Night Vision or Thermal for predator hunting in NY?

[Big Cat!]

Hoping for some good feedback on Night Vision or Thermal scopes. I am considering purchasing either a night vision scope or thermal and am wondering if anyone has had experience with one or both. I hunt predators in the Southern tier of NY where I have fields, brush and woods. In reading briefly about both, it seems night vision scopes like the ATN X sight 4k Pro day/night scope will illuminate eyes out to 150 only unless you purchase their infrared illuminator that attaches and will give you an additional 100-200 yards of illumination. I also read and watched a few videos where heavy brush and tree branches hinder night vision where you might not see through to identify that there is a predator lurking. Whereas, with Thermal (ATN Thor LT 320 3 - 6x ) will provide more distance to pick up a predator so won't need to buy the off-market illuminator. Thermal seems to be able to see through brush at least for you to know a predator is there. I am on the fence to be honest as to which one would be better for the landscape of NY. I do hunt black dirt fields also which can be very big but majority of hunting is within fields 150-300 yards wide that have field edges with brush and trees leading into woods. In one of the videos it showed that night vision scopes will display the predator more clearly within the appropriate range. Any recommendations or feedback is appreciated. I currently use a Night Eyes Headlamp to scan or my fox pro hand scanner and a predator tactics coyote reaper scope light. I am not sure how far out a night vision scope will pick up a predator vs thermal. Thanks 

[Shoots100]

Depends on your budget.

Most start off with some type of NV scope and Thermal spotter combo first, then after a year or two, add a thermal scope.

Once you go thermal, it's all over for NV.

While I'm told that there are a few out of a thousand ATN NV and thermal scopes that may work good, most don't.

It's a roll of the dice that most lose. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Shoots100

[UpStateRedNeck]

I just geared up for NV, but you're pretty much spot on for its limitations.  Needed the IR spotter, but now it's good out to 300 in a field easy.  It does NOT penetrate brush.  Spots you could see through a few branches in daylight you won't be able to with the NV.

[moog5050]

Never tried NV.  I know some have great success with it.   I can confirm that it’s very easy to pick up dogs way farther than I can shoot with thermal.    

[Gencountyzeek]

Whats your budget? 

Nv in dense cover would be bad. With a good ir light you can seen yotes over 400 yards. Avoid ATN.

Trying to id with a cheap thermal is a bad. Again whats your budget? 

Look into Bering optics Hogster line, have read many good reviews. Or jump to Pulsar, avoid ATN.

[Gencountyzeek]

[Big Cat!]

On 1/30/2021 at 8:53 PM, Shoots100 said:

Depends on your budget.

Most start off with some type of NV scope and Thermal spotter combo first, then after a year or two, add a thermal scope.

Once you go thermal, it's all over for NV.

While I'm told that there are a few out of a thousand ATN NV and thermal scopes that may work good, most don't.

It's a roll of the dice that most lose. 

Thanks for the feedback......I figure thermal better than NV.

[Big Cat!]

On 1/31/2021 at 1:34 PM, Gencountyzeek said:

Whats your budget? 

Nv in dense cover would be bad. With a good ir light you can seen yotes over 400 yards. Avoid ATN.

Trying to id with a cheap thermal is a bad. Again whats your budget? 

Look into Bering optics Hogster line, have read many good reviews. Or jump to Pulsar, avoid ATN.

Not quite sure on budget range just yet. As a starter, would you recommend a thermal monocular then once identifying with that I use my predator tactics coyote reaper red light that is mounted to my scope to shoot? Or, go right with a Thermal scope? As I look at my hunting surrounding more and more, I would need something that can give me some sight through brush thus Thermal might be better. However, my current coyote reaper picks up eyes from 400 yards not that I generally have that much area to work with but it does. How far does thermal pick up an animal> I would like at least 200 yards. Any particular one out there that fits that model?

[Gencountyzeek]

4 hours ago, Big Cat! said:

Not quite sure on budget range just yet. As a starter, would you recommend a thermal monocular then once identifying with that I use my predator tactics coyote reaper red light that is mounted to my scope to shoot? Or, go right with a Thermal scope? As I look at my hunting surrounding more and more, I would need something that can give me some sight through brush thus Thermal might be better. However, my current coyote reaper picks up eyes from 400 yards not that I generally have that much area to work with but it does. How far does thermal pick up an animal> I would like at least 200 yards. Any particular one out there that fits that model?

Id look at the new agm taipan series of thermal scanners. U will definitely be able to pick up heat over 400 yards out. With my agm tm25-384 ive picked up a yote out around 1000 yards, obviously not id a yote until 300 yards.

[Shoots100]

11 hours ago, Big Cat! said:

Not quite sure on budget range just yet. As a starter, would you recommend a thermal monocular then once identifying with that I use my predator tactics coyote reaper red light that is mounted to my scope to shoot? Or, go right with a Thermal scope? As I look at my hunting surrounding more and more, I would need something that can give me some sight through brush thus Thermal might be better. However, my current coyote reaper picks up eyes from 400 yards not that I generally have that much area to work with but it does. How far does thermal pick up an animal> I would like at least 200 yards. Any particular one out there that fits that model?

You cannot compare a red light or even night vision to a thermals capabilities.

Thermal has it's limitations, as it cannot see through brush, glass, or walls.

Most midrange thermals can detect out to and past 1,000 yards.

What the blob is at 1,000 yards is the question, but you know there's something alive there.

The more you spend, the better the resolution and that will enable you to take longer shot's.

I'm going to be receiving an AGM Taipan TM15 monocular this Tuesday.

After testing and evaluating their 160 and 384 unit's, I bought a TM15 for my own personnel use.

I've recommended the AGM ASP Micro TM384 monocular to many and all that have purchased one have been more than happy with those units.

For now, you can get a thermal monocular for spotting and use the red light for engaging targets.

I would then save up for a Bering optics Super hogster, or the R35 hogster, if you don't want to record your hunt's.

As of now, those two scopes offer the best bang for your buck and have been field proven.

Though it can be done, You don't want to be using your rifle scope for double duty as a scope and spotter.

It's not safe, especially if it's mounted on the rifle and your pointing at objects you don't ever want to point a loaded rifle at.

Check out those and other unit's in your price range before making a decision.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Shoots100

[Shoots100]

Here's a short video of a doe at 50 yards.

Clarity looking through it is way better than the video.

 

[Shoots100]

Here's another doe at 25 yards.

I didn't see the other doe's head to the left in the first couple of seconds till I reviewed the footage.

This is an awesome monocular and beat NV or any light that's out there.

 

[Shoots100]

Another TM15 video.

At base mag, it has a wide FOV, that's perfect for spotting critters in close quarters and wooded terrain.

 

[Shoots100]

Here are the specs of the AGM Taipan TM15-384.

Very impressive numbers for the price.

Interface	USB Type-C
Pixel Interval	12 μm
Multi Language menu	Yes
Drop Test Height	1.5 m (4.9 feet)
Detector type	Vanadium Oxide Uncooled Focal Plane Arrays
Response Waveband	8μm to 14μm
FFC (Flat Field Correction)	Auto, Manual, External Correction
Highest Temperature Spot Tracking	Yes
Standby Mode	Yes
Refresh rate	50 Hz
Aperture	F1.0
Resolution	384×288
Detection Range	708 m
NETD	Less than 35 mk (@25°C), F#=1.0
Lens (focal length)	15 mm
Power	5 VDC/2 A, 1.5 W
Field of view (H × X)	17.5° × 13.1°
Digital zoom	2×, 4×, 8×
Monitor	1280×960, 0.4 inch, LCOS
Imaging palettes	Black Hot, White Hot, Red Hot, Fusion
Storage	Built-in memory module (8 GB)
Record Video	On-board video recording
Capture Snapshot	Yes
Battery Type	Built-in rechargeable Lithium battery
Wi-Fi	Yes
CVBS Output	Yes (via USB)
Battery Operating Time	More than 7.5 hours continuous running (with Wi-Fi hotspot function off)
Battery Capacity Display	Yes
Weight	290 g (0.64 lb)
Working Temperature/ Humidity	-20°C to 55°C (-4°F to 131°F)
Overall Dimensions	158 × 61 × 57 mm (6.23 × 2.4 × 2.2 in)
Protection Level	IP67

 

[Shoots100]

Here's a short clip of my setter at 10 yards.

No lag with movement and very good definition, even in his reflection off the pc of stainless steel I have on the bottom of my front door.