Antler restrictions success? ?

[dbHunterNY]

Everyone of you quoting numbers; where did your data come from? Oh...

No one sees deer, dec says they're there in prolific numbers but it was warm so your observations don't count and we know how many living does there are based off the number of bucks killed within our magic boundaries...... Ugh..... Are you guys really that gullible?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

numbers didn't seem down much at all from last year.  there is some validity with the warm weather and deer sightings though.  it effected the deer in my area.  so I can get a better idea of what's coming into the fields, i'd stay until after dark and have someone drive up to clear the field and get me.  I ended up hunting other spots that I normally wouldn't, don't usually produce deer, and would be bitterly cold.  as soon as that happened sightings were through the roof.  some of their numbers just don't make sense though.  by prolific I assume you mean certain areas that they're claiming are over populated.  state wide they're saying they think deer numbers are down more than 15%.

[gjs4]

But, But it's in the numbers ,they give us the numbers. We should live by their numbers. Our boots on the ground observations can not compare to their sit at the desk and guess approach can it.

Live and act by your numbers.

You don't shop for cars and groceries based off what the national economic averages are do you?

The dec has a tough job. The dec is not all that great at their job though either. They'll say we can't do this for other states found failure in it but then out of the other corner say other states found fault in that why would we do that.

In my opinion, the game is to limit the negative impacts of deer on the general populous not much more or less

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[gjs4]

numbers didn't seem down much at all from last year. there is some validity with the warm weather and deer sightings though. it effected the deer in my area. so I can get a better idea of what's coming into the fields, i'd stay until after dark and have someone drive up to clear the field and get me. I ended up hunting other spots that I normally wouldn't, don't usually produce deer, and would be bitterly cold. as soon as that happened sightings were through the roof. some of their numbers just don't make sense though. by prolific I assume you mean certain areas that they're claiming are over populated. state wide they're saying they think deer numbers are down more than 15%.

I just don't believe their numbers are accurate enough. Zero faith in the buck take being ~50% 2.5 or older

We had two record setting winters from a realistic severity index back to back here were I live. It walloped the herd. To still be in first or second place for dmps offered is ridiculous. To say the deer numbers are too high in this area is ridiculous.

Agreed the warmer temps had an effect on natural deer movement but it also brings more hunters out. Food sources may differ but the basics of the season function the same.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[chas0218]

numbers didn't seem down much at all from last year.  there is some validity with the warm weather and deer sightings though.  it effected the deer in my area.  so I can get a better idea of what's coming into the fields, i'd stay until after dark and have someone drive up to clear the field and get me.  I ended up hunting other spots that I normally wouldn't, don't usually produce deer, and would be bitterly cold.  as soon as that happened sightings were through the roof.  some of their numbers just don't make sense though.  by prolific I assume you mean certain areas that they're claiming are over populated.  state wide they're saying they think deer numbers are down more than 15%.

I don't think the weather played as big a role as people are thinking. The deer just aren't there. I sat on stand in 2 different WMU's 1 being near my home (8X) another being at my parent's place (8F). At 8X I saw just as many deer as usual at 8F I didn't see anything near the numbers I had last year. I put in more seat time in 8F than any years past just to get a look at a good buck. I bow and gun hunt with 3 to 4 cameras in various locations.

 

Here is what I observed in 8F, 4 bucks (ranging from spike to the 10 point i was after) and 5 doe (not inlcuding fawns 3 of them). So on our property 140 acres that covers over 1 square mile I saw 12 deer. In the past 2 years I have saw over of 20 while on stand in 1 evening. For them to tell me numbers in my area have gone up is bogus.

 

In 8X it was the same old story 5 deer, 1 doe 2 fawns and 2 bucks all season long all that were shot by neighboring properties this was on a 300 acre tract of land.

 

I have dedicated countless hours scouting locations for stands and have proven to be a proficient hunter with the "trophies" I have killed and the amount of meat I have in my freezer so take it for what it is worth but I don't believe the numbers that DEC puts out. When it comes to ARs they work no matter which way you try and cut it.

 

Here is what I would like to see ARs temporary for 5 years no exceptions, if they work keep them if not get rid of them then everyone can be happy blasting button bucks and spikes again.

Edited June 1, 2016 by chas0218

[growalot]

Camp is in 8X...the guys didn't shoot a single deer all season. They did see a good number but nothing in range and those in range too small...The old guard is gone and the knew won't shoot anything that moves..Coyotes,bear and bob cat #'s are all up...loggers came in and took most mature white Oak in our 8X valley/hills. There is little Ag. land and over run with invasive buck thorn...no wonder deer #'s are down.

[dbHunterNY]

I just don't believe their numbers are accurate enough. Zero faith in the buck take being ~50% 2.5 or older

We had two record setting winters from a realistic severity index back to back here were I live. It walloped the herd. To still be in first or second place for dmps offered is ridiculous. To say the deer numbers are too high in this area is ridiculous.

Agreed the warmer temps had an effect on natural deer movement but it also brings more hunters out. Food sources may differ but the basics of the season function the same.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

 

I don't think the weather played as big a role as people are thinking. The deer just aren't there. I sat on stand in 2 different WMU's 1 being near my home (8X) another being at my parent's place (8F). At 8X I saw just as many deer as usual at 8F I didn't see anything near the numbers I had last year. I put in more seat time in 8F than any years past just to get a look at a good buck. I bow and gun hunt with 3 to 4 cameras in various locations.

 

Here is what I observed in 8F, 4 bucks (ranging from spike to the 10 point i was after) and 5 doe (not inlcuding fawns 3 of them). So on our property 140 acres that covers over 1 square mile I saw 12 deer. In the past 2 years I have saw over of 20 while on stand in 1 evening. For them to tell me numbers in my area have gone up is bogus.

 

In 8X it was the same old story 5 deer, 1 doe 2 fawns and 2 bucks all season long all that were shot by neighboring properties this was on a 300 acre tract of land.

 

I have dedicated countless hours scouting locations for stands and have proven to be a proficient hunter with the "trophies" I have killed and the amount of meat I have in my freezer so take it for what it is worth but I don't believe the numbers that DEC puts out. When it comes to ARs they work no matter which way you try and cut it.

 

Here is what I would like to see ARs temporary for 5 years no exceptions, if they work keep them if not get rid of them then everyone can be happy blasting button bucks and spikes again.

GMan pointed out the same problem... they're DEC and their data is geared toward looking at the big picture of NY as a whole.  As your area of focus gets smaller Pockets where their data says the population is X number of deer could be way off.  the applicable sample size the data came from is no longer as useful because you need more of it.  in say 8X bob can see loads of deer on one side of the valley and john could see none on the other.  DEC's view is as if what bob sees is distributed evenly john.  john then says DEC is full of crap.  I can't say what's in those WMU's because I don't hunt there.  If DEC is going to have a better idea of what's going on in these WMU's that they manage separately for population, things need to change.  more people need to report their harvests, do bowhunter sighting logs, and anything else that'll give DEC more and accurate data.

 

with the buck take for yearlings I'm not so sure I believe it either.  there's a lot of factors that could skew that.  for example hunters are almost always willing to pass yearling bucks in the beginning of the season when there's still hope and weather is warm.  as the season drags on their a little more willing to shoot whatever is legal.  the weather is colder then too allowing more time to process a deer yourself.  also due to pressure yearlings are more visible then wiser older bucks.  so there could be logic that meat processors, that are a heavily relied on source for DEC data, aren't seeing a good portion of the yearling bucks being taken.  that's only one monkey wrench and I've about many more.  I agree with both of you.  there's room for improvement, but how much is needed who the heck knows.

[dbHunterNY]

Camp is in 8X...the guys didn't shoot a single deer all season. They did see a good number but nothing in range and those in range too small...The old guard is gone and the knew won't shoot anything that moves..Coyotes,bear and bob cat #'s are all up...loggers came in and took most mature white Oak in our 8X valley/hills. There is little Ag. land and over run with invasive buck thorn...no wonder deer #'s are down.

 

predators are always a lagging indicator of population trend.  when predators are way up it means the deer were up.  at some point, apparently now, the deer population goes down while you still see and wait for the predator numbers to do the same.  could take a while though they have much more of an effect on deer population by taking fawns than the occasional healthy adult deer.  mature oaks produce less cover and less mast.  that'll always help the population I think.

[G-Man]

As for their average od bucks per square mile, my numbers at camp this year 10 buck, and 6 doe.. of the buck 4 were 2.5 or older, 5 were 1.5 and one was a button, which goes in their doe (anterless take. ) that's off 200 acres, there are 640 acres to a square mile, so I can assume then my buck take is 18.75 bucks be square mile.. they dec estimate for my wmu is 4 per square mile.. now if I add in the neighbors bucks I know of our take for a square mile was 19. But that is averaged out over thousands of acres.. I don't know how they can manage any population with their sheer guesstimates....

[Four Season Whitetail's]

predators are always a lagging indicator of population trend.  when predators are way up it means the deer were up.  at some point, apparently now, the deer population goes down while you still see and wait for the predator numbers to do the same.  could take a while though they have much more of an effect on deer population by taking fawns than the occasional healthy adult deer.  mature oaks produce less cover and less mast.  that'll always help the population I think.

Ha dont try and tell the couple Yote experts on here that they could have any effect on your deer numbers. That stuff just dont happen!

[growalot]

 

mature oaks produce less cover and less mast.  that'll always help the population I think.

that may be true though, it is only good if the tree species and ground cover that regenerate are good...in the area we are in you don't' see nice patches of wild berry and grasses... there are not many maple trees...iron wood, beech, pines and wild apples but the thorn apple and buck thorn invade everything. That and wild rose....nothing grows under buckthorn and it's dang near impossible to kill...Steep terrain and underground streams abound. We do have a lot of red oak though. 8 X has always had lower #'s for doe tags I remember when we had to have 3-4 guys on a tag at camp. The winter deer (fawn ) kill was so bad one year I called the DEC to report the dead deer on the ground one spring...We were lucky to get one tag per person there and a couple didn't get that.

[growalot]

 

the knew

 The new

[dbHunterNY]

that may be true though, it is only good if the tree species and ground cover that regenerate are good...in the area we are in you don't' see nice patches of wild berry and grasses... there are not many maple trees...iron wood, beech, pines and wild apples but the thorn apple and buck thorn invade everything. That and wild rose....nothing grows under buckthorn and it's dang near impossible to kill...Steep terrain and underground streams abound. We do have a lot of red oak though. 8 X has always had lower #'s for doe tags I remember when we had to have 3-4 guys on a tag at camp. The winter deer (fawn ) kill was so bad one year I called the DEC to report the dead deer on the ground one spring...We were lucky to get one tag per person there and a couple didn't get that.

The party doe permits were more common years ago. Since then the population has came back in most of the state, so there's no reason to have them anymore. It's harder to get DMPs for 4C with second tag nonexistent. We still take a fair share of doe though. DEC sees doe take then sees we didn't meet buck take objective that was set based agenda and not just for deer. Also don't have a good way to factor in passing of yearlings that skews perception of deer actually being there.

End result we get less tags for the same size deer population.