Doc

I was there right in the middle of the compound fight, and I remember that the prime argument against compounds was that it was the first step toward inclusion of all kinds of things that were never intended to be called bowhunting. The argument was that it would serve as a precedent. I was all for compounds, and pretty much brushed that argument aside. Well imagine my surprise when here today, I see that they were absolutely correct. The compound set a precedent where just about anything can now be included in bow season. Lets look at all of the things that have been added since the compound and can anyone argue that the compound is now the primary precedent for the justification of the crossbow. I don't think so. Just take a look at the reply just before this one. So yet another precedent has been established for incorporating more and more weapons that simply are not bows. Now in the Northern Zone, bows and muzzleloaders are used side by side.....firearms inclusion in a bow season. The late bow season also now hosts muzzle loaders. Another precedent has been established and accepted. So now the DEC has pretty much accepted that whenever they get a bug up their butt, muzzleloader inclusion is on the table anywhere they decide to include it ..... bowhunters be damned. Why not ..... the precedent has been set and accepted. So, is it really all that far before rifles are accepted? Oh wait, that precedent has been set also. Yes, I have to admit I was wrong. Those old-timers that argued against the compound were right. There is something to that precedent thing and there is proof now. We don't lose anything all at once. It is always through a bite her and a bite there. but the result comes out the same.

So many things to do and such an insufficient amount of time to do it. Yeah, we have all kinds of people trying to tell us all about what good citizens must do on a daily basis to remain good citizens. We are preached at, cajoled, told we have no rights to opinions because we don't devote our entire lives (and then some) to studying, and researching and spying on those agencies that are supposedly charged with carrying out the duties that they are paid for. But the truth is that even those doing the preaching have not reached expert status on all those things that we are supposed to be keeping track of. How do I know that? ..... Simple, there are not enough hours in a day to become subject experts on all those disciplines that we are supposed to become experts at.

Yes, lets get rid of special seasons altogether, and give hunters complete choice of weapons with no restrictions. That seems to be what everyone wants anyway. The heck with bowhunters and muzzleloader hunters. If they want to use the special weapons, let them all use it during the regular "Anything Goes Season". Eliminate all special privileges and exclusionary seasons and turn the bow season and muzzleloader special seasons over to whoever wants to use it.

I fish there every year at a place that we call The West River Marina ( it was a marina at one time). There are times when the bullheads and/or crappies are biting like crazy. But you have to catch it at just the right time (which doesn't last very long. So far I haven't heard of anyone getting a lot of them yet. Also, DEC has dug canals and ponds out in the West River swamp that can occasionally get you a bunch of them. Favorite bait years ago was big pollywogs (illegal if they have legs I've been told). We used to clean up on them. But there is another case where a light casting arm is essential.

That brings another thing has come to mind regarding activism. Statistics show that as population segment, most of us are getting a lot older, with some changes in passions and energy levels. Yes there are some issues that hit my hot buttons, and do edge hunting issues up the list of priorities a bit. I will say that the Safe Law got me pumped up pretty good, but that is a constitutional issue and probably does deserve a higher level on my priorities. Straight deer management issues don't even come close to that one. But over all, I am not as excitable as I used to be, and age probably has a factor in that. So I no longer feel that I have to attend every meeting that someone wants to hold.

I think that most lost the whole point of this thread. As I went through the endless partial list of some real important responsibilities that we have as citizens and parents and providers, the thing is that it is absolutely impossible to be expert at all of these things. It is impossible to be the ultimate "joiners" and activists. And so you really do have to prioritize and accept that not every important issue is going to receive its maximum amount of your attention. And so you have to prioritize. So the question is just where does deer management education sit on your list of priorities amongst all the truly important civic and personal activities and events and areas of study in your life? Perhaps 64 attendees was not really all that bad.

That's great for the cities and suburbs but lets consider an armful of counties and the jillions acres that the DEC is responsible for managing. No hunters .... No population cuts.

I took note of the deer hunter attendance reported at a recent deer management seminar. The number was something like 64? That number indicates that hunters pretty much sat this one out. Shame on us .....right? We are a pretty opinionated, passionate bunch of people, so why do such activities draw such feeble attendance. I think I know. If we were to attend all the functions and do research and join all the advocacy groups, and research all the political and responsible things that we as good citizens are expected to do, there truly would be no time left in the day to live out our lives. Think about it. All kinds of informative meetings take place many times a year. Elections and campaigns are all things that require intense research, local, state and federal. We literally have thousands of politicians and agencies to keep tabs on. We have school boards and teachers to keep our eyes on. We have judicial branches to keep abreast of. The list of responsibilities that the average citizen is expected to maintain an expert status on is limitless. And if you do not maintain a constant vigil on all of these necessary forces in our lives, you will get chastised and told that you have no right to an opinion if we have not performed the due diligence in becoming expert on all things going on around you. And yet we also have occupations that we are supposed to be expert at so that we can earn a living. We have children to raise, we have homes and personal finance that also require infinite attention. What I am describing is an impossible list of responsibilities that no one who is honest really does a complete job on. Oh, and if you plan on doing any kind of recreation like the hunting itself, well sorry, no time left for that..... too many things that require your intense attention. Well given that impressive and infinitely long list of required attention to all things around us, where do you suppose that a deer management seminar sits on a persons list of priorities? Anybody surprised that only 64 people decided to bump their deer management understanding up to top priority for the night? If you didn't go should you now be considered muzzled from expressing any opinions? What do all of you do to be expert on all things so that your opinion is valued as credible commentary?

And yet we have Jeremy Hurst stating that there is no deer management purpose served by ARs, and that it is really a socially inspired activity (paraphrased quotes since I don't remember the exact wording), and yet several more areas have been added to antler restriction sections. To me that sounds exactly like catering to hunter expectations. So while I kind of agree with your statement in principle, I am not sure that the DEC really does in practice. Now, with that all said, I do have to say that as long as hunters are the only realistic tool in the DEC tool-chest for managing deer populations. And with that tool being currently diminished in number and enthusiasm, they do have to be somewhat concerned with hunter recruitment and maintenance. I would guess that it is not in their best interest to be excessively irritating hunters or adopting policies that drive more hunters out of the activity.

The difference between a broken leg and a tragic death in this case boils down to pure luck. This could have turned out far worse (as if breaking someone's keg is trivial), and personal injury due to an illegal act cannot be sloughed off with a pat on the wrist. There is not a lot of difference between using a gun, knife, club, ......... or two tons of powered steel. Certainly we who are comfortably sitting in front of our computers can have the luxury of being benevolent and magnanimous, but what if it were our bones that were so callously smashed? Frankly, I am quite tired of making excuses for the misbehavior of youngsters. Especially misbehavior that causes personal injury to others that are simply doing their job.

Eddie, our prayers are with you and your family.

Ok, Here's the good news. When he is out of the country, he is not screwing up our lives with his leftist legislation. That's good! if it takes family accompaniment to get him away from us, it is truly a good investment. Now what will it take to get all of congress on an all expense paid, year long, vacation to somewhere? .....Anywhere!

Actually, I have a hard time understanding how anyone thinks they can change the stance of NYB from the outside looking in. If you have a beef with NYB policies, I would think you might actually get in there and try to change the policies that you disagree with and support the ones that you do agree with. As far as the thread topic is concerned, NYB has experience in that area, and perhaps instead of everyone trying to think of ways to do the same thing individually, you might think that supporting an existing organization would be a shortcut to making that happen where you live and would like to hunt.

Anybody who has a pulse can understand what the Trump bandwagon is all about. If you have ever even glanced at your income tax returns you should have an inkling of what it costs in terms of working hours to finance reckless tax-and-spend financial domination that our government hands us, without apology. If you have been around long enough, you probably recall times that were less invasive into your wallet, and it all becomes plain to you whenever you look at the taxes that show up at the bottom of every bill for everything you buy. Perhaps you start wondering why no one has ever done anything about run-abroad jobs that are even encouraged by law to head for foreign companies. Maybe you have watched U.S. spawned technology being handed over to third world countries so they can easily compete and beat us at our own game. Now even corporate headquarters are heading over seas in the corporate version of legalized tax evasion. Have you ever become upset over the new urban warfare from foreign sources? Does it make you want to have someone do something effective about it? You have the country literally imploding before our eyes, with government officials turning a blind eye, or even participating in it as it runs rampant. Do you take any note of the almost daily episodes of legislators involved in corruption and graft? Does that bother you? Have you reached the point where you are starting to feel helpless? Is it becoming clear to you that we are now working for the government instead of that system serving us? Well, I think most of the country has taken note of the impending demise of this country and are basically shouting out their window, "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore!" That is what explains Trump. Every election comes down to Tweedle-Dee vs. Tweedle-Dum. It is always choices between career politicians whose only differences are which one can dig up the most dirt on the other. You always have to hold your nose and vote for the lesser of two evils. Well this election is different. There is a candidate that is not part of the political status quo. This guy comes from outside the establishment and is prepared to do open battle with them (something we all wish we had the time and resources to do ourselves). Yup, he stumbles and bumbles his way along because he has not been trained by the party hacks. He sometimes make us wonder if maybe he is a bit too much. But the bottom line is that he is putting muscle to the issues that bother us daily. Desperation drives us to support someone that will take on the system and break the cycle, if for no other reason than a protest vote to let the politicians of the country understand that we really are mad as hell and unwilling to passively take it anymore. This will be the "shake-up vote" that sends messages that the country's citizens are getting restless and are ready for change and for heads to roll. If you are a business-as-usual politician, take note. Someone is coming for you and your world may never be the same (or as comfortable). Take time to understand what explains a Trump candidacy. Love him or hate him, it would be prudent to understand exactly where he is coming from and why he resonates with such a huge quantity of people.

I have built one of those poles with a spike on the end for grabbing up papers and cups and discarded bottles and even pop-cans from the ditches and woods-edges along a couple of miles of our road that I tend to annually. It's pretty handy for reaching across water filled ditches and saves the back from all that stooping over....lol. It is amazing just what kinds of pigs travel our roads. Most of what I pick up, were not mistakenly blown out of people's hands and out the window. They were purposely thrown there with no care about dirtying their own environment. Do these people throw their crap around at home and in their own yard? Probably not, so they do know better.

Back in the day before all the posted signs, I do remember times when I had absolutely no idea whose property I was on. There was no Google maps or hand-held location devices. There were miles of featureless forested areas with no clues as to where you are, or who owns the land. Of course the good news back then was that the landowners really didn't give a damn if you were there or not anyways....lol. Today, for those that have the devices, I suppose there are ways of getting to identify land, but not everybody owns that kind of equipment. Since people today do care about visitors on their property (and many times for good reason) I personally am very thankful for well posted land.

You have done a good job of explaining why I should be dead or seriously debilitated by all these years of chonking on lead shot, but have failed to answer why we are not. Maybe I can expect that I and all of my hunter acquaintances can expect to be seeing severe neurological symptoms of lead poisoning any day now, because so far none of it has shown up yet. 72 years of exposure so far has not done us in yet, but maybe 73 is the magic number....eh? Oh, and why are you assuming that country kids were not finding any lead based paints in those old farm-houses? Our old farm-house had layers upon layers of old nasty paint on every window and door jamb and I will guarantee that every layer was lead based paint. Perhaps we should have been laced with higher lead levels, but that does not mean that it had anything to do with eating large quantities of wild game that had been killed with lead shot. That simply shows how easy it is to get faulty studies (accidentally or purposefully) when you misinterpret causes and effects.

As far as I'm concerned, all immigration should be tightened up and in these days of danger coming from every direction. Extra scrutiny of all immigrants and visitors is prudent regardless of origin, race, religion, or whatever. ISIS comes in many forms and cloaked in many strange scenarios. We can't continue to simply cross our fingers and hope that those that come into this country are all U.S. lovers and wish us well.

In answer to your question, I absolutely would unless you are talking about molding the meat over a lead bar. Now would you do me the courtesy of answering my question as to how it is that I and millions of others over the centuries have consumed literally tons and tons of lead-shot killed game without ever having been diagnosed with lead poisoning. I'm not advocating anything, or trying to change anyone's mind. I simply, as before, am asking a question. Frankly I believe it is a reasonable question that any open-minded person should at least be a little curious about.

You left out the mike Rossi persona who resorts to personal attacks and made up views and opinions of others when he has run out of sensible arguments. This non-reply reply is about as ridiculous a rant as I have seen on this forum so far. Your "list of offenses according to Mike" are quite a collection of fantasies. I realize that you get extremely bent out of shape when people ignore your non-stop dove hunting rants, but that is no excuse for lying about people's views on hunting issues. The only one of those lies that you actually got right was my opposition to the pheasant stocking program (not that that has a damn thing to do with this topic). You seem to lose control whenever anyone asks questions, and instantly assume that as opposition. Well, here's a newsflash for you, if I happen to ask questions that does not mean that I am in opposition, but of course you know that don't you? That kind of dishonesty serves no one and does not lend credibility to your arguments even though it is obvious that that is your hope. Someday you may learn the difference between discussing issues and trying to ram them down the throats of others through lies and filibuster. So take your little list of whiney misrepresentations and roll them up real tight and ......................try to adopt a forum style that has a bit of honesty and integrity.

There is no exaggeration in my age, or the fact that there is no perceptible or doctor-diagnosed evidence of lead poisoning. Yes had I spent my childhood gnawing on lead painted window sills or chewing on lead pipes or drinking water that was tainted with lead or any other toxin, the story might have been different, but I am simply asking a question out of idle curiosity.....what makes this old critter such an amazing survivor that I have been able to fight off the so-called guaranteed death sentence of eating animals shot with lead shot and bullets and slugs? At my age, I have a doctor that regularly monitors all aspects of my health, and I have yet to hear, " Gosh Doc, if only you hadn't have eaten so much lead shot game all your life you may have lived a few more years". I am not really trying to refute anything, but I have to say that simple curiosity forces one to ask these kinds of questions.

I guess I am taking a bit more global view of oil prices vs. the overall global economy. While the oil industry s indeed huge, the vast majority of contributors to the economy are all the users of oil who benefit from cheap raw materials such as oil. Those are the ones that expand and cause growth in times of low material costs, I would think.

Maybe it's time for you guys to take your personal bickering off-line. When you get that involved in personal attacks, maybe you should really keep it personal.... as in just between each other.

I have been eating small game killed with lead shot for 72 years now and probably a considerable amount more than most people. So exactly when are all these tragic health disasters supposed to strike?

Yes, falling oil prices may be a sign of a weakening economy (or an unnatural glut of oil), but falling oil prices are not a cause of a bad economy. Oil is a raw material for products, transport, and living. operating with lower overhead does anything but stifle business and economy. I will say that things look a little different if you are involved directly in production. But for the vast majority of the rest of the world, I have a hard time understanding why we would ever welcome or wish for higher oil prices. That simply equates to a higher cost of living....right? Perhaps there is some economic principal there that is eluding me but I am all for low prices of any product especially something as central to the cost of goods and services. Not trying to argue .... just trying to understand.