affordable seed and prep will last a lot longer. White clovers draw better than red. Do what you can afford to do to the best of your ability. i personally would rather do a larger plot without top $ seed then only be able to afford a small plot that may be eaten down before season comes. Every property is different and what may draw on one may not be the draw on another, if your surrounded by ag cornfields, planting corn probably wont help you. same as clover /alfalfa fields, planting more clover wether whittail specfic or not will not be as big a draw as a different planting. everyone gets sick of the same thing all the time, deer do to..

[NYBowhunter]

All because Agway is considered an AG store does not mean all their seeds are geared toward a farmers needs, actually the opposite my Agway has all types of seeds sold by the lb. and even sells the fancy commercially bagged types. I dont think we realize how much the foodplot industry has grown and I think co-ops like Agway realize this and offer a wide variety of non-typical farmer seeds. I dont know of any farmers in my area that plant turnips (they are big on corn), but go to Agway and you can buy a few different variety types. What I'm trying to get at is a white ladino clover is what I use and I THINK most companies use this seed as well however name it whatever they want. I can tell you that deer will walk through my commercially seeded food plot to get at my Agway planted Ladino clover. Side by side, the white ladino clover (which by the way is a giant white clover variety that originated in Italy) and the commercial white clover from what I have observed are identical in terms of growth rate, stem girth, clover size and look very much alike. As far as being palatable I dont see a difference in the two, keeping the clover mowed to be no more then 6 inches keeps all the clover tender with new growth. Remember I'm comparing apples to apples, we are talking about a large white clover. There are a multitude of red and yellow clovers that may constitute a farmers field to feed his cows. My ladino clover fields are hit hard all year round and are even dug up under snow. Not to say that deer dont eat my commercial prepared (innoculated) white clover because I would be lying, but they also eat the ladino white clover with same gusto and all appear to be extremely healthy. So why not use a cheaper seed sold at Agway, cheaper does not mean its an inferior product. From a business perspective, just think of the marketing and research costs that these companies incur and in turn they must pass those costs onto you hence a more expensive seed..... Again, use what works for you, if the deer are healthier (which is very important to me) and supplements their feeding through the year, then use that product. I dont strictly use clover, however it is the main year round food supplement for deer.

[dave6x6]

Again, this is why i use WI products. Insight and Advantage Ladino Clover !!! You can't buy these varieties anywhere other than WI. If you want to buy Agway Ladino or Biologic or Antler King then go ahead. You are absolutely right, those clovers are probably the same exact thing. But you can't say that about WI. Only they have Insight and Advantage Ladino because they invented it. (so to speak). I realize that this is one of those no win debates because unless we can be transformed into a deer then we'll never know. Lets just say your way makes you feel good because you saved a few bucks on seed and my way makes me feel good because i bought the best clover out there..

[Gthphtm]

Any good food and grain store should be able to test your soil.It is nor rocket since,I worked in a lab.for 45 years and we had quite a few chemists and all kinds of fancy test equipt.And beleive it or not those little paper test strips were very close to all of the latest test.equiptment.

[dave6x6]

By the way, i couldn't agree more with G-mans observations and advice. Every piece of property is different and what works great for you may not work at all for me and visa-versa. I also have a bit of a bias because i do installation and deer property management for clients. For this reason, i cannot afford to put anything in the ground that i am not 100% convinced will make the clients happy and will perform to their high expectations.. Pretty good seed products and attractiveness to deer is not going to cut it. Crop failure or a lack of increased deer hunting satisfaction is not an option. When it comes to overall costs involved in installing and maintaining a perrenial plot like clover, seed cost is a pretty small part of the equation. And spread out over the 6 or 7 year life span of the plot, your really saving only a couple bucks a year. That being said, for anyone working your own plots, you need to feel good about the products you choose so pick whats best for you. In many ways it's kinda like you telling me that i should only buy a Silverado when i already like my Ram. Plant what you like and have fun doing it. Thats what counts.